Vaccine

[crush]

Tragic Breaking News: Mother Died Unexpectedly in Her Sleep in Front of Her Kids While on a Flight from Hong Kong to UK.

SADS is real folks and the losers who have lied, cheated and stole from us have only one place to go when this is all over and they all know it. It's just a matter of time. So many are dying and the psycho's and their pals just want to talk mask BS. These selfish fathers and trolls only care about one thing. I don't mention the deaths of frens or frens of frens anymore because it's happening everyday now and it's frankly depressing to chat about. RIP to all those who will die from SADS, it truly is sad and if you get the Monkeypox, I'm also sad for you. I heard that a wife and her kids got it from hubby who was living a double life and was up to his sneaky old ways. You will all get exposed sooner rather than later and Karma will bite you in the ass at the right time if you don't stop this madness.

 

[crush]

Mid Term Breaking Poll News: Almost 70% of ALL voters are concerned about cheating in the Mid terms. Gee, I wonder why? These monsters have destroyed people's lives. Asshat dads on here think this is funny and just laugh all this off. Karma is coming!!!

 

[watfly]

"Cases take off after you lift restrictions"

Depends on the restrictions. Again, Los Angeles implemented you indoor dining vision. Didn't help. Los Angeles masking vis-a-vis OC's non didn't help. NZ/Australia restrictions...absolutely...glad you are finally being honest about your preference for them....the question then becomes you willing to trade that for the lives saved. Japan their chief safe guard was the border controls...it help limit the impact from the Olympics but you see what happens when one of the later omicron snuck through.

"That's why smart place kept their restriction in place until after they vaccinated the population"

No. You only needed them in place until the 50 and over crowd was offered the vaccination. You didn't need to force your population to make the decision (they are all adults and can make up their own mind re the risk). You didn't need to wait for the children.

"It worked. Their death rate stayed low. Ours did not."

Yes, it's pretty clear vaccination blunted the impact of deaths. Places with high vaccination uptake, particularly among the elderly, do well (China has it backwards with high vaccination among workers and low among elderly hence their panic over the lockdowns). If you take out the early nursing home deaths (Sweden did the same as NY/NJ in the nursing home), Sweden's excess death rate is on par with Norway (which didn't have masks). Vaccination (the numbers and how early they got it) and, for those nations that chose to implement it, really harsh lockdowns coupled with severe border controls are the only things which made a difference. The rest is serendipity (oh and density/living conditions). That why you have Norway with no masks and loose lockdowns that did so well, and Peru that had harsh long lasting but leaky lockdowns and open borders and masks did so poorly.

The types of restrictions that Dad4 wants/wanted are not culturally viable or logistically feasible in the United States. When you live in a country that values freedom (likely more so than any other country) you have to take the good with the bad. We don't have a switch that we can just flip from individual independence to authoritarian control when politicians think the conditions warrant it. That's why health policy has to be developed that takes into account a population's culture. A one size fits all approach doesn't work across countries, let alone cities and states.

I know we're trying to rewrite history but I have a vague recollection that we declared independence from Britain because of government oppression and that the country was founded on the concepts of freedom, limited government and individual responsibility.

Now individual responsibility doesn't work very well when you don't have accountability. That's why maybe we didn't fare as well as other countries because we didn't have accountability from some citizens, politicians, health experts, etc.

 

[Grace T.]

You still haven't explained why cases in Japan and Australia didn't rise in 2020 and 2021.

If masks and NPI don't work, then Tokyo and Melbourne would have seen an explosion in cases during fall of 2020. They didn't. Something worked, and it wasn't just border controls.

I said NPIs do work. They just need to be the really harsh ones that Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and China did. That's the choice. Really severe lockdowns or Sweden. Everything else whether the harsh leaky lockdowns of Peru, the periodic lockdowns of Europe, the indoor dining ban of Los Angeles, the masks of Germany or the no masks but light lockdowns of Norway failed.

Like I told you as well, I think masks help a little on a case by case basis when the R0 is much lower than it was for Omicron and Delta, particularly if they are a really good mask. Border controls and/or being an island also worked until you got a leak (see also Taiwan besides Japan). You also know I think Asia had some cross reactivity from other coronaviruses because Japan had far less testing, lockdowns and masking than Peru and was far more dense, yet finished better, and the Phillipines had better testing than Japan, more severe masking, and more lockdowns, yet finished substantially worse, and Spain had one of the most severe mask mandates in the world and finished substantially worse. Japan is also, from a cultural point of view, really good at distancing despite the density, where Peru, the Philippines and Spain are certainly not, and it makes a difference if you are masking in separate apartments or masking over tapas laughing with a bunch of friends.

 

[crush]

 

[Grace T.]

I said NPIs do work. They just need to be the really harsh ones that Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and China did. That's the choice. Really severe lockdowns or Sweden. Everything else whether the harsh leaky lockdowns of Peru, the periodic lockdowns of Europe, the indoor dining ban of Los Angeles, the masks of Germany or the no masks but light lockdowns of Norway failed.

Like I told you as well, I think masks help a little on a case by case basis when the R0 is much lower than it was for Omicron and Delta, particularly if they are a really good mask. Border controls and/or being an island also worked until you got a leak (see also Taiwan besides Japan). You also know I think Asia had some cross reactivity from other coronaviruses because Japan had far less testing, lockdowns and masking than Peru and was far more dense, yet finished better, and the Phillipines had better testing than Japan, more severe masking, and more lockdowns, yet finished substantially worse, and Spain had one of the most severe mask mandates in the world and finished substantially worse. Japan is also, from a cultural point of view, really good at distancing despite the density, where Peru, the Philippines and Spain are certainly not, and it makes a difference if you are masking in separate apartments or masking over tapas laughing with a bunch of friends.

In any case, from a policy standpoint (as opposed to moral behavior) I think you can replicate the experience of Australia/New Zealand (you just probably end up in a civil war in the United States both against the BLM protestors and the red states defying you) but you can't replicate what happened in Japan (island, long term masking culture, respectful of distancing while sick, possible coronavirus cross reactivity).

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Japan COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Japan Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Err....look at the numbers....it took off in Australia after they dropped their restrictions. It took off in Japan after the Olympics....there's a lull in June (very tight border controls after the Olympics) and then whoosh! You aren't even looking at the facts anymore....just wholesale making up stuff.

At least you finally admit the solution you like is Australia and New Zealand. I would think in your religion confession would be good for the soul.

So are you switching teams now? Seems you made a great point for mandates and restrictions.

 

[dad4]

I said NPIs do work. They just need to be the really harsh ones that Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and China did. That's the choice. Really severe lockdowns or Sweden. Everything else whether the harsh leaky lockdowns of Peru, the periodic lockdowns of Europe, the indoor dining ban of Los Angeles, the masks of Germany or the no masks but light lockdowns of Norway failed.

Like I told you as well, I think masks help a little on a case by case basis when the R0 is much lower than it was for Omicron and Delta, particularly if they are a really good mask. Border controls and/or being an island also worked until you got a leak (see also Taiwan besides Japan). You also know I think Asia had some cross reactivity from other coronaviruses because Japan had far less testing, lockdowns and masking than Peru and was far more dense, yet finished better, and the Phillipines had better testing than Japan, more severe masking, and more lockdowns, yet finished substantially worse, and Spain had one of the most severe mask mandates in the world and finished substantially worse. Japan is also, from a cultural point of view, really good at distancing despite the density, where Peru, the Philippines and Spain are certainly not, and it makes a difference if you are masking in separate apartments or masking over tapas laughing with a bunch of friends.

So now you say that masks and NPI work somewhat, if you actually follow them. ( If you take the mask off to get drinks with friends, then the mask wont do much good in your purse. )

On that, we agree.

 

[crush]

We live in a world in which 1 in 15 AZ GOP governor voters “forgot” to vote for Secretary of State.
Or is that actually the case? Karrin wants to speak to Kari’s manager about those 55k ballots.
Thanks for reading!

BTW, RIP Olivia Newton-John. We need the men to shape up. I have never in my life been around the weakest and milt toast fathers ever. Total sells outs and not real man at all.

 

[crush]

Rhino Liz's hubby is partners with the lawyer who represents Hunter and the Lap top from hell. I mean this is insane and little psycho and his bros on here love Liz & Dick so much. They hated Dick in 2001 but sure love him now because he hate Trump & says Trump is the most dangerous American in the last 246 years.

 

[Grace T.]

So now you say that masks and NPI work somewhat, if you actually follow them. ( If you take the mask off to get drinks with friends, then the mask wont do much good in your purse. )

On that, we agree.

Again you are moralizing and I’m doing policy. Short of mask police there’s no way to force people to mask properly therefore there’s no way to macro it up

you know something else that would have helped that did in Japan? Weight loss. Los Angeles would have been better off forcing people to eat sushi, taxing them for every pound gained and opening the outdoor facilities than what they did which is another huge difference between Japan and the phillipines.

 

[Grace T.]

So are you switching teams now? Seems you made a great point for mandates and restrictions.

I’m saying the choice is real long last thing and very harsh mandates and restrictions v none at all. Everything else is just theater.

 

[crush]

Again you are moralizing and I’m doing policy. Short of mask police there’s no way to force people to mask properly therefore there’s no way to macro it up

you know something else that would have helped that did in Japan? Weight loss. Los Angeles would have been better off forcing people to eat sushi, taxing them for every pound gained and opening the outdoor facilities than what they did which is another huge difference between Japan and the phillipines.

Let's be honest Grace T. LA is fat and out of shape and very unhealthy. The fear on people's faces are real. I told everyone 3 years ago and I will say it again, take care of your health #1. I don't eat meat at all and only go veggies, fruits and more veggies. I love Avo toast and potato tacos. I drink only water. No booze. I walk and swim for exercise. The fat dads I know all wear masks and they live in fear.

 

[Happened again]

Cases take off after you lift restrictions.

That’s why smart places kept their restrictions in place until after they vaccinated the population.

It worked. Their death rate stayed low. Ours did not.

man, if only one thing worked to keep death rates low...too bad American society tends to be on the unhealthy side...that kinda skews things...

 

[crush]

man, if only one thing worked to keep death rates low...too bad American society tends to be on the unhealthy side...that kinda skews things...

So many kids of today are obese, lazy, play video games all day & smoke weed all day. Papa is afraid because he cheated life and is checked out. Remember the movie, "Click?" Fat dad would rather have the healthy & critical thinker be locked out of life, forced jab + boosters plus wear mask forever or lose all the buy & sell gig. This is what happens when dads become fat & lazy. They also cheat their immune system and then force their life style on us. These asshats wanted me to lose everything and folks to get fired two and half years ago. I have it all on tape here. Copa said just use your rainy day funds....lol! So many sold out and rushed to get in line for the Jim Jones Kool Aid jabs and now SADS is everywhere. Everything they lied about is on record. Karma is coming

 

[Grace T.]

So are you switching teams now? Seems you made a great point for mandates and restrictions.

You also seem to be struggling with the twin concepts of coulda v shoulda.

 

[watfly]

That’s why smart places kept their restrictions in place until after they vaccinated the population.

Why would you restrict the activities of those that have been vaccinated because others wouldn't get vaccinated? That makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[dad4]

Again you are moralizing and I’m doing policy. Short of mask police there’s no way to force people to mask properly therefore there’s no way to macro it up

you know something else that would have helped that did in Japan? Weight loss. Los Angeles would have been better off forcing people to eat sushi, taxing them for every pound gained and opening the outdoor facilities than what they did which is another huge difference between Japan and the phillipines.

That's rather close to saying "the advice was good, but we refused to take it."

 

[watfly]

That's rather close to saying "the advice was good, but we refused to take it."

No, its like Biden telling us to go buy electric cars. Maybe a great idea, but not practical or feasible.

 

[Grace T.]

That's rather close to saying "the advice was good, but we refused to take it."

Laws and regulations are political power. Political power is the exercise of force, ultimately backed up at the barrel of the gun. There is no "advice" in a mandate or regulation. That's the difference between policy (which I do) and morality (which is what you do)

I would have been supportive of a public healthy initiative in 2020 that advised people to use good masks, discouraged indoor dining and superspreader events, and encouraged employers to keep workers home. That's a far cry from the Australia/New Zealand regime that you want that arrested people for leaving their houses, left their citizens stranded abroad and prohibited them from leaving, forced people on pain of losing their jobs to get vaccinated, and shut down travel in between the provinces.

You made me laugh BTW. Of course the authoritarian views authoritarian measures as "advice"