Vaccine

[crush]

There is no risk to kids. You are not minimizing anything.

You have 70 millions people 17 and under. Almost 2 yrs into this 480 or so have died.

To make it easier to understand if deaths were equally distributed by state you are at less than 10 kids per state have died so far. So think about it in that terms.

It is fortunately a ridiculously small number.

To further put the numbers into perspective, it is not healthy kids who have died. It has been by and large kids with very serious health numbers.

Hound, stop saying 480 kids have died of Rona. That is not true. The truth is only about 20 died of Covid ONLY. The rest of the kids had at least four underlying health issues, like cancer. Maddie has a story to tell. Plus, is little Mason is still masked up? I have so much popcorn in my house btw. I have a machine like this one. I'm serious and no satire. Were all going to see the truth and hear the truth very, very soon and it will make you puke. Good luck to those looking at closing their eyes and trying cover up those ears with only two hands. Not going to escape the truth. This is the greatest movie of all time because we all are a part of the show. Some are good actors and some our bad actors. Some actors are sitting on da fence still and trying to figure out what side to choose, the good guys or the cheaters & liars.

 

[crush]

Moo & Oink FYI- if you support anyone losing their job ((the only way to pay their bills and buy food)) for not getting the jabbed, you're a bad actor. I would seriously re-consider that mind set if I were you. Karma will come around to you and you just might find yourself in a worse situation.

 

[what-happened]

Are you aware of the process the FDA used to approve aspirin? Do you also object to the use of aspirin?

We can play this game all day. Vioxx

The FDA and the CDC shoudn't be political players.

Don't worry, the jabs for the younguns are coming. It's likely some have already been jabbed. Doesn't mean the medical community can't voice an opinion on process. Eventually most will fall in line, many reluctantly. Some will lose patients just on principles.

 

[MacDre]

I guess folks are doing Fuzzy Math in Arizona because almost 500 dead kids is substantial to me.

I think the vaccine can bring down the number of dead kids. I also don’t think the Covid vaccine will kill almost 500 kids.

So, why do you have a problem with using a harm reduction strategy to save kids? Imagine if one of our kids was one of the 500 that prematurely died…all that shit that you are talking about really doesn’t matter then, right?

 

[NorCalDad]

...funding is adequate, unions are the problem.

I agree with you that teachers unions are as bad as other public service unions (police, etc). My guess is in someways, teacher unions are a reason why charter schools are flourishing. It's a Koch brother's wet dream to bust unions and also make many on the left happier about different pedagogies.

I disagree we have enough funding in the state of CA. We are 27th ranked for spending per pupil in comparison to other states and this doesn't even take into consideration cost of living. Frankly I have no idea why anyone would want to be a teacher in CA. I suppose tenure, maybe unions, and pensions attracts folks to the role. That said, my understanding is we're having a teacher shortage...sooooo...

 

[what-happened]

1) How are you defining more dangerous? More kids (18 and under) have died of covid over the last 18 months than those who've died of the flu over the last three years.

Your data from Fauci is so wrong, and he knows it. The CDC numbers even prove it. Flu deaths are always undercounted. In a mild 2017-18 Flu season 643 deaths between the ages of 0-17 occurred. Mild season. Compare that to the covid 19 over the last 20 months. You can keep searching for numbers on flu seasons. They are very high during some years.

And please don't misinterpret my position. I'm not against vaccines for the population of children that are at risk. That's a no brainer. Vaccinating a healthy, low risk population, under the guise of protecting an older population is silly. If you are older, at risk, get your shots and boosters. Makes sense. You may still get the virus, but your illness will be less severe. Then you'll have the lusted for hybrid immunity, which is the bomb.

 

[Grace T.]

I guess folks are doing Fuzzy Math in Arizona because almost 500 dead kids is substantial to me.

I think the vaccine can bring down the number of dead kids. I also don’t think the Covid vaccine will kill almost 500 kids.

So, why do you have a problem with using a harm reduction strategy to save kids? Imagine if one of our kids was one of the 500 that prematurely died…all that shit that you are talking about really doesn’t matter then, right?

1) How are you defining more dangerous? More kids (18 and under) have died of covid over the last 18 months than those who've died of the flu over the last three years. But whatever, the total death rate is minimal in comparison to the adult population. But let's keep going. Let's say you're right, covid is less dangerous. Is it 5% less dangerous? 10%? Where do you draw the line?

2) Six months is a bit arbitrary, but the data says the antibodies from an infection can last three months to five years. That's a pretty big dart board.

3) I, obviously, got the vaccine and haven't felt this good in a long time. More importantly, mRNA based vaccination research goes back 30+ years. Finally, I'd rather try and avoid long covid concerns. Ultimately I don't want my kid to get sick from covid, just like I don't want them to get sick from the flu. At the same time, we will hopefully reduce the spread of covid.

1. We know from other articles posted on this forum the 500 number is over stated. Of those kids some portion have died with COVID instead of from COVID.
2. You can't throw in and compare it to the last 18 months of flu because flu disappeared. You also can't compare flu deaths year over year to COVID since the beginning. Talk about fuzzy math. But, we know comparing COVID year to year, even with the inflated number, to flu year to year. flu deaths can range anywhere from 2x-5x COVID deaths, depending on how bad the flu season is.
3. From other articles posted on the forum, we also know long COVID is also a minimal concern in children, and long flu is much more of a danger.
4. You guys also seem to fails to understand the concept of marginal utility. Decreasing the risk of death [not actual numbers] from 8x to 3x in a person over 60 is a huge deal. Deceasing the chances of death in a child from .01% to .005% is just simply not as much of a big of a deal. Further, given the new dosing, we don't know exactly how much of a benefit against death/hospitalization/long COVID the vaccine is going to be...again the test numbers were very very limited (a good read is the 1 FDA member who wrote out his dissent to support his abstention vote).
5. On the cost end, we simply don't know what the risks are....again because the sample size is so small....particularly in boys.
6. So you guys are just guessing like everyone else. Far more honest to say "I'm scared of the virus" just like the other side is "scared of the vaccine". You may as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's why we are now in a booster conversation....because pharma and the FDA may have made a mistake and those initial mRNA shots should have been spaced out more....but they didn't know what they didn't know.

 

[met61]

We don’t do tryouts homie.

...my bad, wrong choice of word... maybe it was selection or invitation, anyway not worth going back and looking it up...my actual point was clear and a solid one...and your point of quibbling over semantics is clear as well. Thanks.

 

[watfly]

I haven't read the article but expect he is referring to property taxes (local & state) which are based on a notional value that can go up annually. So you are being taxed on the "unrealized gains" of the property.

Maybe so, but that's on the state/county level. Federally its unconstitutional to have a direct tax that is not apportioned among the states ratably. Hence why there is not a federal property tax and why a wealth tax is unconstitutional.

 

[met61]

You are over complicating a simple issue. Taking the Covid vaccine is a legitimate harm reduction strategy that minimizes risk.

...hope is not a strategy...there are legitimate concerns and questions regarding the vaccine.

 

[crush]

Your data from Fauci is so wrong, and he knows it. The CDC numbers even prove it. Flu deaths are always undercounted. In a mild 2017-18 Flu season 643 deaths between the ages of 0-17 occurred. Mild season. Compare that to the covid 19 over the last 20 months. You can keep searching for numbers on flu seasons. They are very high during some years.

And please don't misinterpret my position. I'm not against vaccines for the population of children that are at risk. That's a no brainer. Vaccinating a healthy, low risk population, under the guise of protecting an older population is silly. If you are older, at risk, get your shots and boosters. Makes sense. You may still get the virus, but your illness will be less severe. Then you'll have the lusted for hybrid immunity, which is the bomb.

Excellent break down. My dd is in the top 1% for her age health wise. No underlying health issues. Her immune system is super strong. Strong because when she does get a cold or sniffles, she beats it like the champ she is every time. Maddie was one of 1100 kids whose parents gave up their children for the test. She is paralyzed. She was healthy one day and can;t walk the next. I love you guys but this is pure evil. People have lost their job and now kids can;t play sports and or play soccer in college. I guess if you really love soccer you will get the jab. So sad it's come down to this.

 

[Grace T.]

We don't have AYSO in our neck of the woods. I wish we did. There's a big gap between local rec leagues here and club soccer. I think AYSO most certainly could fill that. At least if my memory is correct, AYSO wasn't half bad in SoCal when I was growing up. It's definitely a point of conflict for me for sure, and hard to reason about at times. Pay to play is brutal -- and has been discussed ad nauseam on these forums.

If AYSO wasn't "half bad" club soccer wouldn't have imploded like it did. There were two big problems with AYSO: the knowledge gap for coaches (which as more people grew up that went through the program and new training materials came out, became less of an issue), that it wasn't year round (some kids just want to do soccer and some don't want to be forced to do soccer/basketball/baseball every year), and that it wasn't tiered. This last issue AYSO stubbornly refused to address, which is why the brutal pay to play system arose.

 

[NorCalDad]

1. We know from other articles posted on this forum the 500 number is over stated. Of those kids some portion have died with COVID instead of from COVID.
2. You can't throw in and compare it to the last 18 months of flu because flu disappeared. You also can't compare flu deaths year over year to COVID since the beginning. Talk about fuzzy math. But, we know comparing COVID year to year, even with the inflated number, to flu year to year. flu deaths can range anywhere from 2x-5x COVID deaths, depending on how bad the flu season is.
3. From other articles posted on the forum, we also know long COVID is also a minimal concern in children, and long flu is much more of a danger.
4. You guys also seem to fails to understand the concept of marginal utility. Decreasing the risk of death [not actual numbers] from 8x to 3x in a person over 60 is a huge deal. Deceasing the chances of death in a child from .01% to .005% is just simply not as much of a big of a deal. Further, given the new dosing, we don't know exactly how much of a benefit against death/hospitalization/long COVID the vaccine is going to be...again the test numbers were very very limited (a good read is the 1 FDA member who wrote out his dissent to support his abstention vote).
5. On the cost end, we simply don't know what the risks are....again because the sample size is so small....particularly in boys.
6. So you guys are just guessing like everyone else. Far more honest to say "I'm scared of the virus" just like the other side is "scared of the vaccine". You may as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's why we are now in a booster conversation....because pharma and the FDA may have made a mistake and those initial mRNA shots should have been spaced out more....but they didn't know what they didn't know.

So, you're saying everyone is scared? Personally I'm not scared at all. We take guidance from our doctors, seeking second opinions when necessary. I'm not scared of my kids dying via covid or the vaccination. Sure there are some quack doctors out there (some of you have even posted links by or including them), but I do believe far more doctors actually know what they're talking about versus those that do not. Who would you trust? Someone who claims to be super smart and spends a significant amount of their waking life on a soccer forum (talking about covid) versus scientists/doctors who have spent many years in their field of study?

 

[Grace T.]

Good thread

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453424111603027971

 

[watfly]

Maybe so, but that's on the state/county level. Federally its unconstitutional to have a direct tax that is not apportioned among the states ratably. Hence why there is not a federal property tax and why a wealth tax is unconstitutional.

Here are couple of articles that explain the constitutional issues with direct taxes and apportionment one from independent Reuters and one from Berkeley the bastion of conservative thought.

Explainer: Democratic 'billionaires tax' proposal likely to face legal challenges

The proposal by U.S. Senate Democrats to tax billionaires' tradeable assets to help finance President Joe Biden's social spending agenda will almost certainly face lawsuits, tax experts said.

www.reuters.com

The Constitutionality of a Net Worth Tax | Recent News | News Center | Research and Impact | Goldman School of Public Policy | University of California, Berkeley

gspp.berkeley.edu

Taxing unrealized gains is a net worth tax

 

[met61]

1. We know from other articles posted on this forum the 500 number is over stated. Of those kids some portion have died with COVID instead of from COVID.
2. You can't throw in and compare it to the last 18 months of flu because flu disappeared. You also can't compare flu deaths year over year to COVID since the beginning. Talk about fuzzy math. But, we know comparing COVID year to year, even with the inflated number, to flu year to year. flu deaths can range anywhere from 2x-5x COVID deaths, depending on how bad the flu season is.
3. From other articles posted on the forum, we also know long COVID is also a minimal concern in children, and long flu is much more of a danger.
4. You guys also seem to fails to understand the concept of marginal utility. Decreasing the risk of death [not actual numbers] from 8x to 3x in a person over 60 is a huge deal. Deceasing the chances of death in a child from .01% to .005% is just simply not as much of a big of a deal. Further, given the new dosing, we don't know exactly how much of a benefit against death/hospitalization/long COVID the vaccine is going to be...again the test numbers were very very limited (a good read is the 1 FDA member who wrote out his dissent to support his abstention vote).
5. On the cost end, we simply don't know what the risks are....again because the sample size is so small....particularly in boys.
6. So you guys are just guessing like everyone else. Far more honest to say "I'm scared of the virus" just like the other side is "scared of the vaccine". You may as well throw a dart at a dart board. It's why we are now in a booster conversation....because pharma and the FDA may have made a mistake and those initial mRNA shots should have been spaced out more....but they didn't know what they didn't know.

...another 2 casualties falling prey to The Gracey Theory in short order...to tie it back to a soccer forum...like watching U-Littles attempting to play in the World Cup.

 

[watfly]

So, you're saying everyone is scared? Personally I'm not scared at all. We take guidance from our doctors, seeking second opinions when necessary. I'm not scared of my kids dying via covid or the vaccination. Sure there are some quack doctors out there (some of you have even posted links by or including them), but I do believe far more doctors actually know what they're talking about versus those that do not. Who would you trust? Someone who claims to be super smart and spends a significant amount of their waking life on a soccer forum (talking about covid) versus scientists/doctors who have spent many years in their field of study?

I trust those that treat Covid on a front-line basis the most. I also rely on the actual data over the opinions of scientists, epidemiologists etc. I'm a show me, not tell me type of person. Trust, but verify.

I also trust what I've personally experienced over what others tell me I should experience. While that may be considered anecdotal, its human nature to trust those instincts.

 

[watfly]

…but if it forced the sale of the Chargers? I’m conflicted.

Yes there should be a Spanos exception.

 

[Grace T.]

So, you're saying everyone is scared? Personally I'm not scared at all. We take guidance from our doctors, seeking second opinions when necessary. I'm not scared of my kids dying via covid or the vaccination. Sure there are some quack doctors out there (some of you have even posted links by or including them), but I do believe far more doctors actually know what they're talking about versus those that do not. Who would you trust? Someone who claims to be super smart and spends a significant amount of their waking life on a soccer forum (talking about covid) versus scientists/doctors who have spent many years in their field of study?

I refer you to the prior article I posted regarding the experience of the mom and the so-called experts. I refer you to the prior post I posted with my drug resistant UTI that almost killed me and would have if I "trusted the experts". COVID would also probably have killed me if I had "trusted the experts" and not advocated.

Further, other countries have come out with different opinions about vaccinating the under 18 year olds, and there is a substantial minority (including the expert who absented and wrote a dissent on the FDA panel) so we know opinion isn't uniform.

Further, the experts at this point are really just guess (guessing with more info than the lay person, but nevertheless guessing) so you aren't trust a medical fact or even The Science TM but the guess of an expert. It's why it's possible (if you believe in boosters) that they got the spread among the 2 initial shots wrong.

But if you are going to trust a guess, I think you give good advice to trust a doctor that you trust. My only caution would be when dealing with so-called experts "trust but verify" is a pretty good maxim. Also remember some of the experts are tainted by the fact they are in bed with big pharma and there's a lot of money at stake here (which is likely why the expert FDA member instead of dissenting abstained).

I'm not advocating that you trust me. I'm advocating for people to think critically. In fact, I'm quite neutral over the issue of individual choice to vaccinating kids so long as we acknowledge (if you really aren't scared either way) that what you are doing is throwing a dart at the dart board since the data is so very weak. It's the same reason I oppose a vaccine mandate for kids, because if we are just throwing darts, its entirely logical to end up with the conclusion you shouldn't vaccinate your kid.

 

[NorCalDad]

If AYSO wasn't "half bad" club soccer wouldn't have imploded like it did. There were two big problems with AYSO: the knowledge gap for coaches (which as more people grew up that went through the program and new training materials came out, became less of an issue), that it wasn't year round (some kids just want to do soccer and some don't want to be forced to do soccer/basketball/baseball every year), and that it wasn't tiered. This last issue AYSO stubbornly refused to address, which is why the brutal pay to play system arose.

My experience with AYSO goes back a loooong time ago. What you describe doesn't sound great, but local rec leagues up here are even worse.