What's going on Cal South and State Cup Semi's?

espola said:
In my brief tenure as manager of various teams, I have had to carry around birth certificates from half a dozen countries. I never saw one where there was any doubt about the date of birth on them. If, as some have suggested, it was a Mexican birth certificate, even I with my limited Spanish training could read everything on the ones I saw.
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Prompted by events and a PM, I dragged out some stuff from my old soccer file box. I have photocopies of three Mexican birth certificates in my old soccer files, one from Guanajuato, one from Guerrero, and one from Distrito Federal. They differ in details to some degree, but all three of them have one date listed as "Fecha de Registro", and another as "Fecha de Nacimiento". The Registro date on all three is later than the Nacimiento date.
 
Thunderbolt said:
There exists a valid original birth certificate witnessed by Calsouth and others that confirms the player as a 2006.

There exists a secondary picture identification that confirms the player as a 2006.

There exists school records showing the player photo and birthday that confirms the player as a 2006.

I realize there are PDFs of one record (no originals) that tell another story. But which would you believe?
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Aka: BT, Aka: Surf legal counsel, Aka: cocos dad,
Aka: Thunderbolt.
I understand why you are defending this issue, you are in charge of all affiliates for Surf and AS is an affiliate. This debacle happened on your watch. What I don't understand is why you are sharing private inside information on a public forum? Don't you have anything better to do?
 
Joe Diaz said:
Let's hit them where it hurst by boycotting their tournaments and find an alternative to Cal South.
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I doubt that boycotting will work, and there is no stong alternative to Calsouth, anyway.

Calsouth doesn't care if it's right or wrong. It only has one PAD officer. There is no accountability. It could fit all the people who would decide whether or not to investigate into the space under your sink.

Calsouth's ineptitude in this case has done a great disservice to the local soccer community.

In any event, Calsouth is not going to answer to anybody here except, maybe, the teams that did not advance as a result of Surf's questionable activities. So, if you are Galaxy, Legends or San Diego Surf, then you might get someone to speak to you. Otherwise, expect to be stonewalled.
 
espola said:
In my brief tenure as manager of various teams, I have had to carry around birth certificates from half a dozen countries. I never saw one where there was any doubt about the date of birth on them. If, as some have suggested, it was a Mexican birth certificate, even I with my limited Spanish training could read everything on the ones I saw.
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Since you seem to be an experienced team manager lets assume hypothetically speaking you are the team manager for a 2005 team. After the birth year changes were announced your coach on this hypothetical team decided to change the team to a 2006 team.

Now filling in some hypothetical gaps lets assume one or more of your hypothetical parents on this hypothetical team came to you at registration time for this hypothetical 2006 team and said: "Hey we just noticed after 4 hypothetical years that our hypothetical daughter was actually born in 2006 so we have updated her hypothetical birth certificate.

I have two questions:

1. How likely would it be that without notifying the coach, the registrar and/or Cal South of this "innocent" mistake you would simply submit the player as a new player with a slightly altered last name and subsequently swap out the hypothetical birth certificate in your log book?

2. What do you think the odds are that your hypothetical coach decided to move his hypothetical team to a younger age group without reviewing the birth dates on his current hypothetical roster?

I'd love for this all to go away. I actually like the people involved, but the fact that they sent an attorney in who was able to get another team removed while seemingly not being able to answer some of these basic issues is truly stunning. I honestly could care less about the results of these U11 soccer games, but I do care that the adults involved demonstrate some integrity.

I'm well aware of many more things with this that others are not speaking about publically, but it's time for the adults involved to show some integrity. Before posting anything else calling into question why parents are angry perhaps Thunderbolt or someone with knowledge of what went on can answer some of these basic questions. Perhaps I have this all wrong. I would love nothing more than to find out that this is some sort of error, because as I said I like the people involved, but I won't continue to defend them when so much smoke is in the air and they are not offering any explanations!
 
softwaretest said:
Since you seem to be an experienced team manager lets assume hypothetically speaking you are the team manager for a 2005 team. After the birth year changes were announced your coach on this hypothetical team decided to change the team to a 2006 team.

Now filling in some hypothetical gaps lets assume one or more of your hypothetical parents on this hypothetical team came to you at registration time for this hypothetical 2006 team and said: "Hey we just noticed after 4 hypothetical years that our hypothetical daughter was actually born in 2006 so we have updated her hypothetical birth certificate.

I have two questions:

1. How likely would it be that without notifying the coach, the registrar and/or Cal South of this "innocent" mistake you would simply submit the player as a new player with a slightly altered last name and subsequently swap out the hypothetical birth certificate in your log book?

2. What do you think the odds are that your hypothetical coach decided to move his hypothetical team to a younger age group without reviewing the birth dates on his current hypothetical roster?

I'd love for this all to go away. I actually like the people involved, but the fact that they sent an attorney in who was able to get another team removed while seemingly not being able to answer some of these basic issues is truly stunning. I honestly could care less about the results of these U11 soccer games, but I do care that the adults involved demonstrate some integrity.

I'm well aware of many more things with this that others are not speaking about publically, but it's time for the adults involved to show some integrity. Before posting anything else calling into question why parents are angry perhaps Thunderbolt or someone with knowledge of what went on can answer some of these basic questions. Perhaps I have this all wrong. I would love nothing more than to find out that this is some sort of error, because as I said I like the people involved, but I won't continue to defend them when so much smoke is in the air and they are not offering any explanations!
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For a time in my soccer club days, I was on the Board of Directors as the elected Vice President (nobody else ran) and then appointed by the BOD as VP-Competitive after the Board dismissed the previous one (and he was and still is a good friend of mine, so that was sticky for a while). During that time we only had a few BC issue - in one case a player whose father wrote down the wrong date on his registration form. The Registrar caught it, though, and the kid in question was elevated to the team a year older.
 
Mrjackten said:
If any of you really are so concerned about the truth then you should contact Anaheim Surf. I am sure they will be happy to meet with you. None of you have the balls to do that because again refer to number 3 above and it's easier for you to hide behind your computers.
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Why call Surf when the information can be read here?

Dear Anaheim Surf Parents,

I’d like to reach out to all club members to personally congratulate our Girls 2006 team coached by Brent Whitfield on their State Cup Presidents Championship this past weekend, and also address the controversy that unfortunately was attached to their tournament wins.

6 days before the team was due to play in the semifinals of State Cup, Cal South Protest, Appeals and Disciplinary (PAD) informed us that a team had filed a complaint alleging that one of the players on our team was an overaged player and had played during the 2016-17 regular season and in the tournament. Cal South PAD requested additional documentation, which our registrar immediately provided in the form of a copy of the player’s original birth certificate that we felt proved that our player was indeed playing in the correct age group.

Because of a conflicting document in an old record found in the Cal South system, that was uploaded prior to this player joining Anaheim Surf, a ruling was made to disqualify our team from State Cup. We were unaware of the documentation until this past week. On Thursday, two days before the semifinal game, after learning of the disqualification from an update of the State Cup results page, we immediately appealed the Cal South PAD findings to the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Our appeal was granted and was heard by the SCAC on Friday.

We provided, and Cal South SCAC reviewed the following documentation: 1) An original birth certificate, 2) An alternate form of picture ID, and 3) Enrollment records sent directly from the player’s school that all confirmed the player’s 2006 birthday. After the SCAC reviewed the documentation they concluded that there was no violation of Cal South Rule 9.4 and verified the age correctly of the player as a 2006 birth year, thus overturning the decision to disqualify our team from State Cup. The findings from SCAC are as follows:

Subject: SCAC Appeal Decision: ANAHEIM SURF 2006 - WHITFIELD
The determination to overturn the decision to disqualify Anaheim Surf 2006- Whitfield, team 0365-01CG06-1036, from the Cal South State Cup competition was a result of reviewing all documentation provided and interviewing multiple individuals by the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Among the documents provided was the original birth certificate and school records. The SCAC has determined that the Cal South State Cup Rule 9.4 was not violated as the determination letter from Craig Mues stated.

We perform our due diligence to the best of our ability every year when registering new and returning players in our club. Despite the clear evidence to the contrary, some in the soccer community continue to accuse our club of cheating by rostering an overage player. Let me emphatically state: we have only ever seen evidence that the player is correctly rostered and we believe the overwhelming evidence bears this out. I established this club 19 years ago and strive every day to operate in an ethical manner. Cheating to gain an advantage is something we have never done, and will never do.

If you’d like to talk to me in person or via phone about this matter, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Sincerely,
Eddie Carrillo
Anaheim Surf Club Director
Chapman University Director of Soccer Men’s Head Coach
 
Chicharito said:
Why call Surf when the information can be read here?

Dear Anaheim Surf Parents,

I’d like to reach out to all club members to personally congratulate our Girls 2006 team coached by Brent Whitfield on their State Cup Presidents Championship this past weekend, and also address the controversy that unfortunately was attached to their tournament wins.

6 days before the team was due to play in the semifinals of State Cup, Cal South Protest, Appeals and Disciplinary (PAD) informed us that a team had filed a complaint alleging that one of the players on our team was an overaged player and had played during the 2016-17 regular season and in the tournament. Cal South PAD requested additional documentation, which our registrar immediately provided in the form of a copy of the player’s original birth certificate that we felt proved that our player was indeed playing in the correct age group.

Because of a conflicting document in an old record found in the Cal South system, that was uploaded prior to this player joining Anaheim Surf, a ruling was made to disqualify our team from State Cup. We were unaware of the documentation until this past week. On Thursday, two days before the semifinal game, after learning of the disqualification from an update of the State Cup results page, we immediately appealed the Cal South PAD findings to the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Our appeal was granted and was heard by the SCAC on Friday.

We provided, and Cal South SCAC reviewed the following documentation: 1) An original birth certificate, 2) An alternate form of picture ID, and 3) Enrollment records sent directly from the player’s school that all confirmed the player’s 2006 birthday. After the SCAC reviewed the documentation they concluded that there was no violation of Cal South Rule 9.4 and verified the age correctly of the player as a 2006 birth year, thus overturning the decision to disqualify our team from State Cup. The findings from SCAC are as follows:

Subject: SCAC Appeal Decision: ANAHEIM SURF 2006 - WHITFIELD
The determination to overturn the decision to disqualify Anaheim Surf 2006- Whitfield, team 0365-01CG06-1036, from the Cal South State Cup competition was a result of reviewing all documentation provided and interviewing multiple individuals by the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Among the documents provided was the original birth certificate and school records. The SCAC has determined that the Cal South State Cup Rule 9.4 was not violated as the determination letter from Craig Mues stated.

We perform our due diligence to the best of our ability every year when registering new and returning players in our club. Despite the clear evidence to the contrary, some in the soccer community continue to accuse our club of cheating by rostering an overage player. Let me emphatically state: we have only ever seen evidence that the player is correctly rostered and we believe the overwhelming evidence bears this out. I established this club 19 years ago and strive every day to operate in an ethical manner. Cheating to gain an advantage is something we have never done, and will never do.

If you’d like to talk to me in person or via phone about this matter, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Sincerely,
Eddie Carrillo
Anaheim Surf Club Director
Chapman University Director of Soccer Men’s Head Coach
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Sorry AS, nobody is buying it. AS registered her as a new player to get her a new ID # and from what was written earlier, she all of a sudden had a new hyphenated last name at the exact same time that she came over with her teammates from Arsenal. Did any of her Arsenal teammates get a new ID #? No. Did the girls who came over from Legends get a new ID#? No. Everybody knew she had previously played for Arsenal. The AS DOC knew she previously had played for Arsenal, so there was no reason to not use her existing Cal South ID #, other than to deceive and to create plausible deniability. End of story.
 
Chicharito said:
Why call Surf when the information can be read here?

Dear Anaheim Surf Parents,

I’d like to reach out to all club members to personally congratulate our Girls 2006 team coached by Brent Whitfield on their State Cup Presidents Championship this past weekend, and also address the controversy that unfortunately was attached to their tournament wins.

6 days before the team was due to play in the semifinals of State Cup, Cal South Protest, Appeals and Disciplinary (PAD) informed us that a team had filed a complaint alleging that one of the players on our team was an overaged player and had played during the 2016-17 regular season and in the tournament. Cal South PAD requested additional documentation, which our registrar immediately provided in the form of a copy of the player’s original birth certificate that we felt proved that our player was indeed playing in the correct age group.

Because of a conflicting document in an old record found in the Cal South system, that was uploaded prior to this player joining Anaheim Surf, a ruling was made to disqualify our team from State Cup. We were unaware of the documentation until this past week. On Thursday, two days before the semifinal game, after learning of the disqualification from an update of the State Cup results page, we immediately appealed the Cal South PAD findings to the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Our appeal was granted and was heard by the SCAC on Friday.

We provided, and Cal South SCAC reviewed the following documentation: 1) An original birth certificate, 2) An alternate form of picture ID, and 3) Enrollment records sent directly from the player’s school that all confirmed the player’s 2006 birthday. After the SCAC reviewed the documentation they concluded that there was no violation of Cal South Rule 9.4 and verified the age correctly of the player as a 2006 birth year, thus overturning the decision to disqualify our team from State Cup. The findings from SCAC are as follows:

Subject: SCAC Appeal Decision: ANAHEIM SURF 2006 - WHITFIELD
The determination to overturn the decision to disqualify Anaheim Surf 2006- Whitfield, team 0365-01CG06-1036, from the Cal South State Cup competition was a result of reviewing all documentation provided and interviewing multiple individuals by the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Among the documents provided was the original birth certificate and school records. The SCAC has determined that the Cal South State Cup Rule 9.4 was not violated as the determination letter from Craig Mues stated.

We perform our due diligence to the best of our ability every year when registering new and returning players in our club. Despite the clear evidence to the contrary, some in the soccer community continue to accuse our club of cheating by rostering an overage player. Let me emphatically state: we have only ever seen evidence that the player is correctly rostered and we believe the overwhelming evidence bears this out. I established this club 19 years ago and strive every day to operate in an ethical manner. Cheating to gain an advantage is something we have never done, and will never do.

If you’d like to talk to me in person or via phone about this matter, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Sincerely,
Eddie Carrillo
Anaheim Surf Club Director
Chapman University Director of Soccer Men’s Head Coach
Click to expand...
Interesting it still doesn't say why the girl was not allowed to play
 
Chicharito said:
Why call Surf when the information can be read here?

Dear Anaheim Surf Parents,

I’d like to reach out to all club members to personally congratulate our Girls 2006 team coached by Brent Whitfield on their State Cup Presidents Championship this past weekend, and also address the controversy that unfortunately was attached to their tournament wins.

6 days before the team was due to play in the semifinals of State Cup, Cal South Protest, Appeals and Disciplinary (PAD) informed us that a team had filed a complaint alleging that one of the players on our team was an overaged player and had played during the 2016-17 regular season and in the tournament. Cal South PAD requested additional documentation, which our registrar immediately provided in the form of a copy of the player’s original birth certificate that we felt proved that our player was indeed playing in the correct age group.

Because of a conflicting document in an old record found in the Cal South system, that was uploaded prior to this player joining Anaheim Surf, a ruling was made to disqualify our team from State Cup. We were unaware of the documentation until this past week. On Thursday, two days before the semifinal game, after learning of the disqualification from an update of the State Cup results page, we immediately appealed the Cal South PAD findings to the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Our appeal was granted and was heard by the SCAC on Friday.

We provided, and Cal South SCAC reviewed the following documentation: 1) An original birth certificate, 2) An alternate form of picture ID, and 3) Enrollment records sent directly from the player’s school that all confirmed the player’s 2006 birthday. After the SCAC reviewed the documentation they concluded that there was no violation of Cal South Rule 9.4 and verified the age correctly of the player as a 2006 birth year, thus overturning the decision to disqualify our team from State Cup. The findings from SCAC are as follows:

Subject: SCAC Appeal Decision: ANAHEIM SURF 2006 - WHITFIELD
The determination to overturn the decision to disqualify Anaheim Surf 2006- Whitfield, team 0365-01CG06-1036, from the Cal South State Cup competition was a result of reviewing all documentation provided and interviewing multiple individuals by the State Cup Appeals Committee (SCAC). Among the documents provided was the original birth certificate and school records. The SCAC has determined that the Cal South State Cup Rule 9.4 was not violated as the determination letter from Craig Mues stated.

We perform our due diligence to the best of our ability every year when registering new and returning players in our club. Despite the clear evidence to the contrary, some in the soccer community continue to accuse our club of cheating by rostering an overage player. Let me emphatically state: we have only ever seen evidence that the player is correctly rostered and we believe the overwhelming evidence bears this out. I established this club 19 years ago and strive every day to operate in an ethical manner. Cheating to gain an advantage is something we have never done, and will never do.

If you’d like to talk to me in person or via phone about this matter, don’t hesitate to reach out.

Sincerely,
Eddie Carrillo
Anaheim Surf Club Director
Chapman University Director of Soccer Men’s Head Coach
Click to expand...
Whatever helps you sleep at night......
 
If you want to boycott somebody in a way that works, then boycott Anaheim Surf's tournaments. I don't coach, but I still get plenty of emails from Eddie Carillo begging me to bring teams. Turn your back on this ethically questionable club and don't believe anything EC tells you.
 
Mrjackten said:
LOL...I sense a riot starting...boycotts, protests, I love it...Go for it....all of you people are all talk...all over a soccer game. You want Answers? You want the truth? Call CalSouth or go stand in their lobby until they tell you....Throw the same tantrums you are throwing on this site. The problem is you all wont believe anything that is told to you. All of you Michael Moores want some story of conspiracy because in your mind that is way easier to believe. You also wont go to CalSouth either because that takes work that none of you really want to do to find the truth...Left Wing Liberal mentality..."We are owed answers! We are owed everything! We are entitled"....Half of you are probably Millennials.
I shouldn't be surprised.

I could send you pictures of the documents...video of the birth
Tell you all the whys and hows
But it wont matter....you wont believe what is told to you.

The girl was born in 2006. period. it should be end of story but again, you wont believe it.

Why didn't the girl play. Ask CalSouth. It doesn't matter what I tell you.
The team didn't need her anyway to beat two teams that were already better than Legends, Galaxy, and everyone else. Sorry but your teams Lost. I know that is hard for some of you to deal with but just get over it and move on.

Stop with the "what are you teaching your girls garbage". No one in the club is promoting lying or cheating.

I can guarantee you all that if ANY of the Board members, Registrar, or the DOC believed that this girl was an overage player the club would gladly give back the trophy.

BTW...no one is struggling with guilt because the truth sets you free but like with anything else in life, you must have some faith.
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Thanks for the comic relief MrJackten.
 
this still does not explain why the girl was not allowed to play after the ruling. If she and the team were fully exhonerated, why wouldn't Cal South or AS allow her to play with her team. Perhaps a straight answer to this question will help quiet the "some in the soccer community."

Was it cal south that held her out? If so, there must have been continued doubt by cal south. If so, AS shouldn't have been reinstated.

Was it AS holding her out? If so, were they aftraid that the truth would finally come out and her continued participation would jeopardize the final two games...it certainly wouldn't be that they were thinking of her want to participate with her teammates. as the team's parents even mentioned, she was expendable and they won without her. Would the same have happened if the player in question was their Vegas player or the new guest star players from strikers?
 
Frank the Tank said:
Interesting it still doesn't say why the girl was not allowed to play
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If this girl was disqualified for having multiple Ids. Why did Cal South disqualifying the girl? Aren't the # created by Cal South when a player is registered under information not recognized in the system. Different name? Different Birthdate? But then again there was no way BW/AS could have known that this girl had never played Competitive Soccer. Maybe the soccer academies should be looking at her, "A naturally skilled tier 1 player".
 
Frank the Tank said:
Interesting it still doesn't say why the girl was not allowed to play
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That letter from the club being the first information directly from someone who witnessed all the proceedings, it is more credible than a lot of the rumors being passed around so far. In terms of not playing the girl (which I don't know is true), I could imagine a few reasons even if the club was vindicated: 1. If they can win without her (which they did), then they can take some of the wind out of the sails of those who disagree with Cal South's ruling and preserve some of the integrity of the final wins no matter what happens after. 2. If it was true that for some reason misinformation was given to prior teams in order to play-up before the birth year change (which is maybe a plausible reason, though kinda dumb), then maybe they were imposing some consequence internally for the dishonesty. Of course, I don't know anything so I'm just speculating.

Also, the kid or her family could have had their own reasons either having to do with the hullabaloo or completely unrelated. Seeing what some of the parents' assumptions and reactions on this board are, as a parent I could see opting out of it irrespective of Cal South's ruling.
 
Mrjackten said:
LOL...I sense a riot starting...boycotts, protests, I love it...Go for it....all of you people are all talk...all over a soccer game. You want Answers? You want the truth? Call CalSouth or go stand in their lobby until they tell you....Throw the same tantrums you are throwing on this site. The problem is you all wont believe anything that is told to you. All of you Michael Moores want some story of conspiracy because in your mind that is way easier to believe. You also wont go to CalSouth either because that takes work that none of you really want to do to find the truth...Left Wing Liberal mentality..."We are owed answers! We are owed everything! We are entitled"....Half of you are probably Millennials.
I shouldn't be surprised.

I could send you pictures of the documents...video of the birth
Tell you all the whys and hows
But it wont matter....you wont believe what is told to you.

The girl was born in 2006. period. it should be end of story but again, you wont believe it.

Why didn't the girl play. Ask CalSouth. It doesn't matter what I tell you.
The team didn't need her anyway to beat two teams that were already better than Legends, Galaxy, and everyone else. Sorry but your teams Lost. I know that is hard for some of you to deal with but just get over it and move on.

Stop with the "what are you teaching your girls garbage". No one in the club is promoting lying or cheating.

I can guarantee you all that if ANY of the Board members, Registrar, or the DOC believed that this girl was an overage player the club would gladly give back the trophy.

BTW...no one is struggling with guilt because the truth sets you free but like with anything else in life, you must have some faith.
Click to expand...

Those pesky conflicting documents....
Don't you hate when its time to register your kids for school, basketball, or get a passport..you always have to sit down at your home office, pull out the conflicting documents folder and decide which valid embossed sealed stamped papyrus one you are going to use this time.

And to top it off, people on a forum (the most credible news site since the onion) question its validity?? I know I always react with an unreasonable amount of anger and start name calling.
 
RedNevilles said:
So if she was of age, then the girl was eligible to play then?
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The player is a 05. The first ID number and the two BC support that. The second ID number with a hyphenated name and third BC used were to say she was an 06, but the third BC was found to be fraudulent by the investigator. Her suspension is based on multiple id's however they are not saying anymore than that.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
The player is a 05. The first ID number and the two BC support that. The second ID number with a hyphenated name and third BC used were to say she was an 06, but the third BC was found to be fraudulent by the investigator. Her suspension is based on multiple id's however they are not saying anymore than that.
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If a player has multiple IDs and this is against Cal South rules then she is ineligible to play. If she is ineligible to play and did so during state cup, surely, rule 9.4 is enforced as they played with an ineligible player?
 
RedNevilles said:
If a player has multiple IDs and this is against Cal South rules then she is ineligible to play. If she is ineligible to play and did so during state cup, surely, rule 9.4 is enforced as they played with an ineligible player?
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You are correct. They did not adhere to their own rules. Which is why this and other facts make this whole situation questionable and bordering unethical.
 
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