Vaccine

[Grace T.]

So? An epidemiologist predicts we all are going to start paying more attention to viruses. Should I be surprised?

Next you’ll tell me that there is a famous computer geek who thinks we all will start using cryptography. Or an aviation enthusiast who thinks flying cars are the way of the future.

People who write futurist articles tend to see themselves as a key part of the future. It’s just they way we think. Maybe I should write an article about how kids in the future will all study really hard in their STEM classes.

I would love to read that article.

The reason the Gottlieb article is interesting is because he at least somewhat has the ear of Fauci and the health expert establishment. Some of us, you'll recall said some portion of the population would not want to return to normal and would want masks everytime a bad flu season came around. He is as influential as they come outside the government.

 

[dad4]

I would love to read that article.

The reason the Gottlieb article is interesting is because he at least somewhat has the ear of Fauci and the health expert establishment. Some of us, you'll recall said some portion of the population would not want to return to normal and would want masks everytime a bad flu season came around. He is as influential as they come outside the government.

Masks during flu season are pretty common in east Asia, and have been for a while now. They seem to get along ok over there.

I think we get back to “normal” if and when covid vax rates get up to where measles vax rates are.

 

[dad4]

...or maybe just provide one long term Covid vax study.

Wouldn’t matter. We have great long term vax studies on all sorts of vaccines. It doesn’t stop the anti-vax folks from convincing each other that they need to spread measles around Disneyland.

The anti-vax loons have been around for decades. They just finally found people gullible enough to believe them this time.

 

[Grace T.]

Masks during flu season are pretty common in east Asia, and have been for a while now. They seem to get along ok over there.

I think we get back to “normal” if and when covid vax rates get up to where measles vax rates are.

What counts as a vaxx to you: first shot (doesn't natural immunity count), first shot + the Biden booster, or repeated yearly vaxx like a flu shot (in which case that's a pipe dream).

 

[dad4]

What counts as a vaxx to you: first shot (doesn't natural immunity count), first shot + the Biden booster, or repeated yearly vaxx like a flu shot (in which case that's a pipe dream).

It will count when the covid vax is treated like any other vaccine. I can’t say for sure when I am due for my tetanus booster. I just get the shots when the doc tells me.

Now, will covid end up being annual, biannual, decennial, or just a childhood innocuoation? I don’t know, and I don’t need to know. That’s the point. We will have normal when we stop second guessing everything.

 

[watfly]

Wouldn’t matter. We have great long term vax studies on all sorts of vaccines. It doesn’t stop the anti-vax folks from convincing each other that they need to spread measles around Disneyland.

The anti-vax loons have been around for decades. They just finally found people gullible enough to believe them this time.

You're correct that the anti-vax loons will always be anti-vax regardless of the studies, but they're a very small percentage. If you look at the vaccination rate for other vaccines like polio and measles the rate is very high. I believe two reasons for that 1) the vaccines are highly effective and 2) have been proven safe over a period of years. The Covid vaccine is more like a flu vaccine in that it doesn't have near the efficacy of well established vaccines. In a good year, only about 50% of the population get a flu vaccine. 50% of the population is not anti-vax.

 

[Grace T.]

It will count when the covid vax is treated like any other vaccine. I can’t say for sure when I am due for my tetanus booster. I just get the shots when the doc tells me.

Now, will covid end up being annual, biannual, decennial, or just a childhood innocuoation? I don’t know, and I don’t need to know. That’s the point. We will have normal when we stop second guessing everything.

Well...there's a huge difference. If it's 1 vaxx (and natural immunity counts too from a robust infection) well then we're almost as high as measles. If it's the Biden booster, you are saying we won't get back to normal for a very long time....if it's the one booster and done (like chicken pox) I think you blew that when Biden came out with the mandate....it's going to make a lot of people dig in their heels including those that went along and got the first...they traded some people who might go along to get a long and were reluctant (maybe because they've had COVID) for a bunch of people that are digging in their heels now on principle. If it's like tetanus, even harder...how many adults aren't current on their tetanus vaccines....children have a captured pediatrics schedule they need to maintain for school....some adults don't even go to the dentist....now you are in having to go and drag people to their shot or ostracize them from society territory. If it's like flu, you are saying we are never getting to normal.

 

[Grace T.]

Up to 1/2 of hospitalizations might be mild cases.

Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning

A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.

www.theatlantic.com

p.s. this number may rise because of the antibody treatment since it usually requires (temporary admittance).

 

[Grace T.]

Hmmm....even nature is on the cloth masks don't reduce transmission bandwagon.

Face masks for COVID pass their largest test yet

A rigorous study finds that surgical masks are highly protective, but cloth masks fall short.

www.nature.com

 

[met61]

Wouldn’t matter. We have great long term vax studies on all sorts of vaccines. It doesn’t stop the anti-vax folks from convincing each other that they need to spread measles around Disneyland.

The anti-vax loons have been around for decades. They just finally found people gullible enough to believe them this time.

...so trust us. Right?

 

[dad4]

Hmmm....even nature is on the cloth masks don't reduce transmission bandwagon.

Face masks for COVID pass their largest test yet

A rigorous study finds that surgical masks are highly protective, but cloth masks fall short.

www.nature.com

Same study. And same failure to understand confidence intervals.

Let me know if you see a take from someone who can distinguish between “not proven” and “proven false.”

 

[Grace T.]

Same study. And same failure to understand confidence intervals.

Let me know if you see a take from someone who can distinguish between “not proven” and “proven false.”

It's not like Nature, though, is some right wing or fringe rag. Of course it doesn't go to the merits of the study (As I noted, there's a lot of problems with the study that cuts both ways). But it's interesting it's taking hold of the narrative, including nature of all places.

 

[what-happened]

Up to 1/2 of hospitalizations might be mild cases.

Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning

A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.

www.theatlantic.com

p.s. this number may rise because of the antibody treatment since it usually requires (temporary admittance).

Happened pre-delta as well AND has always happened. The hopitalization designation is largely an administration function, a simple checking of a box. I'm sure most were admitted for due cause but enough are admitted every year that should not have been admitted. Just the way it goes.

Now what's happening is that being admitted to the hospitcal is being weaponized, just like everything esle. Too funny. It's a process implemented by humans, humans who are often operating in a high stress environment.

 

[dad4]

It's not like Nature, though, is some right wing or fringe rag. Of course it doesn't go to the merits of the study (As I noted, there's a lot of problems with the study that cuts both ways). But it's interesting it's taking hold of the narrative, including nature of all places.

Plenty of peer reviewed papers make that mistake: “I didn’t get my 95%, therefore I have just proven the is no correlation.”

No surprise, even for Nature. It’s the most common error in stats.

Provong a lack of correlation is hard. You don’t get it for free every time your study comes up short.

 

[crush]

Let's play "Keeping The Score."

If you’re keeping score, the virus is so deadly, so dangerous, and the vaccine so “safe and effective”, that:

• Obama had a birthday bash with hundreds of unmasked people, and they were directed not to post pics of the event.
• Members of congress and their staff are exempt from the current vaccine mandate.
• Immigrants coming through the southern border are exempt from the current vaccine mandate.
• Mask mandates, portrayed as dire, have gone into effect “in three days”, “next Monday”, etc.
• NSW was caught using crisis actors for their sob-fest “get the vaccine” propaganda news stories.
• Ivermectin is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, used every day for hundreds of millions of humans for other ailments, but all news outlets have labeled it “horse dewormer” and anyone who uses it a quack.
• The hospital reported as turning away gunshot victims because they’re overrun with ivermectin overdoses had to release a statement as to the falsehood of that report.
• Anthony Fauci, expert on all things virus and vaccine related, won't answer the question if people who’ve had Covid need the vaccine.
• Boy's photo is used in multiple random stories as youngest Covid death.
• The virus is so dangerous, masks can be removed at restaurant tables, but not while walking to table.
• Despite millions of Americans being vaccinated, Covid cases are higher this year than last.

Feel free to add to the list...

 

[watfly]

Plenty of peer reviewed papers make that mistake: “I didn’t get my 95%, therefore I have just proven the is no correlation.”

No surprise, even for Nature. It’s the most common error in stats.

Provong a lack of correlation is hard. You don’t get it for free every time your study comes up short.

So we have gone from cherry picking studies to cherry picking the conclusions from the same study.

Maybe you're right in this case, but how then do we sort through what's misinformation or not? The misinformation is coming from all sides and directions.

 

[crush]

So we have gone from cherry picking studies to cherry picking the conclusions from the same study.

Maybe you're right in this case, but how then do we sort through what's misinformation or not? The misinformation is coming from all sides and directions.

Hey bro, are you going to obey Joe and force vax? I thought you said you had over 100+ workers at your plant? Is that correct?

 

[watfly]

Hey bro, are you going to obey Joe and force vax? I thought you said you had over 100+ workers at your plant? Is that correct?

We are below 100, so no. I don't see anyway that happens legally or logistically. You have to be complete unmitigated idiot to even propose such a rule particularly when businesses are struggling to find employees. It defies logic.

 

[GoldenGate]

So we have gone from cherry picking studies to cherry picking the conclusions from the same study.

Maybe you're right in this case, but how then do we sort through what's misinformation or not? The misinformation is coming from all sides and directions.

Easy. When 50 studies establish that Covid-19 vaccines do not negatively impact fertility, that is credible. When desert hound cuts and pastes an anti-vax manifesto by an anonymous "pathologist/veteran/graduate of good undisclosed medical school who went to had a prestigious unidentified residency" form a fringe conspiracy website that even he is too embarrassed to identify, that is not credible. When you deny 50 studies because "you never know" and "only time will tell", and "we don't have crystal balls", that is not credible. When you are on the same side as crush on any issue, you are not credible. If you are on the same side as someone who believes that local elected officials adopting local ordinances is a "dictatorship", you also are not credible. And you are not credible if you are on the same side as someone who believes "strict construction" of a constitutional provision stating that a county may make and enforce "all local, police, sanitary, and other ordinances ... not in conflict with general laws", should be interpreted to add "except mask mandates".

 

[Grace T.]

We are below 100, so no. I don't see anyway that happens legally or logistically. You have to be complete unmitigated idiot to even propose such a rule particularly when businesses are struggling to find employees. It defies logic.

Legally, they have a twin problem:

-Does OSHA have that statutory authority to enact such a rule, and does Biden have the authority via executive order to have OSHA do so. It's complicated (and not as easy as the R governor make it seem) but Chevron has been on its last legs for a while.
-Does this exceed the scope of the powers of the federal government under the Constitution and does that power displace that of the states (some of whom have banned such mandates).

It's this last question which is the more troubling of the two. It sets up a state sovereignty clash which the red states are not likely to let go of. It's the whole ball of wax when it comes to their view of limited v. unlimited government.