Why keep arguing, NO FALL SOCCER!

Anon9 said:
There are those that want soccer back. There are those that want schools back. For most of California, neither will happen this Fall. I predict there will be no soccer next Spring either, or at least until there is a vaccine. With that being said, why keep arguing with the crowd that wants to keep us shut down. They will win every time. This shutdown has no end in sight. Stop getting worked up with an argument we’ll never win. Do your thing, nobody needs to know. Travel to out of state tournaments, such as Arizona. Look for crazy soccer parents that want soccer just as much as you do, they are out there and plentiful. But most importantly, stop giving the shutdown crowd more ammo to make us look dumb and crazy. According to them, what we are doing is criminal. I would say what they are doing is cynical and hypocritical. Good luck to all and keep ballin, kids need it, but we need it more. And who are they to take that away from us.
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Do you still feel this way? Vaccine is coming sooner rather then laters brah!!! Follow the rules and be a good example so when you want others to follow your rules, they have to. It's simple actually if you think about it. Big Ten is balling now too. I predict California will have ball in the fall and next Spring. That is where I stand today. I hope I'm right and I hope your wrong. Somewhere in da middle works for me too :)
 
Desert Hound said:
At some point people are going to wake up and realize we are going to have to live with this. It is not going away, nor is it going away anytime soon.

As Fauci said we are looking at end of 2021 or early 2022 before we might get close to normal again according to what they want to do.

We are moving into fall and flu season and likely covid comes back again. Based on the way CA and a lot of states want to do things, that means increasing restrictions again.

School on and off
Biz some open (partially), some not allowed
Etc

We cannot continue on like this.
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We can. And we will. We’re stupid like that.

I want us to close dangerous places, like restaurants, so that we reduce Rt and the disease can’t spread. We won’t do that.

You want us to open it all up, get sick, and recover. We won’t do that, either.

Instead, we will open up halfway, but not by risk. We will make decisions based on political power and sales tax. We’ll close the cheap things, like outdoor parks. And open the expensive things, like amusement parks, theaters, motorcycle rallies, and casinos.

Then we’ll pretend to be surprised when our numbers get worse after we open Disneyland.

We’re stupid like that.
 
dad4 said:
We can. And we will. We’re stupid like that.

I want us to close dangerous places, like restaurants, so that we reduce Rt and the disease can’t spread. We won’t do that.

You want us to open it all up, get sick, and recover. We won’t do that, either.

Instead, we will open up halfway, but not by risk. We will make decisions based on political power and sales tax. We’ll close the cheap things, like outdoor parks. And open the expensive things, like amusement parks, theaters, motorcycle rallies, and casinos.

Then we’ll pretend to be surprised when our numbers get worse after we open Disneyland.

We’re stupid like that.
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Disney world in Florida has been open for over a month. Did the numbers get worse? Since we're making assumptions, lets look at what really happened.
 
jimlewis said:
Disney world in Florida has been open for over a month. Did the numbers get worse? Since we're making assumptions, lets look at what really happened.
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I’m not sure we know. Given the size of the spike in Florida and the percentage of out of state guests, would you even notice an extra 200 cases per day coming out of Orlando? Especially if 150 of them don’t get tested until they get back home?

We knew that Sturgis was a stupid idea a month before it happened. We didn’t have to actually do it to find out.
 
Desert Hound said:
At some point people are going to wake up and realize we are going to have to live with this. It is not going away, nor is it going away anytime soon.

As Fauci said we are looking at end of 2021 or early 2022 before we might get close to normal again according to what they want to do.

We are moving into fall and flu season and likely covid comes back again. Based on the way CA and a lot of states want to do things, that means increasing restrictions again.

School on and off
Biz some open (partially), some not allowed
Etc

We cannot continue on like this.
Click to expand...

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jimlewis said:
Disney world in Florida has been open for over a month. Did the numbers get worse? Since we're making assumptions, lets look at what really happened.
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San Diego is going to close because of a spike of 22 cases in a college. Ventura County because of an outbreak in the jail. California's test is that sensitive.

Even a moderate outbreak of employees at Disneyland will be enough to close up the OC and schools again under the tests. DW in Florida only works because Florida decided to accept the risk. We are opening Disneyland but California isn't prepared to accept the risk, which is a recipe for disaster and recriminations. Disneyland is also worse than Disneyworld because Disneyland is a park geared primarily to locals, while Disneyworld is primarily built for tourists (who would take their counts home, not to Orlando)
 
Grace T. said:
San Diego is going to close because of a spike of 22 cases in a college. Ventura County because of an outbreak in the jail. California's test is that sensitive.

Even a moderate outbreak of employees at Disneyland will be enough to close up the OC and schools again under the tests. DW in Florida only works because Florida decided to accept the risk. We are opening Disneyland but California isn't prepared to accept the risk, which is a recipe for disaster and recriminations. Disneyland is also worse than Disneyworld because Disneyland is a park geared primarily to locals, while Disneyworld is primarily built for tourists (who would take their counts home, not to Orlando)
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San Jose is keeping colleges closed, pretty much for that reason. If you open colleges, you will get parties, and you will get outbreaks. Double that if you have frats. So we chose just to keep it closed. (or the supes chose for us.)
 
dad4 said:
San Jose is keeping colleges closed, pretty much for that reason. If you open colleges, you will get parties, and you will get outbreaks. Double that if you have frats. So we chose just to keep it closed. (or the supes chose for us.)
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The funny thing is AZ has opened up our universities. Did so early Aug.

Our bars and restaurants have been up and running for a long time.

Our kids have been playing sports since early August end of July.

A number of schools have been open now for some time with full classrooms.

And yet we see cases continue to decline. We see deaths continue to decline.
 
dad4 said:
I’m not sure we know. Given the size of the spike in Florida and the percentage of out of state guests, would you even notice an extra 200 cases per day coming out of Orlando? Especially if 150 of them don’t get tested until they get back home?

We knew that Sturgis was a stupid idea a month before it happened. We didn’t have to actually do it to find out.
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WDW has been open for 2 months, daily virus cases in Florida dropped from a high of 15000 on July 12 to 3000 per day now.

www.ocregister.com

Largest U.S. theme parks report no COVID-19 outbreaks since reopening

No outbreaks have been reported at Disney, Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, Six Flags, Legoland and Cedar Fair parks in Florida, Texas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, Virginia and Mic…
www.ocregister.com www.ocregister.com

Understand they opened with distance and mask requirements, as well as reduced crowds. So if people are required to follow rules and they actually follow the rules, things can open and cases can drop.
 
Desert Hound said:
The funny thing is AZ has opened up our universities. Did so early Aug.

Our bars and restaurants have been up and running for a long time.

Our kids have been playing sports since early August end of July.

A number of schools have been open now for some time with full classrooms.

And yet we see cases continue to decline. We see deaths continue to decline.
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And you have twice as many deaths per capita. You keep forgetting to mention that part. Your state killed thousands of elderly residents so you could have beer and pizza in the restaurant.

If you think a high death rate is inevitable, the offer to bet a case of IPA is still open. If CA ever matches or passes AZ in covid deaths per capita, I’ll buy you a case of IPA. If the vaccine comes first, you buy me a case.
 
OK here is some food for thought.

1. What is interesting to see is how W. Europe has done vs E. Europe.
2. I doubt anyone thinks that in general E Europe has better medical care, more efficient governments in terms of setting policies, etc. And yet look at how much better they have done vs W Europe. Or maybe it is more accurate to say how differently the virus acted in that region vs W Europe.

Have they done better in terms of response? Or do other factors make the difference? I lean heavily towards other reasons. Climate, populations (some immunity, etc). For reference take a look at Africa as well. Experts assumed they would be hammered and yet that has not come to pass.

It seems the virus acts differently depending on region, climate, population more so vs what the gov have actually done.

It is interesting to see on the Euro continent how differently the virus affected different regions.

Western Europe
177,947 deaths
413,461,656 population
Deaths 430 per million

Eastern Europe
36,058 deaths
331,085,712 population
Deaths 109 per million
 
We are opening schools to a hybrid model next week. My gut tells me we will see a spike of cases due to this, and get rolled back again. At some point we/they/whomever needs to decide if the open/closing of schools as cases are discovered is still better than a stable distance model.
 
dad4 said:
And you have twice as many deaths per capita. You keep forgetting to mention that part. Your state killed thousands of elderly residents so you could have beer and pizza in the restaurant.

If you think a high death rate is inevitable, the offer to bet a case of IPA is still open. If CA ever matches or passes AZ in covid deaths per capita, I’ll buy you a case of IPA. If the vaccine comes first, you buy me a case.
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Or half as many deaths per Million as New York and New Jersey. Elderly residents can't be killed if they take the same precautions as my parents and in-laws do. They stay at home. My coworkers mom in law goes to the casinos. She understands the risk and doesn't care.

Life is about choices. I'll eat out if it is outdoors here in California, but won't eat inside a restaurant, even at 50% capacity. I wear my mask, stay away from groups larger than 6-7 people. My kid trains with a couple others, does team practice, but no contact. I'd let her play a game if allowed.

Cases dropped from a high of 12000 here in California July 22 to a current average of about 3500 per day. Things are getting better, but it sounds like the rules are so tight that counties are going to have tighter restrictions.
 
notintheface said:
"Students are strongly urged to shelter in place from 9/14 through 9/29."
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This risk in basically non existent for that group. As one of the university medical doctors stated the chance of anyone actually going to the hospital is extremely unlikely.

These are people not exhibiting illness. They are just showing as a positive
 
dad4 said:
And you have twice as many deaths per capita. You keep forgetting to mention that part. Your state killed thousands of elderly residents so you could have beer and pizza in the restaurant.
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I think it is less a gov policy thing and more how the virus acts in certain regions and in certain populations.

Take a look at Utah. They have been open far longer vs AZ and have a vastly different rate vs AZ for example.
Take a look at W Europe vs E Europe. It is fascinating.
 
Desert Hound said:
OK here is some food for thought.

1. What is interesting to see is how W. Europe has done vs E. Europe.
2. I doubt anyone thinks that in general E Europe has better medical care, more efficient governments in terms of setting policies, etc. And yet look at how much better they have done vs W Europe. Or maybe it is more accurate to say how differently the virus acted in that region vs W Europe.

Have they done better in terms of response? Or do other factors make the difference? I lean heavily towards other reasons. Climate, populations (some immunity, etc). For reference take a look at Africa as well. Experts assumed they would be hammered and yet that has not come to pass.

It seems the virus acts differently depending on region, climate, population more so vs what the gov have actually done.

It is interesting to see on the Euro continent how differently the virus affected different regions.

Western Europe
177,947 deaths
413,461,656 population
Deaths 430 per million

Eastern Europe
36,058 deaths
331,085,712 population
Deaths 109 per million
Click to expand...
Comparing E. Europe with W. Europe it's like comparing Santa Ana with Newport Beach. Population density is way off.
 
Let the kids play.

The University of Wisconsin’s COVID-19 in Youth Soccer study offered several valuable findings:

  • Data was collected from 124 clubs representing over 90,000 players who have returned to play in more than 45,000 training sessions and 6,000 games since re-starting an average of 10 weeks prior to the survey.
  • 71 clubs (57%) had progressed to soccer participation that involved contact / unrestricted play in training or competition.
  • 100% of the clubs reported they had a formal COVID-19 plan in place to reduce risk.
  • A total of 325 positive cases were reported, including 282 positive cases in players, and 43 positive cases in staff.
  • Of the 325 positive cases, 1 case was reportedly traced to transmission in soccer.
  • No cases were reported to result in hospitalization or death.
The 282 reported positive cases in youth players represents a rate of 310 cases of COVID-19 per 100,000 children. In comparison, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, during the 10 weeks prior to the survey (6/18/2020 through 8/27/2020) the nationwide case rate among children in the United States was 477 cases per 100,000 children.



www.theecnl.com

UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN STUDY ANALYZES COVID-19 RATES AMONG YOUTH SOCCER PLAYERS

Richmond, VA (September 16, 2020) - A new study conducted by the University of Wisconsin suggests that the incidence of reported COVID-19 cases among youth soccer players is not increased compared to the national pediatric case rate. Dr. Drew Watson, a physician at the University of Wisconsin...
www.theecnl.com www.theecnl.com
 
dad4 said:
As is mobility. Diseases spread more slowly when few people move around. And the former Warsaw Pact has fewer people rich enough to travel very far.
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Then why do we compare the US to Europe?

Why do we compare AZ to CA?

Etc etc.

Each has something unique regarding them.

AZ has a rather large portion of our deaths coming from the Navajo Nation as just one example. Native Americans make up less than 4% of the AZ population but are 11% of all deaths.
 
Eagle33 said:
Comparing E. Europe with W. Europe it's like comparing Santa Ana with Newport Beach. Population density is way off.
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Why do many compare the US vs Europe than?

We are very different in many areas vs Euro countries.

There seems to be many variables that affect what the virus does...and that is/was my point. People point to W Europe as a success. One could then ask why they failed in comparison vs E Europe? The answer is partially what you mention. Things are not that same. Density, weather, population, etc. Makes it very hard to compare one region vs another right?

The same applies when looking at various states in the US. Each are unique.
 
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