4% is an awfully high number for an org conditioned to obey orders with no or little questioning, where there's a valid government rationale (military readiness), and where they take some vaccines which also have nasty side effects and aren't forced on the general public. Imagine what it will be like when push comes to shove with children.
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
This argument only works if there isn't fading immunity (the 1/6 rate....the range is probably somewhere between 1/3 and 1/8 and we don't really know because of the time element...1/6 may be a blended rate based on where population immunity is at any one time) from vaccines and the 1/6 is enough of a slide down the R to prevent outbreaks (which given what's happening in Iceland, Singapore, Norway, Finland and Ireland is a little bit dubious right now). If vaccine protection against infection slides down to near zero after some time, unless you are going to mandate boosters constantly (and if people are off the train now, imagine what they'll do with constant boosters) this doesn't hold water. You'd have to compare someone's ability to transmit unvaccinated to post vaxx 3 months to post vaxx 6 months to post vaxx a year. If that year number approaches the unvaccinated transmission numbers, your argument collapses.
You also have to draw the distinction between unvaccinated and unvaccinated but prior infection as those rates are going to be different.
Good summation of the evidence so far....
www.city-journal.org
The Evidence Mounts
The origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes Covid-19 remains unclear, but recent revelations reinforce the likelihood that the true source was a lab leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). A letter from Lawrence Tabak, the National Institutes of Health’s principal deputy director, to...
www.city-journal.org
Good summation of the evidence so far....
The Evidence Mounts
The origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes Covid-19 remains unclear, but recent revelations reinforce the likelihood that the true source was a lab leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). A letter from Lawrence Tabak, the National Institutes of Health’s principal deputy director, to...
Joel Zinberg is a senior fellow at Competitive Enterprise Institute.
The argument works whether the number is 1/3, 1/6, or 1/8.
If the vax reduces my odds of catching covid, then it reduces the odds of my transmitting covid. Arguing about 1/3 versus 1/8 is just quibbling over whether it reduces transmission by 66% or 87%.
Links please to be up your misleading wording.
I bet most of the 4% are in the top 1% of the Top Guns.
It looks like it's going to be around a 1/3 (that split is really really stubborn isn't it....hasn't moved since March 2020)....higher in some parts of the country and lower in others
New survey highlights parent concerns for vaccinating kids 5-11
Some of their biggest concerns include the unknown, long-term effects, serious side effects, and infertility
www.ksdk.com
then you don't understand your own argument. If it reduces it by only 50% there's no point in the mandate (at least as far as it reduces transmission....the virus is still going to circulate, everyone is going to catch it as their immunity falls, outbreaks aren't prevented). It doesn't do anything to actually control an outbreak.
The argument you are left with is you need to force the idiots to take it for their own safety and good. But that's problematic too: a) if the idiots are so stupid you are forcing them to take a vaccine, why do you trust them with responsibilities like voting?, b) anyone under 30 is pretty much off the hook, and c) it pretty much undermines the entire my body my choice thing.
Yes, but Lawrence Tabak is not. Read his letter.
WIV was conducting experiments to see if they could engineer a bat coronavirus to attach to a human ACE2 receptor.
Two years later, we have a global pandemic caused by a bat coronavirus that attaches to a human ACE2 receptor.
So, maybe natural processes just happened to duplicate the exact research they were doing at WIV, at exactly the same time, in exactly the same location.
Or maybe some moron failed to properly maintain containment when they moved the lab in Wuhan.
If you take out the opinion and politics from the Zinberg article, there is not much left.
Unknown and long term side effects is a game of "who the fuck knows?" On one side, you have Dr. Fraud mixing Bats, Beagles, Human Baby Parts and Monkey Parts all in one vaccine Mix. His boy Bill is buying all the farm land. Zuck is now META, which means death. Jeffrey played with all them. Look parent, if you want to send your kid to Jab City and life time Boosters for life, that is your choice. I also have a choice to tell my kids to stay away from needles, especially the one's made by Dr. Fraud and his money hungry businessmen and business boss ladies. Record month for big pharma reps!!It looks like it's going to be around a 1/3 (that split is really really stubborn isn't it....hasn't moved since March 2020)....higher in some parts of the country and lower in others
New survey highlights parent concerns for vaccinating kids 5-11
Some of their biggest concerns include the unknown, long-term effects, serious side effects, and infertility
You’re changing the topic again.
Hound wanted to know why people wanted a mandate if vax and unvax transmit the same.
Simple answer is, they do not transmit the same.
Case closed.
If you want a new discussion about how a 50% reduction to R changes the scope of outbreaks, that‘s fine. Go take the classes you need to be able to have that discussion.
Did you read the Tabak letter?
Here's the thing with young kids. The vaccination doesn't provide any material benefit to them unless they have other conditions. So the question becomes should my child get injected for the sole reason of a potential benefit to others? I don't know that most parents will find that a very compelling reason that their young child should have the responsibility to protect adults. I think that would require a major cultural mindset shift, the media is in hyperdrive with promoting this shift, but I just don't think the majority of the general population is buying it.
Like I said before I put the over/under at 40% for 5-11 vaccinations. I'm beginning to think that's too high.
Like I said before I put the over/under at 40% for 5-11 vaccinations. I'm beginning to think that's too high.
Bruddah IZ
DA
You’ve been ignoring virus history from day one. You people assume that transmission is bad all the time. Which is false.
you just completely ducked the answer and tried to reframe the debate because you are scared and don't like where it's leading you.
I chose the 50% amount because at only a 50% reduction, it's self evident with an R of 6 or greater that isn't going to cut it. Where it gets tricky is if it's 80% or 66% reduction. Then: a) the number are hard (you are right...the math then is beyond me), b) as we know the inputs matter in those models and that's where the experts get it wrong....they are guessing as to the exact inputs especially since there's a time variable it seems, and c) they don't even have the data right now to justify 80%.
But if vaccine immunity is declining substantially with time, it renders all this moot. Eventually, without boosters, you will hit the point where some vaxxed are transmitting at or near the same as unvaxxed. and if people are rebelling now, think what happens with constant boosters every six months (here's a hint: never going to happen).
Bruddah IZ
DA
Wrong again. Vaccinated previous infected are much less likely to get and retransmit covid than vaccinated not previously infected. Stop cherry picking your science.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Your "focus" never fails to amuse.
I think nationally it's somewhere 50-60%...again the numbers haven't moved since March 2020. You have a 1/3 which is team reality/virus, 1/3 which is team panic/Science TM, and a 1/3 which is basically compliant until it goes too far. Mandates and partial mandates (such as mandating for elective activities such as sports) can move that center 1/3.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
We know what Occam's razor says about this.