Vaccine

kickingandscreaming said:
I thought the same thing when I read it.
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The key is whether as the Israelis believe you need a booster every 6-8 months. If so they will, short of dragging people to get shots or ostracizing them from any civilization, never get it to 90%. You are losing significant percentages every month that you have to get revaxxed. If that really is the number as dad insists, there’s no choice but to go full uk

with Denmark, Sweden and Norway now looking towards the Uk approach, it sets up a significant clash with countries like France which have been with the vaccine passports leaning more towards the Israeli approach

The world is drifting to 5 approaches: uk/Denmark/Singapore favoring natural immunity after vax, Israel and Canada with boosters, zero covid in China oz nz, too poor to do anything in much of the world and the us mess of two very different trends. We’ll see how it shakes out.
 
espola said:
From the actual study, not the politicized opinion of it --

" In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission and should be encouraged during outbreak situations. "
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You know.... versus mandated dear. Speaking of politicized.
 
dad4 said:
The message is not simply "stay home if you are sick". The school districts already put out that message. They even give us checklists and have us mark the checklist every morning: "Time for school. Come on, kids. Get zapped."

Guess what? Some fraction of symptomatic people go to school anyway. They think it is a cold, or allergies. Or they never noticed the fever, because they forgot to take their temperature. And there they are in a room with 18 to 30 other people. Maybe they shouldn't be there, but they are
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Dad. 72 million kids 17 and under. 350 deaths.

Your example above is phobia, not reality.

As many time you like to talk about mitigation measures at schools.. it doesn't matter. The data shows there is no issue.

Your the math guy.72 million with 350 deaths. Based on that attempt to justify your preferred mitigation efforts.

Lay it on us
 
Grace T. said:
The key is whether as the Israelis believe you need a booster every 6-8 months. If so they will, short of dragging people to get shots or ostracizing them from any civilization, never get it to 90%. You are losing significant percentages every month that you have to get revaxxed. If that really is the number as dad insists, there’s no choice but to go full uk

with Denmark, Sweden and Norway now looking towards the Uk approach, it sets up a significant clash with countries like France which have been with the vaccine passports leaning more towards the Israeli approach

The world is drifting to 5 approaches: uk/Denmark/Singapore favoring natural immunity after vax, Israel and Canada with boosters, zero covid in China oz nz, too poor to do anything in much of the world and the us mess of two very different trends. We’ll see how it shakes out.
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This is already getting a lot more interesting than I imagined a few months back.
 
Grace T. said:
The key is whether as the Israelis believe you need a booster every 6-8 months. If so they will, short of dragging people to get shots or ostracizing them from any civilization, never get it to 90%. You are losing significant percentages every month that you have to get revaxxed. If that really is the number as dad insists, there’s no choice but to go full uk

with Denmark, Sweden and Norway now looking towards the Uk approach, it sets up a significant clash with countries like France which have been with the vaccine passports leaning more towards the Israeli approach

The world is drifting to 5 approaches: uk/Denmark/Singapore favoring natural immunity after vax, Israel and Canada with boosters, zero covid in China oz nz, too poor to do anything in much of the world and the us mess of two very different trends. We’ll see how it shakes out.
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Dad wishes to remind you that previous infections help towards the 90%. That’s why I phrased it as 90% or 70% with significant previous infections. Many more was than that to get there, if you think.

My point was simply that Martha’s Vineyard is not showing exponential growth. A very high vax rate appears to be protective.
 
dad4 said:
Dad wishes to remind you that previous infections help towards the 90%. That’s why I phrased it as 90% or 70% with significant previous infections. Many more was than that to get there, if you think.

My point was simply that Martha’s Vineyard is not showing exponential growth. A very high vax rate appears to be protective.
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Yes but my point is if you rely on the vax alone and if the Israelis are right you are going to lose a portion of vaccination protection every month. If it’s true vaxx immunity wanes, and your % is right, the uk approach is the only way to get there (and if so your vaxx passport is meaningless since a % will drop out of immunity every month and the masks assuming they even work against the delta are counter productive to ending this…if 90% is the number you’d want vaccinated people to fall ill). That’s a pretty scary proposition for a lot of people and I’m not 100% there yet.

btw I wouldn’t expect exponential growth out of Martha’s Vineyard right now….low density housing, out of seasonality, high and still recent vaxx rate. Even the p town superspreader event didn’t lead to exponential growth in the surrounding area. Even sturgis didn’t in the dakotas.
 
Grace T. said:
Yes but my point is if you rely on the vax alone and if the Israelis are right you are going to lose a portion of vaccination protection every month. If it’s true vaxx immunity wanes, and your % is right, the uk approach is the only way to get there (and if so your vaxx passport is meaningless since a % will drop out of immunity every month and the masks assuming they even work against the delta are counter productive to ending this…if 90% is the number you’d want vaccinated people to fall ill). That’s a pretty scary proposition for a lot of people and I’m not 100% there yet.

btw I wouldn’t expect exponential growth out of Martha’s Vineyard right now….low density housing, out of seasonality, high and still recent vaxx rate. Even the p town superspreader event didn’t lead to exponential growth in the surrounding area. Even sturgis didn’t in the dakotas.
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Who cares if you or I “want” 90%? That seems to be what is required. One way or another we will get there.

The only remaining question is how many choose Pfizer and how many choose Delta. Both work. Just expect a heavy thumb on the scale from businesses who would like to reopen their offices.
 
Grace T. said:
Yes but my point is if you rely on the vax alone and if the Israelis are right you are going to lose a portion of vaccination protection every month. If it’s true vaxx immunity wanes, and your % is right, the uk approach is the only way to get there (and if so your vaxx passport is meaningless since a % will drop out of immunity every month and the masks assuming they even work against the delta are counter productive to ending this…if 90% is the number you’d want vaccinated people to fall ill). That’s a pretty scary proposition for a lot of people and I’m not 100% there yet.

btw I wouldn’t expect exponential growth out of Martha’s Vineyard right now….low density housing, out of seasonality, high and still recent vaxx rate. Even the p town superspreader event didn’t lead to exponential growth in the surrounding area. Even sturgis didn’t in the dakotas.
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www.nbcnews.com

South Dakota Covid cases quintuple after Sturgis motorcycle rally

Meade County, home to Sturgis, has had a more than 1,500 percent increase in cases in the past 14 days.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
dad4 said:
Who cares if you or I “want” 90%? That seems to be what is required. One way or another we will get there.

The only remaining question is how many choose Pfizer and how many choose Delta. Both work. Just expect a heavy thumb on the scale from businesses who would like to reopen their offices.
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The problem, again, is if: a) the 90% is true and b) the 90% reduces over time, you can’t get there with boosters because part of it goes away every month. And who cares? You do…because you like masks and vaccine passports….if you use natural immunity you want to get there as fast as possible while immunity is high which means the masks are useless except to make people feel better. Unless you are going to force everyone to get vaxxed repeatedly what you are advocating for makes no sense.

the offices are in a hopeless dilemma in blue states. They can’t reopen while there’s a mask mandate and people are urged to social distance: the masks from the prior article are already a drag on people returning to employment, white collar workers who can work from home won’t tolerate it, the air circulation and density in most buildings are poor, and while you have mask mandates you’ve given everyone a signal it’s not safe yet. Most employees in big companies have been told they’ll need to vaxx and despite a high uptick among white collar workers in blue areas (in blue areas they aren’t the problem) most offices are still shuttered or on restricted capacity. Then there’s testing and quarantine:classrooms are still getting disrupted even in red states due to exposures and what do you do then if someone in an office becomes exposed. The entire point of an office environment is collaboration and socialization which isn’t possible if you are still social distancing. The big company hrs are pulling their hair over this right now.
 
Grace T. said:
The problem, again, is if: a) the 90% is true and b) the 90% reduces over time, you can’t get there with boosters because part of it goes away every month. And who cares? You do…because you like masks and vaccine passports….if you use natural immunity you want to get there as fast as possible while immunity is high which means the masks are useless except to make people feel better. Unless you are going to force everyone to get vaxxed repeatedly what you are advocating for makes no sense.

the offices are in a hopeless dilemma in blue states. They can’t reopen while there’s a mask mandate and people are urged to social distance: the masks from the prior article are already a drag on people returning to employment, white collar workers who can work from home won’t tolerate it, the air circulation and density in most buildings are poor, and while you have mask mandates you’ve given everyone a signal it’s not safe yet. Most employees in big companies have been told they’ll need to vaxx and despite a high uptick among white collar workers in blue areas (in blue areas they aren’t the problem) most offices are still shuttered or on restricted capacity. Then there’s testing and quarantine:classrooms are still getting disrupted even in red states due to exposures and what do you do then if someone in an office becomes exposed. The entire point of an office environment is collaboration and socialization which isn’t possible if you are still social distancing. The big company hrs are pulling their hair over this right now.
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dad4 said:
Who cares if you or I “want” 90%? That seems to be what is required. One way or another we will get there.

The only remaining question is how many choose Pfizer and how many choose Delta. Both work. Just expect a heavy thumb on the scale from businesses who would like to reopen their offices.
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In your world, at what point should the government stop f'ing with people over this thing?
 
Desert Hound said:
Dad. 72 million kids 17 and under. 350 deaths.

Your example above is phobia, not reality.

As many time you like to talk about mitigation measures at schools.. it doesn't matter. The data shows there is no issue.

Your the math guy.72 million with 350 deaths. Based on that attempt to justify your preferred mitigation efforts.

Lay it on us
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What rate of damage from COVID-19 to individuals directly and indirectly (from areas where the medical systems are highly impacted) do you find acceptable? -(btw, you know your 350 number is outdated, in 0-17 it is currently 496). I agree the death rate is far higher in older age groups, but you also know infected kids do pass on the virus to other age groups.

There's also the issue of long covid, where symptoms continue in kids more than 4-12 weeks post infection. Long covid symptoms are not necessarily tied to the severity of the initial infection. It's a challenge to study in part because there are not clearly defined diagnostic criteria for adults or kids. (Brain fog, fatigue/exhaustion, headache, There have been studies around the world trying to get an estimate for the percentage of kids that develop long covid. The numbers seem to range from 1% to 10% in kids 2-16. The ages included in these studies varied a bit. (These would be data from the older SARS-cov2 variants, not delta.).
 
Roadrunner said:
What rate of damage from COVID-19 to individuals directly and indirectly (from areas where the medical systems are highly impacted) do you find acceptable? -(btw, you know your 350 number is outdated, in 0-17 it is currently 496). I agree the death rate is far higher in older age groups, but you also know infected kids do pass on the virus to other age groups.

There's also the issue of long covid, where symptoms continue in kids more than 4-12 weeks post infection. Long covid symptoms are not necessarily tied to the severity of the initial infection. It's a challenge to study in part because there are not clearly defined diagnostic criteria for adults or kids. (Brain fog, fatigue/exhaustion, headache, There have been studies around the world trying to get an estimate for the percentage of kids that develop long covid. The numbers seem to range from 1% to 10% in kids 2-16. The ages included in these studies varied a bit. (These would be data from the older SARS-cov2 variants, not delta.).
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It's a challenge to study long covid because no one has had it very long.

Irrelevant anecdote -- my cousin (born in the '40s) had rheumatic fever as a child and was believed to be fully recovered. When he tried to join the Air Force after high school, he flunked the entrance physical exam due to a heart murmur.
 
Looks like the Communist and Elitist are out in full force this morning spewing lies & more lies. These losers use kids as pawns & shields and use US Marines to make money and destroy other peoples way of life. True MOFOs!!! You fools are not being very nice and you're so exposed as the lairs that your are. Some are scared these days with real fear.

www.bitchute.com

NEVER GIVE THEM AN INCH!!!

www.bitchute.com
 
Roadrunner said:
What rate of damage from COVID-19 to individuals directly and indirectly (from areas where the medical systems are highly impacted) do you find acceptable? -(btw, you know your 350 number is outdated, in 0-17 it is currently 496). I agree the death rate is far higher in older age groups, but you also know infected kids do pass on the virus to other age groups.

There's also the issue of long covid, where symptoms continue in kids more than 4-12 weeks post infection. Long covid symptoms are not necessarily tied to the severity of the initial infection. It's a challenge to study in part because there are not clearly defined diagnostic criteria for adults or kids. (Brain fog, fatigue/exhaustion, headache, There have been studies around the world trying to get an estimate for the percentage of kids that develop long covid. The numbers seem to range from 1% to 10% in kids 2-16. The ages included in these studies varied a bit. (These would be data from the older SARS-cov2 variants, not delta.).
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The numbers arent as high at 10%. At 10% we’d be seeing a wave of news stories and parent protests. That’s just fear mongering. The upper bound all ages for all children seems to be 2% but that includes things like persistent cough (im at 8 weeks with a cough long rsv). But that doesn’t include, as you say, what we really care about which is debilitating covid for a year or more. At this point however it’s been more than a year with prime so the burden of proof really is on the lockdown forever school at this point.
 
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