Vaccine

Hüsker Dü said:
I just see scared people reacting to things they seem to see through the lens they have been given. Not sure if many in here have said anything about trans rights only that they are cheating somehow? I pretty much agree with your opening paragraph, but who is to say that isn’t what has happened already? Do we know this all just based on what the potential athletes say or has there been testing of some kind? Just not a fan of fear based on biases.
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All of the examples so far have been athletes who are born male, have XY chromosomes, and transition at some point later in life.

If they were using original birth certificate + DNA, they’d all be competing in a mens or boys division.
 
I have refrained from commenting, and some think I am a troll. That's fine. 99% of transgender kids are not very athletic. Having a transgender athlete be successful is a big step forward for awareness and normalization. It doesn't look like this swimmer had a big difference in sucess when male or female. Hormone suppressing drugs are very powerful, nauseating and exhausting and impact coordination and just ability to function so I understand the uproar if you don't know these things, but if you knew the backstory of these kids I think all of you as parent would just be really happy for this athlete. I have no personal knowledge about this swimmer but I am pretty sure that would be her story.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
I have refrained from commenting, and some think I am a troll. That's fine. 99% of transgender kids are not very athletic. Having a transgender athlete be successful is a big step forward for awareness and normalization. It doesn't look like this swimmer had a big difference in sucess when male or female. Hormone suppressing drugs are very powerful, nauseating and exhausting and impact coordination and just ability to function so I understand the uproar if you don't know these things, but if you knew the backstory of these kids I think all of you as parent would just be really happy for this athlete. I have no personal knowledge about this swimmer but I am pretty sure that would be her story.
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Understandable why you have refrained from commenting. Recommend return to refraining.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
I have refrained from commenting, and some think I am a troll. That's fine. 99% of transgender kids are not very athletic. Having a transgender athlete be successful is a big step forward for awareness and normalization. It doesn't look like this swimmer had a big difference in sucess when male or female. Hormone suppressing drugs are very powerful, nauseating and exhausting and impact coordination and just ability to function so I understand the uproar if you don't know these things, but if you knew the backstory of these kids I think all of you as parent would just be really happy for this athlete. I have no personal knowledge about this swimmer but I am pretty sure that would be her story.
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"I have no personal knowledge ... but I am pretty sure" could be the confession of many posters in this forum.
 
watfly said:
I'm going to continue to indulge you today just for fun. I'm pretty sure it's biology that sets the rules. The level of testosterone doesn't determine whether you're male or female. Your chromosomes determine that. This isn't about transgender rights, its about women's rights and exploiting and unfair advantage. Nor is it about discrimination because the individual is not prevented from competing, they just have to compete in the appropriate group. Not unlike why we have age or ability levels for many sports. You can play up but not play down because it creates an advantage in most cases.

When you transition post puberty you can't reverse that. You can't reverse you height, your arm length etc. I'm actually OK with prepuberty transitions competing in their identified gender, but not post puberty. You think you're carrying water for transgenders when in fact there is not universal support among transgenders and their families for MTF athletes competing against women.

Your lack of self awareness continues to infect your posts. You claim its just a race what's the big deal. That same attitude should apply to the trans swimmer. It must be a big deal if she is willing to take an unfair advantage to when a silly race. Do I think they transitioned to win NCAA swim races? No. Do I think they is exploiting that advantage for their benefit? 100%.
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science, biology - fake news. Dogma - now you are talking his love language..
 
dad4 said:
Suppose a low skill trans kid wants to try rec soccer. Born male, lives as female, no real soccer skills.

Who is harmed if they join a girls rec team?

The kind thing to do is to accommodate their request.
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The Truth is harmed...thus, encouraging more lies.

In your (and your fellow fence sitters) compromise of the Truth scenario...who determines and enforces skill levels and "no real soccer skills"? When player capacity numbers are reached, what happens to the next girl(s) who want to try girls soccer?

Mr. Thomas was ranked 400th+ amongst his collegiate male swimmer peers...so what ranking would you consider low skill? And again, who gets to establish what low skill is?

Accommodating a lie may very well be kind...but kind is an emotion...and emotions frequently act as blinders to facts and the Truth.

You either stand for the Truth or you do not...no fences to sit on with this one.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
I have refrained from commenting, and some think I am a troll. That's fine. 99% of transgender kids are not very athletic. Having a transgender athlete be successful is a big step forward for awareness and normalization. It doesn't look like this swimmer had a big difference in sucess when male or female. Hormone suppressing drugs are very powerful, nauseating and exhausting and impact coordination and just ability to function so I understand the uproar if you don't know these things, but if you knew the backstory of these kids I think all of you as parent would just be really happy for this athlete. I have no personal knowledge about this swimmer but I am pretty sure that would be her story.
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I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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...are they examples in modern day of men competing against women?
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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has anyone asked the persons who placed behind her how they feel? They know her, we do not
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
I agree with you and there are examples in modern day of trans athletes competing professionally with Women. However, this swimmer was a Male collegiate athlete thru his sophomore year then transitioned into her Junior year. So one year competing against Men and not finishing on a podium to the next year competing against Women and winning Medals.

If anything it begs a bigger investigation into who should be able to compete and why.
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Wow you are really invested in this! You feel she did that to win medals?
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
has anyone asked the persons who placed behind her how they feel? They know her, we do not
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One has publicly said it wasn't fair and 16 of her teammates said she shouldn't be allowed to compete as a woman.

I'm sympathetic to the situation as my son's best friend is MTF transgendered kid and I wouldn't wish the transition process on anyone. However, this is just a "bridge too far" for me and defies common sense for the reasons Kicker2.0 mentioned in terms of timing. The testosterone levels may change but the biology doesn't change much in 1-2 years.
 
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