Vaccine

Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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has anyone asked the persons who placed behind her how they feel? They know her, we do not
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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Wow you are really invested in this! You feel she did that to win medals?
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
has anyone asked the persons who placed behind her how they feel? They know her, we do not
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One has publicly said it wasn't fair and 16 of her teammates said she shouldn't be allowed to compete as a woman.

I'm sympathetic to the situation as my son's best friend is MTF transgendered kid and I wouldn't wish the transition process on anyone. However, this is just a "bridge too far" for me and defies common sense for the reasons Kicker2.0 mentioned in terms of timing. The testosterone levels may change but the biology doesn't change much in 1-2 years.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
I have refrained from commenting, and some think I am a troll. That's fine. 99% of transgender kids are not very athletic. Having a transgender athlete be successful is a big step forward for awareness and normalization. It doesn't look like this swimmer had a big difference in sucess when male or female. Hormone suppressing drugs are very powerful, nauseating and exhausting and impact coordination and just ability to function so I understand the uproar if you don't know these things, but if you knew the backstory of these kids I think all of you as parent would just be really happy for this athlete. I have no personal knowledge about this swimmer but I am pretty sure that would be her story.
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Deja vu.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
has anyone asked the persons who placed behind her how they feel? They know her, we do not
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...although important, what they feel is not the issue. We all understand what Truth is...the main issue is where we stand on the Truth.

Do you believe men can be women...or women men? Should men compete in women's sports?
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
@met61 I misspoke. The athlete I was thinking of was biologically female transitioning to non-binary.
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...ok then, not sure how a woman playing in NWSL fits into your below post...so, because of modern day examples of people accepting lies, then what? Forgive me, I may have missed something... maybe, explain how men playing in men's sports and women playing in women's sports "begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why." You see, the Truth is clear and requires no investigation...it could be one's personal relationship with the Truth that begs the bigger internal investigation. Just a thought.

Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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met61 said:
The Truth is harmed...thus, encouraging more lies.

In your (and your fellow fence sitters) compromise of the Truth scenario...who determines and enforces skill levels and "no real soccer skills"? When player capacity numbers are reached, what happens to the next girl(s) who want to try girls soccer?

Mr. Thomas was ranked 400th+ amongst his collegiate male swimmer peers...so what ranking would you consider low skill? And again, who gets to establish what low skill is?

Accommodating a lie may very well be kind...but kind is an emotion...and emotions frequently act as blinders to facts and the Truth.

You either stand for the Truth or you do not...no fences to sit on with this one.
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Some great battle of Truth versus Lie in girls rec soccer?

No. This is the kind of ordinary decision parents and coaches make all the time. When can you be kind, and when do you have to hold a harder line.

So, who decides if the MTF athlete is too good for a rec program? coaches and division coordinator, same as always. You keep an eye on her, and nudge her into the boys side if her level of play is more similar to the boys division. Good programs already do this to nudge top rec players into comp.

There is no collegiate ranking I would consider low skill. All NCAA teams are high skill, and ought to follow original birth certificate + DNA. Lia Thomas should have to compete against the boys.
 
dad4 said:
Some great battle of Truth versus Lie in girls rec soccer?

No. This is the kind of ordinary decision parents and coaches make all the time. When can you be kind, and when do you have to hold a harder line.

So, who decides if the MTF athlete is too good for a rec program? coaches and division coordinator, same as always. You keep an eye on her, and nudge her into the boys side if her level of play is more similar to the boys division. Good programs already do this to nudge top rec players into comp.

There is no collegiate ranking I would consider low skill. All NCAA teams are high skill, and ought to follow original birth certificate + DNA. Lia Thomas should have to compete against the boys.
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...my use of girls rec soccer was going with your analogy in playing loose with the Truth.

Actually, the kind of ordinary decisions parents and coaches make all the time are grounded in boys on boys teams and girls on girls teams. I also believe in being kind...but, being kind is not asking ordinary parents, coaches, and kids to play along with a lie.

The truth is clear and does not require all these other situations and wranglings you put forth and bend to.

In the end, with all due respect, the greatest battle of Truth versus lie is when you, and those like you, use her when referring to a boy.
 
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