Vaccine

whatithink said:
Vaccine passports are a choice. You are free to get one or not. Why would anyone be screaming about freedom of choice? Isn't freedom the American way? I do understand people screaming when someone takes away your freedom to choose. That's very un-American, you know, taking away our freedoms and trying to mandate what we can and cannot do with our bodies, especially when it only impact some Americans, but not all - that's certainly discrimination.
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Not really following what you are trying to say. Twisting politics in with medicine is silly and a slippery slope. You are more than welcome to have the choice/life discussion with someone else.

Vaccine passports are simply not worth the effort. what do they really do?

  1. slightly reduce the risk to healthy vaccinated individuals who've been vaccinated?
  2. VERY slightly reduce the risk to kids, who are protected by youth
  3. Slightly reduce the risk of vulnerable people, who are few.
Maybe we will use vaccine passports to try and get people to get the vaccine. That will likely expend a good amount of political captial to achieve what end?

What's even the point when you can still: get sick, pass on the virus, die from breakthrough infections. Makes zero sense. Wait until people don't get their boosters. What then. It's much easier to practice medicine.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Should we start a GoFundMe to get a therapist for GG?
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The bar does provide some free intervention services. Has he burned through those?

dad4 said:
I read Osterholm’s piece.

It reads like he is overcorrecting after his hurricane comments.

His view on masks effectiveness (25%) is reasonable. I do disagree with the lens he puts on it. “How long can I stay in this room” is the wrong question. It is not actually true that 14 minutes is safe and 16 minutes is not safe. So, “adds 5 minutes to a 15 minute window” just compares a misleading number against itself.

I don’t dismiss distance in the Bangladesh study. You are saying the masked clusters might have also kept their distance better. Could be true, but it doesn’t change the result. Masks still work, you are just arguing about how they work.

It is possible that surgical masks were effective because they made everyone think about doctors. Or maybe people in Bangladesh find masks unattractive, and therefore stay further away. It doesn’t matter. You are just arguing the mechanism. The effect is still that surgical masks reduced transmission.
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IIRC in the Bangladesh study the primary distancing effects were in the older, not the young, for which even with surgicals there wasn't a statistical difference for younger people. Even if you accept "maybe people in Bangladesh" find masks unattractive that would only mean they'd work in Bangladesh and places were similar cultures....not that "the effect is still that surgical masks reduced transmission". Like Hound said, you complain about these things, but then when you do em yourself it's perfectly acceptable. A better, more scientific approach is not to say anything (except perhaps a definitive RCS) proves anything, but rather that it is "interesting" and see where else it leads us.

Oster is basically saying the same thing I've been saying since spring of last year. Masks on a micro level are probably effective on a short term basis. If you have students with ill fitting cloth masks though crowded in a room with only adequate ventilation for 6-9 hours, they ain't gonna doing anything. Same with the passenger sitting on a bus or an airplane who is sick next to you. Same with the coworker in the meat packing plant or sharing the cubicle next to yours.
 
what-happened said:
Not really following what you are trying to say. Twisting politics in with medicine is silly and a slippery slope. You are more than welcome to have the choice/life discussion with someone else.

Vaccine passports are simply not worth the effort. what do they really do?

  1. slightly reduce the risk to healthy vaccinated individuals who've been vaccinated?
  2. VERY slightly reduce the risk to kids, who are protected by youth
  3. Slightly reduce the risk of vulnerable people, who are few.
Maybe we will use vaccine passports to try and get people to get the vaccine. That will likely expend a good amount of political captial to achieve what end?

What's even the point when you can still: get sick, pass on the virus, die from breakthrough infections. Makes zero sense. Wait until people don't get their boosters. What then. It's much easier to practice medicine.
Click to expand...
The point of the vaccine passports is to provide an easy way of showing it, where its required. My initial reply was with respects to your "scary" comment. The EU example I gave has nothing to do with medicine, its about providing a consistent reporting platform across jurisdictions. They allow ease of travel to countries that require validation of status wrt COVID. Its not about being vaccinated, i.e. see the 3 options. You're bent out of shape about imaginary things that don't exist.

As for the choice / politics angle - mea culpa. I do find it hypocritical though with the "freedom of choice (my body) for me for this, but not for you for that", argument.
 
Well on one of the vaxxes they are now recommending they dont be administered to young people.

This is precisely why you shouldn't mandate a drug without having years of study on it.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario now recommending Pfizer over Moderna vaccine for young adults

Should residents wish to receive Moderna as their second shot and prefer to do so, the province says it can be authorized with informed consent.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

Sweden is worried about it as well.

www.yahoo.com

Sweden halts use of Moderna's COVID vaccine in under 30s

National health agency says "very minor" risk of certain side effects appears linked to 2nd dose of the vaccine, and was more prevalent among young men and boys.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Strange how ID mandates fall between ideological lines. The right wants voter ID for registered voters. Registered, i.e. already on the books as an American citizen with the right to vote . . . but where do those on the right fall on gun registration? Now it’s Covid ID’s? So it’s ok for people to own guns with no paper trail or walk around like a feral cat with who knows what kind of diseases, but Americans need to prove they are Americans over and over?
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Apples and Oranges.
 
whatithink said:
The point of the vaccine passports is to provide an easy way of showing it, where its required. My initial reply was with respects to your "scary" comment. The EU example I gave has nothing to do with medicine, its about providing a consistent reporting platform across jurisdictions. They allow ease of travel to countries that require validation of status wrt COVID. Its not about being vaccinated, i.e. see the 3 options. You're bent out of shape about imaginary things that don't exist.

As for the choice / politics angle - mea culpa. I do find it hypocritical though with the "freedom of choice (my body) for me for this, but not for you for that", argument.
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We'll agree to have a difference of opinion. I don't think I'm bent out of shape because of my opinion. A vaccine passport requirement in this country will discriminate against certain populations. That's scary to me but maybe not to you. Depends on your line of work.

There is hypocrisy on both sides of the choice/life movement. Plenty of nuance, privilegde, entitlement, narcism, and tragedy involved.
 
Desert Hound said:
Well on one of the vaxxes they are now recommending they dont be administered to young people.

This is precisely why you shouldn't mandate a drug without having years of study on it.

toronto.citynews.ca

Ontario now recommending Pfizer over Moderna vaccine for young adults

Should residents wish to receive Moderna as their second shot and prefer to do so, the province says it can be authorized with informed consent.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

Sweden is worried about it as well.

www.yahoo.com

Sweden halts use of Moderna's COVID vaccine in under 30s

National health agency says "very minor" risk of certain side effects appears linked to 2nd dose of the vaccine, and was more prevalent among young men and boys.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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THIS
 
Grace T. said:
The bar does provide some free intervention services. Has he burned through those?



IIRC in the Bangladesh study the primary distancing effects were in the older, not the young, for which even with surgicals there wasn't a statistical difference for younger people. Even if you accept "maybe people in Bangladesh" find masks unattractive that would only mean they'd work in Bangladesh and places were similar cultures....not that "the effect is still that surgical masks reduced transmission". Like Hound said, you complain about these things, but then when you do em yourself it's perfectly acceptable. A better, more scientific approach is not to say anything (except perhaps a definitive RCS) proves anything, but rather that it is "interesting" and see where else it leads us.

Oster is basically saying the same thing I've been saying since spring of last year. Masks on a micro level are probably effective on a short term basis. If you have students with ill fitting cloth masks though crowded in a room with only adequate ventilation for 6-9 hours, they ain't gonna doing anything. Same with the passenger sitting on a bus or an airplane who is sick next to you. Same with the coworker in the meat packing plant or sharing the cubicle next to yours.
Click to expand...

Are bar resources available to someone like you who apparently went to law school but never actually practiced law?
 
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