Vaccine

espola said:
Lady asks cop to give her 6 feet because he is unmasked. Cop says "I don't need a mask because <unintelligible>"


She needed a bigger dog.
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1. At least the doggo tried to defend her. More than I can probably say for my doggo.
2. Looks like he says because "we're outside".
3. That's the stupid thing about mask rules. If the police officer does in fact have COVID and is screaming at her in her face, or is handling her, she can totally can get COVID from him, outdoors or indoors from that close contact. The question then becomes would wearing a mask have given the lady any protection, and my question back would be what type of mask.
4. It's an illustration of what flows from mask rules. You have "normal" and you have varying degrees of "anxious". There isn't some middle area on the dial. You tell people they aren't safe and need to mask (anywhere) and you get this.
 
Grace T. said:
But policy is made on data. Not on the basis that it's scary or "think of the children". I agree it's an important question. I agree it's the key question for determining which approach (UK v. Israel) is the correct one. I agree it needs to be studied, ASAP. But right now, the data isn't there to support the notion that long COVID is actually a significant problem in children (the other relevant question being whether long COVID is a significant factor in vaccinated adults). If this data isn't presented soon, other factors (like politics) will force the choice. If you are saying it's difficult/nearly impossible to get that data, particularly given the limited time period that has passed, well then politics in the end will decide it.
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My impression of those most likely to say "think of the children" are those who claim that being masked in school somehow ruins their childhood.
 
Grace T. said:
If you believe 90% is the number we need for herd immunity, and if vaccine immunity reduces over time, you'd want community spread (at least among the vaccinated). That's different than Roadrunner's argument which is unvaccinated children may suffer long term side effect, notwithstanding low deaths, so we don't want to hit that 90% number.
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Why would I want community spread? We have every reason to believe that a vaccinated population with masks does not grow Delta.

CDC estimates that about 2.7% of the population is immunocompromised in some way. That sounds high, but start counting. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, people with auto immune diseases, and so on... That is a lot of people who are difficult or impossible to vaccinate. You think I’d want to put them at risk just to pander to some anti-vax conspiracy theory? Heck no. Just get your shots.
 
Grace T. said:
1. At least the doggo tried to defend her. More than I can probably say for my doggo.
2. Looks like he says because "we're outside".
3. That's the stupid thing about mask rules. If the police officer does in fact have COVID and is screaming at her in her face, or is handling her, she can totally can get COVID from him, outdoors or indoors from that close contact. The question then becomes would wearing a mask have given the lady any protection, and my question back would be what type of mask.
4. It's an illustration of what flows from mask rules. You have "normal" and you have varying degrees of "anxious". There isn't some middle area on the dial. You tell people they aren't safe and need to mask (anywhere) and you get this.
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You don't need a mask when you are outside as long as you respect the 2-meter rule, as I understand it. Standards may be different in Chicago.

The cop obviously needs to be retrained since at no time In this encounter do we hear him say "Stop resisting".
 
dad4 said:
Why would I want community spread? We have every reason to believe that a vaccinated population with masks does not grow Delta.

CDC estimates that about 2.7% of the population is immunocompromised in some way. That sounds high, but start counting. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, people with auto immune diseases, and so on... That is a lot of people who are difficult or impossible to vaccinate. You think I’d want to put them at risk just to pander to some anti-vax conspiracy theory? Heck no. Just get your shots.
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That's hilarious. See Israel.

See also my personal case study: 11 participants in an outdoor BBQ. All had COVID or were fully vaxxed. Wore masks except while eating. The 3 non vaxxed with COVID did not come down with COVID again despite testing and despite taking in patient zero. Patient zero was fully vaxxed and a bit of a COVID paranoid who always wore an N95 and probably came down with it at her job. 4 of the 6 vaxxed people came down with COVID, 1 seriously, 1 asymptomatic, 2 with the sniffles.

Absolutely get your vax. The question, though, is whether we are going to keep vaxxing people with boosters or just have them catch it and go with natural immunity. If the later, you want community spread while vaccine immunity, which seems to decline with time, is high.
 
espola said:
You don't need a mask when you are outside as long as you respect the 2-meter rule, as I understand it. Standards may be different in Chicago.

The cop obviously needs to be retrained since at no time In this encounter do we hear him say "Stop resisting".
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But he wasn't respecting the 2 m rule, which is what set off the incident
 
Grace T. said:
That's hilarious. See Israel.

See also my personal case study: 11 participants in an outdoor BBQ. All had COVID or were fully vaxxed. Wore masks except while eating. The 3 non vaxxed with COVID did not come down with COVID again despite testing and despite taking in patient zero. Patient zero was fully vaxxed and a bit of a COVID paranoid who always wore an N95 and probably came down with it at her job. 4 of the 6 vaxxed people came down with COVID, 1 seriously, 1 asymptomatic, 2 with the sniffles.

Absolutely get your vax. The question, though, is whether we are going to keep vaxxing people with boosters or just have them catch it and go with natural immunity. If the later, you want community spread while vaccine immunity, which seems to decline with time, is high.
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Israel? They aren’t highly vaxxed. Maybe they are by your definiton, but your definition of “highly vaxxed” is not the same as Delta’s definiton of highly vaxxed.

Duke’s county in MA is 88% vaccinated. 88% of total pop. That is enough to keep them near steady state. Not decline. Just almost stable.

Israel is at 60%. Why on earth would 60% be enough for Delta? Delta is known to be growing in dozens of places with a 60% overall vax rate.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Oh?? Lol!
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Since you appear unlikely to share your little joke, does the following capture what you are trying to say?

1) Official case tallies of the MERS and SARS outbreaks are actually gross underestimates.
2) In reality, both were global pandemics of comparable magnitude to what we have with CoV-2.
3) However, due to a relative dearth of PCR testing and (presumably) other broad-population assessments of infection, the true scale of the MERS and SARS pandemics went undetected.
4) Additionally, fatalities associated with the proposed MERS and SARS pandemics essentially did not produce a signal over the day-to-day noise of people dying of all kinds of things.
5) Therefore, the only reason anybody is making any kind of fuss over CoV-2 is that a push for PCR testing revealed the scale of it, otherwise we'd all have kept skipping down the path on our merry way.
 
dad4 said:
Israel? They aren’t highly vaxxed. Maybe they are by your definiton, but your definition of “highly vaxxed” is not the same as Delta’s definiton of highly vaxxed.

Duke’s county in MA is 88% vaccinated. 88% of total pop. That is enough to keep them near steady state. Not decline. Just almost stable.

Israel is at 60%. Why on earth would 60% be enough for Delta? Delta is known to be growing in dozens of places with a 60% overall vax rate.
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Under your definition no country then is highly vaxxed. Per The Guardian's tracker, Israel is as 153 doses per 100 people, with only Iceland (also having problems) and Uruguay higher.

As for Duke county, the problem again is part of that 88% month to month is going to fall in effectiveness so even if they hit 90% it will continue to fall from there. That's the problem...if you think the number is 90%, and if the vaccine drops in effectiveness over time, there's no way to get there using the Gottlieb/Israeli approach....it's the UK/Denmark/Singapore or bust then.
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
Since you appear unlikely to share your little joke, does the following capture what you are trying to say?

1) Official case tallies of the MERS and SARS outbreaks are actually gross underestimates.
2) In reality, both were global pandemics of comparable magnitude to what we have with CoV-2.
3) However, due to a relative dearth of PCR testing and (presumably) other broad-population assessments of infection, the true scale of the MERS and SARS pandemics went undetected.
4) Additionally, fatalities associated with the proposed MERS and SARS pandemics essentially did not produce a signal over the day-to-day noise of people dying of all kinds of things.
5) Therefore, the only reason anybody is making any kind of fuss over CoV-2 is that a push for PCR testing revealed the scale of it, otherwise we'd all have kept skipping down the path on our merry way.
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No, that wasn't at all what I was trying to say. Is that what you are trying to say?
 
dad4 said:
Why would I want community spread? We have every reason to believe that a vaccinated population with masks does not grow Delta.

CDC estimates that about 2.7% of the population is immunocompromised in some way. That sounds high, but start counting. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, people with auto immune diseases, and so on... That is a lot of people who are difficult or impossible to vaccinate. You think I’d want to put them at risk just to pander to some anti-vax conspiracy theory? Heck no. Just get your shots.
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Your technocrat bent is showing again.
 
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