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Apologize if this has already been shared. It’s worth the read. You can read the Governors full letter here.


GOP Utah governor vetoes transgender athlete bill, citing high suicide rates: ‘I want them to live’

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox became the second Republican governor in the past week to veto a bill that would have barred transgender athletes from competing in girls’ sports, writing an impassioned letter to state GOP leaders on Tuesday explaining his decision.
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Cox cited “fundamental flaws” in the legislation, known as H.B. 11. But chief among the governor’s concerns were the mental health impacts such a bill could have on transgender youths in the state, he wrote.
Cox’s decision to veto the bill highlights divisions within the Republican Party on the efficacy and morality of bills restricting the lives of young trans people. GOP leaders in Utah said they plan to override Cox’s veto, which would require approval from two-thirds of the state’s lawmakers.
Indiana’s GOP governor vetoes bill banning transgender girls from female sports in schools, citing ‘unanswered questions’
In Cox’s letter, which was also posted on Twitter, the governor cited several reasons he was going against H.B. 11. He raised concerns about substantial last-minute changes to the bill’s content; the potential economic and legal backlash; and a “broad misunderstanding” around the participation of transgender youth in sports.
 
BIGD said:
Apologize if this has already been shared. It’s worth the read. You can read the Governors full letter here.


GOP Utah governor vetoes transgender athlete bill, citing high suicide rates: ‘I want them to live’

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox became the second Republican governor in the past week to veto a bill that would have barred transgender athletes from competing in girls’ sports, writing an impassioned letter to state GOP leaders on Tuesday explaining his decision.
Get the full experience.Choose your plan
Cox cited “fundamental flaws” in the legislation, known as H.B. 11. But chief among the governor’s concerns were the mental health impacts such a bill could have on transgender youths in the state, he wrote.
Cox’s decision to veto the bill highlights divisions within the Republican Party on the efficacy and morality of bills restricting the lives of young trans people. GOP leaders in Utah said they plan to override Cox’s veto, which would require approval from two-thirds of the state’s lawmakers.
Indiana’s GOP governor vetoes bill banning transgender girls from female sports in schools, citing ‘unanswered questions’
In Cox’s letter, which was also posted on Twitter, the governor cited several reasons he was going against H.B. 11. He raised concerns about substantial last-minute changes to the bill’s content; the potential economic and legal backlash; and a “broad misunderstanding” around the participation of transgender youth in sports.
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Thanks for the link. Cox's position is well thought out and respectful to both sides. Definitely worth a read.
 
dad4 said:
Thanks for the link. Cox's position is well thought out and respectful to both sides. Definitely worth a read.
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Both sides my ass..."chief among the governor’s concerns were the mental health impacts such a bill could have on transgender youths in the state, he wrote. "

Hey @dad4 what about the mental health impact on ACTUAL girls and women when this male freak walks in a public bathroom?

His mental health impact will be the least of his worries if he walks in on my kid.

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whatithink said:
I have no problem with women and children first. It's "traditional" as it's the future of the tribe.

I do think the premise of



is beyond dated as if to say there is nobody else, hence making any principled women & mothers redundant/useless, especially when you are talking about a societal "issue" where men have no more or less to say than women.

To the whole trans gender thing, oddly enough only this week my son was out helping a neighbor and came home and mention another neighbor, let's say Mike. I said, do you mean Mary, and he replied, no, it's Mike now as he identifies as a he. No big deal to him, didn't make any type of deal with it, it just is what it is. It seems to me, by this thread that it's the parents - us older folk - who seem to have an "issue" with it. The kids aren't bothered either way. We could learn from them.

As for the sports aspect, well the swimmer in Q clearly has a physical advantage because of maturing as a male. That doesn't strike me as particularly fair from a sporting perspective, but I'm ambivalent to it TBH. Its college sports, not life or death stuff. It's also rare. There are far more important things that deserve far more attention.
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I believe your "principled" response would be quite different than my "principled" response when this male freak walks in on you and/or your daughter versus my daughter in a women's bathroom.

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Hüsker Dü said:
Like all “discussions” in here (that some take personally for some reason?) it’s a pointless argument. One can vent or point out some of the reasoning involved, but it’s just an exercise in futility. The realities are so twisted the truth is never quite reached as ideology and ego get in the way. Write your representative don’t act as if something is being settled in here of all places! Lol!
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what are you talking about - is biology not as straightforward as you would like?
 
Hüsker Dü said:
I mostly agree with not allowing men to compete in women’s competitions, but the disgusting way most posters have portrayed the issue demands rebuttal. Let the competition committee’s decide . . . as conservatives use to say (not many real conservatives get a say anymore as they are screamed down by trumpist) “let the market work it out”. If women don’t like the committee’s decision they should boycott. Seems like another manufactured culture war issue where there isn’t much there there. If you can’t get by on policy make stuff up.
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read out loud what you just typed. Please point out the disgusting way this has been portrayed.
 
Emma said:
I don't agree with you comparing these things because they have nothing in common. Don't assume because you know what that does.

While sports is definitely not as serious as school shootings and insurrections, it is very meaningful to a lot of girls who dedicate a lot of time to it. I'm fully in support of everyone's right to do as they wish until it infringes on others ability to do what they wish too. When there are conflicts, we have to work them out to see how best to deal with the conflict.

You're not listening and minimizing other people's concerns. If sports is really insignificant, ask transgenders not to participate in them. After all, they're insignificant so it shouldn't matter to transgenders too. If you're unwilling to do that than don't ask that of genetic females. Competitive sports is significant because people spend a lot of time and passion towards it.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I do know there are legitimate concerns to work through. Transphobia is not the issue. You can't throw out name calling "phobia" words at every turn to shut down any conversation.

No one wants to stop transgenders from enjoying their lives or living their best lives but conflicts exist and need to be resolved.

If transgenders want to play a sport to be with females, then why not just stick to rec sports where athletes are not dedicating significant amount of hours to compete? If they want to be in a competitive environment, it should align with the science chromosomes because female sports were created separately for genetic females due to scientific differences.
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The "conflicts" have been resolved in favor of allowing transgender participation in women's sports. This was resolved 20 years ago with the IOC and more than a decade ago with the NCAA.

Yes, I can use the word transphobic when it is appropriate, and it is appropriate when someone cannot even accept the legitimacy of the arguments in support of transgender participation in women's sports. It is also transphobic when people make fake and irrational arguments to oppose transgender participation, such as "it's dangerous" when we're talking about someone swimming in a pool and no one in NCAA history has ever been injured in over a decade because a transgender woman participated in college sports or how the 19th century definition of "woman" is a sports rulebook, or how a transgender woman in the restroom means the end of the world. The problem here has nothing to do with me being "unwilling" to understand and accept the arguments against transgender participation in women's sports. I understand them quite well. The problem is that people like you and your more obviously transphobic friends cannot understand and accept the arguments against transgender participation in women's sports. I've weighed the pros and cons and picked one side, but you and your friends aren't willing to weigh anything. You can't even muster the willingness to accept that there are legitimate arguments on the other side of the debate. Instead, you're making ridiculous claims that "no one wants to stop transgenders from enjoying their lives or living their best lives", which is utter rubbish and you know it. You and your friends obviously want them out of sports. You want them out of the women's restroom. You want them out of being able to get married if they're in love with someone of the same biological gender, which also means you want them out of the favorable tax and intestate succession laws you enjoy. You want them out of any business that doesn't want to sell services or products to them. You want to be able to keep mocking them like micpapa because you think it's funny. It isn't funny for the reasons the Utah governor tried to veto the law.
 
Just here to remind everyone that leftists attempted an 8-MONTH long, NATIONWIDE insurrection in 2020.

Don't let anyone distract you from that. They will try anything and everything. They will immediately straw man to Jan/6. Ignore it. Keep pressing. Leftists are dictionary defined terrorists.

Transgender nonsense, inflation, Ukraine, gas prices, climate change, stock market.....all pointless when we have literal domestic terrorists in this country already nationwide; these leftists are ready for a call to action at a moments notice by the democrat establishment media and corporate machine. Don't forget it.
 
Emma said:
If transgenders want to play a sport to be with females, then why not just stick to rec sports where athletes are not dedicating significant amount of hours to compete? If they want to be in a competitive environment, it should align with the science chromosomes because female sports were created separately for genetic females due to scientific differences.
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It sounds to me like your daughter is the one who should stick to rec sports. I can't imagine she has dedicated nearly as much time to competing as Lia Thomas has her entire life. In fact, I doubt she is even close to the top 450 or so soccer players in college like Thomas was on the men's side before he started to transition.
 
Emma said:
While sports is definitely not as serious as school shootings and insurrections, it is very meaningful to a lot of girls who dedicate a lot of time to it. I'm fully in support of everyone's right to do as they wish until it infringes on others ability to do what they wish too. When there are conflicts, we have to work them out to see how best to deal with the conflict.
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Your trying to kick transgender women out of women's sports infringes on their ability to do what they wish too. The NCAA and IOC first addressed that "conflict" over a decade ago.
 
GoldenGate said:
The "conflicts" have been resolved in favor of allowing transgender participation in women's sports. This was resolved 20 years ago with the IOC and more than a decade ago with the NCAA.

Yes, I can use the word transphobic when it is appropriate, and it is appropriate when someone cannot even accept the legitimacy of the arguments in support of transgender participation in women's sports. It is also transphobic when people make fake and irrational arguments to oppose transgender participation, such as "it's dangerous" when we're talking about someone swimming in a pool and no one in NCAA history has ever been injured in over a decade because a transgender woman participated in college sports or how the 19th century definition of "woman" is a sports rulebook, or how a transgender woman in the restroom means the end of the world. The problem here has nothing to do with me being "unwilling" to understand and accept the arguments against transgender participation in women's sports. I understand them quite well. The problem is that people like you and your more obviously transphobic friends cannot understand and accept the arguments against transgender participation in women's sports. I've weighed the pros and cons and picked one side, but you and your friends aren't willing to weigh anything. You can't even muster the willingness to accept that there are legitimate arguments on the other side of the debate. Instead, you're making ridiculous claims that "no one wants to stop transgenders from enjoying their lives or living their best lives", which is utter rubbish and you know it. You and your friends obviously want them out of sports. You want them out of the women's restroom. You want them out of being able to get married if they're in love with someone of the same biological gender, which also means you want them out of the favorable tax and intestate succession laws you enjoy. You want them out of any business that doesn't want to sell services or products to them. You want to be able to keep mocking them like micpapa because you think it's funny. It isn't funny for the reasons the Utah governor tried to veto the law.
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so many words, so little meaning --- impressive. It hasn't been resolved, it's been whitewashed. It's as if biology is no longer a discipline. Do you know any biologist? You are absurd beyond words but I admire you holding that line. There is no rule that only allows WOMEN on a WOMEN's team? Hilarious and absurd. Do you go to the vet or to your family doctor? Your common sense appears to be diminishing at an astonishing rate.
 
GoldenGate said:
It sounds to me like your daughter is the one who should stick to rec sports. I can't imagine she has dedicated nearly as much time to competing as Lia Thomas has her entire life. In fact, I doubt she is even close to the top 450 or so soccer players in college like Thomas was on the men's side before he started to transition.
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You certainly have a penchant for going after poster's daughters -why? By the way, biologist would say that Lia Thomas spent most of his life working hard and competing.
 
what-happened said:
so many words, so little meaning --- impressive. It hasn't been resolved, it's been whitewashed. It's as if biology is no longer a discipline. Do you know any biologist? You are absurd beyond words but I admire you holding that line. There is no rule that only allows WOMEN on a WOMEN's team? Hilarious and absurd. Do you go to the vet or to your family doctor? Your common sense appears to be diminishing at an astonishing rate.
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So please show me the rule that says a transgender woman cannot play women's collegiate sports? Because I'm only seeing rules that say the opposite. You don't get to hide behind a 19th century dictionary.

Your lack of common sense is astonishing no matter how much you try to whitewash your transphobia.
 
what-happened said:
You certainly have a penchant for going after poster's daughters -why? By the way, biologist would say that Lia Thomas spent most of his life working hard and competing.
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In the end, if you can't even refer to a transgender woman as "she", there is nothing you can say that anyone who is serious about this issue, let alone involved in making these decisions, has any respect for. You come into the conversation telling everyone that you're a transphobe who has no interest in treating transgender women with dignity and respect, so you get none either.
 
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