Vaccine

[met61]

Mostly, I just want my kids to be able to have a fun experience with sports, and I want the same for other people’s kids.

At the rec level, a trans kid on a youth sports team, like any other kid on a sports team, is a good thing.

As you get closer to college sports, it gets different. All of a sudden, you have tryouts and cuts. It becomes a zero sum game. If Emma has a place, it means that Susie does not.

And, once you make it a zero sum game, fairness really matters. Placing mtf trans athletes in the women’s events is not a fair solution.

...history has proven the road to hell is paved with good intentions...and @dad4, I sincerely believe your intentions are good, just somewhat naive and misguided.

Unfortunately you, and too many like you, make two key mistakes...1. believing if you compromise the truth for rec sports, the left will stop there...2. believing the left has good intentions.

...whereas, the truth speaks for itself...and requires nothing more from you than standing up for it.

 

[dad4]

No one was cut from the Penn swim team to make room for Lia Thomas. Regardless, if you're the worst swimmer on Penn's swim team of more than 40, it is time to move on in life.

If you want your kids to have fun in sports, rec puts a real premium on that, so feel free to steer your kid in that direction. I know it's getting hard to for biological women to find college soccer teams now that trans women have taken over the game and all, so it's beginning to sound like that's the best place for snowflakes anyway.

For the most part, the transgender people I know have opinions closer to Emma or Watfly. They are aware of what treatments can and cannot do, and they are acutely aware of the difficulty of fitting in. Browbeating their way into a women’s sporting event is the last thing they would do.

The vitriol on the left in this comes from gay men who want to believe their own rhetoric, but know no more about transition than the average straight person.

 

[dad4]

...history has proven the road to hell is paved with good intentions...and @dad4, I sincerely believe your intentions are good, just somewhat naive and misguided.

Unfortunately you, and too many like you, make two key mistakes...1. believing if you compromise the truth for rec sports, the left will stop there...2. believing the left has good intentions.

...whereas, the truth speaks for itself...and requires nothing more from you than standing up for it.

I have no illusion that the progressive left will stop at rec sports.

But I have coached a rec team with a trans kid. Unless the particular child poses an issue with safety or fair play, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

[Emma]

The IOC, NCAA and I have all balanced out society's needs with transgender needs, unlike you. We have decided that a swim meet in a pool is not important compared to the need to overcome the shitty way you and your friends have treated transgender women. Again, "equality" is not a la carte. I do like how you relabel "constant abuse of transgender women" as "giving in to transgender desires". That's really high level transphobia.

Enjoy rec soccer. I'd recommend swimming as an alternative, but it looks like the trans women beat you there also.

Constant abuse? one instant in which I do think they need to compromise and work through is constant abuse to you?

You underestimate the transgender population if you think asking them to work with others is considered abusing them.

 

[met61]

No one was cut from the Penn swim team to make room for Lia Thomas. Regardless, if you're the worst swimmer on Penn's swim team of more than 40, it is time to move on in life.

If you want your kids to have fun in sports, rec puts a real premium on that, so feel free to steer your kid in that direction. I know it's getting hard to for biological women to find college soccer teams now that trans women have taken over the game and all, so it's beginning to sound like that's the best place for snowflakes anyway.

...15 women qualify for the College Women's Swimming National Finals. By allowing a man to complete, Will Thomas prevented the #16 woman to compete in something she has worked and trained her whole life for...and since she is a senior, this was her last chance.

...your words and lies are clearly expected and pathetic towards women...but it is the lies and degrading of women by the NCAA that I find absolutely disgusting and worthy of public and direct backlash.

 

[GoldenGate]

Constant abuse? one instant in which I do think they need to compromise and work through is constant abuse to you?

You underestimate the transgender population if you think asking them to work with others is considered abusing them.

I love how you substitute "do what I want" for "work with others". Transgender men and women very much work with others, so much so that they've worked with the NCAA for over a decade and the IOC for two. The only ones who refuse to work with others are those like you who want to ban them from women's sports.

Enjoy losing. You losing on transgender participation in women's sports, and your daughter losing to all those scary transgender opponents. So scary.

 

[met61]

I have no illusion that the progressive left will stop at rec sports.

But I have coached a rec team with a trans kid. Unless the particular child poses an issue with safety or fair play, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

...I have also coached rec sports and there was always a limit to the amount of players that could be accommodated on teams and the league as a whole...was this also the case with your coaching experience?

Additionally, I've had my own kid miss a rec sports season because slots filled up before the sign up deadline.

 

[GoldenGate]

I have no illusion that the progressive left will stop at rec sports.

But I have coached a rec team with a trans kid. Unless the particular child poses an issue with safety or fair play, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I'm sorry you're going to hell because you don't hate transgender people enough. Carry on trying to have "equality" a la carte so you can keep transgender women away from what is important to you, while ignoring what your non lefty friends like met61 are doing to finish the job outside the pool or pitch. Do you think your friends will stop after refusing to sell them products and services? Maybe spitting on them too? Prevent them from getting married to someone of the same biological gender? Or go all the way and beat them to death?

 

[Emma]

I love how you substitute "do what I want" for "work with others". Transgender men and women very much work with others, so much so that they've worked with the NCAA for over a decade and the IOC for two. The only ones who refuse to work with others are those like you who want to ban them from women's sports.

Enjoy losing. You losing on transgender participation in women's sports, and your daughter losing to all those scary transgender opponents. So scary.

Thanks for translating my English to your English? I support your rigourous defending of transgender even if I disagree with this one instance. I'm not sure you're helping the cause with your hatred and unwillingness to see things from other people's perspective.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

It's amazing what the human mind can rationalize if the desire is strong enough. Mid-terms are going to be even more interesting if this board is truly representative of our population and there really are that many people who buy into this gaslighting narrative and say it out loud. I can't wait to hear candidates define what a "woman" is. I'm thinking with the right definition, we may find they are over-represented in areas we thought that they were under-represented. We have so much to learn. Hahahaha!

This is and should be a non-issue. Only those conditioned to respond to the stimuli and those actually involved could give a rat’s ass.

 

[what-happened]

You clearly care very much. Why does it bother you so much to refer to a transgender woman as "she"? Language and grammar is not "biology", and many languages don't even use different gender pronouns. Man, it must drive you nuts when people identify their preferred gender pronouns on their email signature lines.

Can you explain again why "science' makes it impossible for a transgender woman to swim in a race against biological women? I'm having a hard time believing that given that we have all seen it actually happen. That, of course, stands in contrast to an all powerful invisible man in the sky who told everyone to kill trans women up until he changed his mind. Can you please explain the "science" behind that while you're at it.

there you go again, zig, zagging and clowning. I don't have an issue with referring to a transgender women as a she - you just want it to be so. The word salad in bold above demonstrates how much of a clown you are. You really do very little for the causes you carry in your brain, unable to effectively navigate the real world.

By the way, science doesnt make it impossible for a transwoman to race against a biological women. The science is clear on how unfair that race will always be. If you fail to make that connection, then you have other issues that need to be addressed. If she was a he post puberty, the advantage is always going to be with the she that was a he. And if you find this offensive, then so be it. Science, like nature, tends to reveal the truth.

 

[GoldenGate]

Thanks for translating my English to your English? I support your rigourous defending of transgender even if I disagree with this one instance. I'm not sure you're helping the cause with your hatred and unwillingness to see things from other people's perspective.

I fully understand your perspective. I have said many times I understand your perspective, but I believe the arguments against trans participation in women's sports is outweighed by the important reasons in support - just like the IOC, just like the NCAA, just like a lot of people. The only ones who are unwilling to see things from the other people's perspective are people like you. Other than watfly, none of the transphobes here will accept that any legitimate reason exists in support of trans participation in women's sports. Watfly had a moment of honest conversation and, go figure, I treated him with dignity and respect. But you and the others refuse to treat trans women with dignity and respect, so you get what you deserve.

If seeing things from other people's perspective is important, then great, explain what are the legitimate reasons why the NCAA and IOC allow trans participation in women's sports. Let's see your ability to understand someone else's perspective. I have no gripe with anyone who believes that those reasons are outweighed by legitimate countervailing reasons, but the problem is you won't even acknowledge the legitimacy of the reasons for allowing trans participation in women's sports. Because you and others won't, you get what you deserve.

Remember, though, God is watching and will punish you if you say anything supportive of a transgender woman. In fact, @dad4 is apparently going to hell for saying they should at least be allowed to play rec sports.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

...history has proven the road to hell is paved with good intentions...and @dad4, I sincerely believe your intentions are good, just somewhat naive and misguided.

Unfortunately you, and too many like you, make two key mistakes...1. believing if you compromise the truth for rec sports, the left will stop there...2. believing the left has good intentions.

...whereas, the truth speaks for itself...and requires nothing more from you than standing up for it.

Seems both ends of the political spectrum want to dictate policy. On the far left we get the “everyone gets a trophy” nonsense and on the far right we get those that don’t fit the mold being beaten and tortured to death.

 

[dad4]

...I have also coached rec sports and there was always a limit to the amount of players that could be accommodated on teams and the league as a whole...was this also the case with your coaching experience?

Additionally, I've had my own kid miss a rec sports season because slots filled up before the sign up deadline.

Our biggest problem was coaches, not fields.

More to the point, having one fewer boy and one more girl would not make any impact at all on overall field space. The boys and the girls all got the same size practice field.

 

[GoldenGate]

there you go again, zig, zagging and clowning. I don't have an issue with referring to a transgender women as a she - you just want it to be so. The word salad in bold above demonstrates how much of a clown you are. You really do very little for the causes you carry in your brain, unable to effectively navigate the real world.

By the way, science doesnt make it impossible for a transwoman to race against a biological women. The science is clear on how unfair that race will always be. If you fail to make that connection, then you have other issues that need to be addressed. If she was a he post puberty, the advantage is always going to be with the she that was a he. And if you find this offensive, then so be it. Science, like nature, tends to reveal the truth.

So now you're admitting the dictionary isn't the sports rulebook? Progress!

I think what you're saying is that college sports is so sacred to you that even a modest biological advantage to a transgender woman doesn't outweigh the effort to overcome systemic discrimination and abuse in life suffered everywhere else? You're saying "equality" should come a la carte and, because swimming in a pool gives transgender women too much of an advantage in life, it outweighs all the disadvantages they have everywhere else? You're saying transgender women have it so great in life that it's unfair to give them even more advantages in a swim race? That's your argument in a nutshell, right? Or do you also believe it is a safety issue because she might use her physical advantages to maim or even kill one of her swim competitors?

 

[GoldenGate]

Seems both ends of the political spectrum want to dictate policy. On the far left we get the “everyone gets a trophy” nonsense and on the far right we get those that don’t fit the mold being beaten and tortured to death.

Don't forget that the far left also occasionally causes property damage when the far right gets away with beating and torturing people to death.

 

[met61]

Our biggest problem was coaches, not fields.

More to the point, having one fewer boy and one more girl would not make any impact at all on overall field space. The boys and the girls all got the same size practice field.

...we both know you did not answer the question I asked...in fact, to steal a brilliant statement used in an above post..."Thanks for translating my English to your English?"

...although I would appreciate you answering the question I asked... I do understand how compromising the truth and enabling lies makes simple questions difficult.

 

[dad4]

...we both know you did not answer the question I asked...in fact, to steal a brilliant statement used in an above post..."Thanks for translating my English to your English?"

...although I would appreciate you answering the question I asked... I do understand how compromising the truth and enabling lies makes simple questions difficult.

You asked whether we had to cut kids due to a lack of field space.

The answer is no. We never had to cut a kid from rec due to lack of fields. As I said, our problem was a lack of coaches, not fields.

What does this have to do with trans athletes? If your rec league doesn't have enough field space, you have exactly the same problem no matter how you classify the one or two trans kids.

 

[what-happened]

So now you're admitting the dictionary isn't the sports rulebook? Progress!

I think what you're saying is that college sports is so sacred to you that even a modest biological advantage to a transgender woman doesn't outweigh the effort to overcome systemic discrimination and abuse in life suffered everywhere else? You're saying "equality" should come a la carte and, because swimming in a pool gives transgender women too much of an advantage in life, it outweighs all the disadvantages they have everywhere else? You're saying transgender women have it so great in life that it's unfair to give them even more advantages in a swim race? That's your argument in a nutshell, right? Or do you also believe it is a safety issue because she might use her physical advantages to maim or even kill one of her swim competitors?

as my kids would say - wait, wut? but to your point, she would use her physical advantage (gained through physiologically developing as a HE) to unfairly win - so yes, you admit that I'm right, even if you use hyperbole to weakly make your point. So if maim and kill mean crushing the field in an individual sport, then yes, you are spot on...so right, so clever, yet very clownish. Thanks for making the point about the unfair advantage - which is the argument - not that people are transphobic...but you are clearly girl/women phobic, obvious by your repeated inclusion of daugthers within your insults.

I'll stand by and wait for your limp insults. I do admire your ability to maintain a uniformly incoherent stream of thought.

 

[Emma]

I fully understand your perspective. I have said many times I understand your perspective, but I believe the arguments against trans participation in women's sports is outweighed by the important reasons in support - just like the IOC, just like the NCAA, just like a lot of people. The only ones who are unwilling to see things from the other people's perspective are people like you. Other than watfly, none of the transphobes here will accept that any legitimate reason exists in support of trans participation in women's sports. Watfly had a moment of honest conversation and, go figure, I treated him with dignity and respect. But you and the others refuse to treat trans women with dignity and respect, so you get what you deserve.

If seeing things from other people's perspective is important, then great, explain what are the legitimate reasons why the NCAA and IOC allow trans participation in women's sports. Let's see your ability to understand someone else's perspective. I have no gripe with anyone who believes that those reasons are outweighed by legitimate countervailing reasons, but the problem is you won't even acknowledge the legitimacy of the reasons for allowing trans participation in women's sports. Because you and others won't, you get what you deserve.

Remember, though, God is watching and will punish you if you say anything supportive of a transgender woman. In fact, @dad4 is apparently going to hell for saying they should at least be allowed to play rec sports.

I don't believe transgenders should be excluded from women's sports. At any level, except the highest competitive level, transgenders should be included in women's sports. Transgenders are not excluded from competing at the highest level, they just need to do it with their biological sex. That's a balancing act.

I haven't heard your argument about the important reasons why transgenders need to compete against biological females at the highest level yet. I want to hear it because I can be convinced if I hear a logical reason that outweighs a girls right to compete. I've thrown my reason out there. Biologically, females can NOT compete against top Males physically, that's why we created a separate sports division for females and males. You haven't been throwing out any argument as to why transgenders right to compete at a high level in the wrong biological sex outweighs a women's right to compete with her biological sex.