Vaccine

Grace T. said:
It looks like it's going to be around a 1/3 (that split is really really stubborn isn't it....hasn't moved since March 2020)....higher in some parts of the country and lower in others

www.ksdk.com

New survey highlights parent concerns for vaccinating kids 5-11

Some of their biggest concerns include the unknown, long-term effects, serious side effects, and infertility
www.ksdk.com www.ksdk.com
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The concern being...

- No long term studies to see if there are some bad effects
- Parents wondering why force a kid to take a vax that in no way changes their risk profile vs covid.
 
dad4 said:
Yes, but Lawrence Tabak is not. Read his letter.

WIV was conducting experiments to see if they could engineer a bat coronavirus to attach to a human ACE2 receptor.

Two years later, we have a global pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus that attaches to a human ACE2 receptor.

So, maybe natural processes just happened to duplicate the exact research they were doing at WIV, at exactly the same time, in exactly the same location.

Or maybe some moron failed to properly maintain containment when they moved the lab in Wuhan.
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Further note that after all this time they have not found where exactly the virus came from if natural. The bats in question are not native to the area around Wuhan where the virus started.
 
espola said:
My opinion is that there are too many gullible people in the world. They have always been there, but the social media revolution has made them all painfully public.
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What does that mean in regards to mandates, you're playing word games. Do you support Covid vaccine mandates, or are you against mandates? It's not a difficult question to answer. All of your comments have been at least in the defense of mandates, so I hardly have put thoughts in your head.

Obviously, I'm anti-mandate. My only caveat would be the military where I think they could make a good faith argument to enforce mandates, regardless of whether they are prudent or not.
 
espola said:
The one that ends like this?

"The analysis attached confirms that the bat coronaviruses studied under the EcoHealth Alliance grant could not have been the source of SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID- 19 pandemic."

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Yep. That’s the one.

Parse the sentence. It’s a very narrow denial. All he says is that one particular bat coronavirus was not the source of Sars-CoV-2.

It says nothing about the possibility that WIV ran the same experiment on several other coronaviruses, one of which escaped.

It’s CYA, and nothing more. He’s just saying “WIV didn’t create covid under the terms of OUR grant.”
 
crush said:
ECNL Vaccine Showcase Rules. Q me this. How does one know who is and who is not jabbed?

Any unvaccinated player, staff member or attendee who is exposed to an individual diagnosed with COVID-19 (less than 6 feet away for 15 minutes or more within a 24-hour period) will be restricted from play/the facility. Ø Any unvaccinated player, staff member or attendee who is exposed to an individual with suspected COVID-19 will be restricted from play/the facility unless the symptomatic individual can demonstrate a negative test. Ø Fully vaccinated, asymptomatic individuals who are exposed to an individual with suspected or diagnosed COVID-19 do not need to be restricted from play/ the facility. Ø Any symptomatic player will be restricted from play until their symptoms have fully resolved for 24 hours AND they can demonstrate a negative test
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Simple silly.

They hire a bunch of Vulcans who can do the Vulcan Mind Meld. Spock did it all the time. So upon entry you get checked out by a Vulcan. They read your mind. If you have been exposed you get a red shirt and then they send you on an away trip.
 
FOLLOW THE SCIENCE! Exposed: The plague of fake medical trials putting lives in danger as experts reveal a FIFTH of studies published each year could contain invented or plagiarised results. “According to bombshell allegations from a group of highly respected experts, the medical world is rife with research fraud. Their investigations suggest up to one in five of the estimated two million medical studies published each year could contain invented or plagiarised results, details of patients who never existed and trials that didn’t actually take place. The problem is ‘well known about’ in science circles, says Richard Smith, former editor-in-chief of the British Medical Journal (BMJ) – yet there is a reluctance within the establishment to accept the scale of the problem.”

I wonder if that applies to masks.

Let us review shall we.

Decades of research on masks showing little to no utility in stopping respiratory illness.

Gov suddenly needs to look proactive and presto suddenly masks work.
 
Desert Hound said:
FOLLOW THE SCIENCE! Exposed: The plague of fake medical trials putting lives in danger as experts reveal a FIFTH of studies published each year could contain invented or plagiarised results. “According to bombshell allegations from a group of highly respected experts, the medical world is rife with research fraud. Their investigations suggest up to one in five of the estimated two million medical studies published each year could contain invented or plagiarised results, details of patients who never existed and trials that didn’t actually take place. The problem is ‘well known about’ in science circles, says Richard Smith, former editor-in-chief of the British Medical Journal (BMJ) – yet there is a reluctance within the establishment to accept the scale of the problem.”

I wonder if that applies to masks.

Let us review shall we.

Decades of research on masks showing little to no utility in stopping respiratory illness.

Gov suddenly needs to look proactive and presto suddenly masks work.
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Decades, you say?

www.pnas.org

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...
www.pnas.org www.pnas.org
 
watfly said:
Under your rationale forced activity is acceptable without any substantiation. Your comparisons are quite frankly, comical.
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Who said anything about, “forced activity”? Oh yeah you. Seems misrepresenting my opinion is the only thing you got. Good luck with that.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Who said anything about, “forced activity”? Oh yeah you. Seems misrepresenting my opinion is the only thing you got. Good luck with that.
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What about a mandate is not a "forced activity"? You were trying to justify mandates by comparing them to other required activities to attend school. I don't want to misrepresent anyone's opinion, that's not my game. Please feel free to clarify if you believe I've misrepresented your position.
 
Here they actually looked at RCT studies over decades.

The found masks to be limited in their effectiveness.

Until politicized, this was the go to understanding about masks and respiratory viruses.

The only thing that has changed is political pressure to conform....of which you have again.

Your go to in every discussion is MORE GOV. For a non partisan that is interesting. You may want to evaluate the meaning of what you claim to be.
espola said:
Decades, you say?
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Yeah decades. 1946 to 2018.

wwwnc.cdc.gov

Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

Pandemic Influenza—Personal Protective Measures
wwwnc.cdc.gov wwwnc.cdc.gov
 
watfly said:
Here's the thing with young kids. The vaccination doesn't provide any material benefit to them unless they have other conditions. So the question becomes should my child get injected for the sole reason of a potential benefit to others? I don't know that most parents will find that a very compelling reason that their young child should have the responsibility to protect adults. I think that would require a major cultural mindset shift, the media is in hyperdrive with promoting this shift, but I just don't think the majority of the general population is buying it.

Like I said before I put the over/under at 40% for 5-11 vaccinations. I'm beginning to think that's too high.
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Usually, the FDA weights heavily the idea that a vaccine must benefit the intended population before it approves anything. In this case, plenty of argument was presented that this particular vaccine clearly did not benefit the general population of 5-11 years olds. The same was argued for 12 and above. The FDA issued EUAs for both age groups for pfizer.

I agree that many parents will sidestep vaccines for younger children unless at risk or if school districts enforce mandates. Rollout for the 5-11 vaccines will be slow an deliberate.
 
espola said:
My opinion is that there are too many gullible people in the world. They have always been there, but the social media revolution has made them all painfully public.
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And they seem to believe no one will notice their clumsy attempts of subterfuge while they try bolstering their untenable positions.
 
what-happened said:
Usually, the FDA weights heavily the idea that a vaccine must benefit the intended population before it approves anything. In this case, plenty of argument was presented that this particular vaccine clearly did not benefit the general population of 5-11 years olds. The same was argued for 12 and above. The FDA issued EUAs for both age groups for pfizer.

I agree that many parents will sidestep vaccines for younger children unless at risk or if school districts enforce mandates. Rollout for the 5-11 vaccines will be slow an deliberate.
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Drugs also go through many years of testing before they hit the market.

The like to study it, see which groups may be at risk, understand the interaction with the drug at hand with other drugs, etc.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
And they seem to believe no one will notice their clumsy attempts of subterfuge while they try bolstering their untenable positions.
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I think he is talking about you two without realizing it.

Untenable, guillible, etc describe you two rather well.

You guys part of the flat earth society? I hear they have membership all around the world.
 
watfly said:
What about a mandate is not a "forced activity"? You were trying to justify mandates by comparing them to other required activities to attend school. I don't want to misrepresent anyone's opinion, that's not my game. Please feel free to clarify if you believe I've misrepresented your position.
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Oh I see your problem, comprehension. Where did I say I support mandates? Actually I said the opposite but that wouldn’t help you do whatever it is you are trying to do. Misrepresentation isn’t a valid debate tactic amongst the aware.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Oh I see your problem, comprehension. Where did I say I support mandates? Actually I said the opposite but that wouldn’t help you do whatever it is you are trying to do. Misrepresentation isn’t a valid debate tactic amongst the aware.
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My bad, I assumed you were pro-mandate based on your rationalizations regarding mandates. I honestly have a hard time keeping up with you and Espola (although I still don't know Espola's opinion on mandate). I guess I shouldn't assume based on someone's rhetoric implying something in the alternative. I guess I missed your prior anti-mandate statements.

Not trying to do anything here. Glad to hear you are anti-mandate. Welcome to the pro-vax, anti-mandate club.
 
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