Vaccine

kickingandscreaming said:
Hahaha! I feel like we've cycled through this at least once before. The bulk of the "we" on this board got the vaccine and wear masks when required. If you are going to be a preacher, you better get your message out to the unwashed masses that need it.


Again, you miss the point. It's not, "our leaders don't follow the rules, so why should I", it's "the behavior of the leaders of a culture will represent the behavior of the culture".

There is one thing that demonstrably "worked" here - the vaccine. Let's take a walk down memory lane at a headline that team fear held close not so long ago.

www.cbsnews.com

CDC director says face masks may offer more protection against COVID than a vaccine. Here's what other experts say.

Health experts point out that we don't yet know how effective a vaccine will be – but we do know masks help stop the spread.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Oops. The vaccine not only worked well in a "lab" setting, it actually worked in practice.
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The thread is different from this site. The density of anti-vax and anti-mask people is just higher here.

If you remember, that was the main reason for the creation of the covid off topic area. Someone would ask whose club could find field space, and it would turn into a 20 page diatribe full of reposted garbage from Breitbart.
 
what-happened said:
Your utopia does not exist and it was/is inevitable. Humans are funny creatures. They are going to believe what they want to believe. Parties, restaurants and gambling trips did not kill over half of a million people. It's silly to even say it. Sounds like a news bite. If these types of things were as pivotal in death contribution as you say, we would be in the millions by now. Did selfish actions by humans kill other humans? Sure, we are humans and we directly and indirectly kill each other every day. Your big hand little map approach to life isn't really tenable.

Here is what also has killed 100s of thousands of people: Shitty messenging by our government, shitty public health care policy execution(remember those long term facilities?), shitty and slanted media coverage. Imagine a world where a vaccine would have just been a vaccine and not a polititcal entity all to itself. It's pathetic and shameful
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What do you think enabled the virus to spread? People gathering indoors with other people.
 
dad4 said:
The thread is different from this site. The density of anti-vax and anti-mask people is just higher here.

If you remember, that was the main reason for the creation of the covid off topic area. Someone would ask whose club could find field space, and it would turn into a 20 page diatribe full of reposted garbage from Breitbart.
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Speaking of garbage.
 
dad4 said:
What do you think enabled the virus to spread? People gathering indoors with other people.
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You are completly missing the point of our attempt at a discussion. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was A cause. You are angry at those people and think it's the primary cause. I'm here to tell you that it's not the only cause. The more dangerous aspect of this event has been the inadaquate response by our national and local health care system. I know you can't see that and it's ok. Your fences are high, you acreage is small and your experience outside of thoses fences are minimal. You are coming to a conclusion with a bias. Common actually.
 
dad4 said:
What do you think enabled the virus to spread? People gathering indoors with other people.
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A result of piss poor policy making……ie Closing Parks and Beaches.

It’s funny you blame the masses for not following policy, but don’t blame the policy makers for making bad policy the masses (including the policy makers themselves….see Pelosi, Newsome, etc) don’t care to follow.
 
what-happened said:
You are completly missing the point of our attempt at a discussion. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was A cause. You are angry at those people and think it's the primary cause. I'm here to tell you that it's not the only cause. The more dangerous aspect of this event has been the inadaquate response by our national and local health care system. I know you can't see that and it's ok. Your fences are high, you acreage is small and your experience outside of thoses fences are minimal. You are coming to a conclusion with a bias. Common actually.
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Its match day, but, quickly, there is much to unpackage with respect to laying blame at the foot of the public health response. Part of the unpackaging, from my perspective, would involve public health messaging vs a counteracting infodemic. For example, just yesterday, rehashed data where some Twitter doctor says "Hey vaxx not working" but just a 5 min look at the underlying numbers in a table that most will never both to look at shows vaxx with a 2.5X protective effect over unvaxxed. Another part would involve public heath measures being but forth as some form of tyranny akin to rounding people up into gas chambers. And so forth. In the end it would distill towards having a government that is effective as our fragmentation allows us to have. And partisan arguments ensue as to which side is to blame. whatever. But from a strict epidemiological standpoint our inability to act rapidly and collectively cost lives early on and continues to do so now. For a bIt while longer but this is mostly done at this point. Our division was a form of weakness the virus could exploit. But it is also a form of weakness that can be exploited by other actors, and, as I see it, that's just getting started. So ultimately, in this country with so many advantages, it's on us. Was the human costs of the pandemic worth pursuing our little excercise in social disfunction? I'd say the answer appears to be yes.
 
what-happened said:
You are completly missing the point of our attempt at a discussion. I'm not disagreeing with you that it was A cause. You are angry at those people and think it's the primary cause. I'm here to tell you that it's not the only cause. The more dangerous aspect of this event has been the inadaquate response by our national and local health care system. I know you can't see that and it's ok. Your fences are high, you acreage is small and your experience outside of thoses fences are minimal. You are coming to a conclusion with a bias. Common actually.
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The local and national health care system instituted measures so strict that many argue they are unconstitutional, funded the development of multiple vaccines and made them available for free to anyone who would take them, and waged a public information struggle with disinformation sourced by idiots and opportunists -- what more do you think they should have done?
 
what-happened said:
That's all you need or that's all you can? You do know that reality is constructed by your brain. Your brain unconsciously bends your perceptions to meet your desires and expecations. You need a bit of yoga in your life.
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He needs some heart warmer's bro to open the heart chakra. Dude is ice cold and hard hearted and needs some plants from nature to wake his ass up and open the right side of his dead brain.
 
espola said:
The local and national health care system instituted measures so strict that many argue they are unconstitutional, funded the development of multiple vaccines and made them available for free to anyone who would take them, and waged a public information struggle with disinformation sourced by idiots and opportunists -- what more do you think they should have done?
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Not this:

J&J pause.jpg
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
Its match day, but, quickly, there is much to unpackage with respect to laying blame at the foot of the public health response. Part of the unpackaging, from my perspective, would involve public health messaging vs a counteracting infodemic. For example, just yesterday, rehashed data where some Twitter doctor says "Hey vaxx not working" but just a 5 min look at the underlying numbers in a table that most will never both to look at shows vaxx with a 2.5X protective effect over unvaxxed. Another part would involve public heath measures being but forth as some form of tyranny akin to rounding people up into gas chambers. And so forth. In the end it would distill towards having a government that is effective as our fragmentation allows us to have. And partisan arguments ensue as to which side is to blame. whatever. But from a strict epidemiological standpoint our inability to act rapidly and collectively cost lives early on and continues to do so now. For a bIt while longer but this is mostly done at this point. Our division was a form of weakness the virus could exploit. But it is also a form of weakness that can be exploited by other actors, and, as I see it, that's just getting started. So ultimately, in this country with so many advantages, it's on us. Was the human costs of the pandemic worth pursuing our little excercise in social disfunction? I'd say the answer appears to be yes.
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Shocking.
 
Christian Britschgi reports on the CDC’s, and state and local governments’, unlawful eviction moratoria. A slice:

These eviction moratoriums were dropped into place with virtually no public discussion of the limits of bureaucratic power, the rights of private property holders, the unintended consequences, or any other ramifications of such moves. Governments simply asserted that they had these powers and then used them.

The moratoriums—like so many other extreme COVID-era measures that were supposed to be an emergency stopgap—soon became a seemingly permanent feature of public policy. In the initial months of the pandemic, 43 states adopted some form of eviction restriction, according to the Eviction Lab at Princeton University. By September 2020, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), leaning on a novel, near-limitless interpretation of its own powers, put a national moratorium in place. States could still implement their own eviction bans, but only if they were stricter than what existed at the federal level.
 
espola said:
The local and national health care system instituted measures so strict that many argue they are unconstitutional, funded the development of multiple vaccines and made them available for free to anyone who would take them, and waged a public information struggle with disinformation sourced by idiots and opportunists -- what more do you think they should have done?
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Your statement isn't wrong. But you've picked a side. Local health professionals, from the aspect of policy implementation, have a responsibility to call a wrong when they see it. The northeast is a great example. Government cronyism and partisan posturing led to spread and people dying. No one spoke up. There is an advantage of watching others go first. With that said, people are incapable of not picking a side and making most things political. I will tell you most health care professionals that operate at the ground level would rather be left alone to do their job and not get caught up in politics.

Your statement about public disinformation is short sighted and part of the problem. You operate under the blanket of politics. Don't you remember current senior leadership swearing off of vaccines if the orangeman was behind the development and distribution of them? Do you think vaccine hesitancy would have been less if the parrot heads hadn't made it about politics.

What health policies that predated vaccine mandes were considered unconstitutional?
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
But from a strict epidemiological standpoint our inability to act rapidly and collectively cost lives early on and continues to do so now.
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Given the political division in this country at the time, this is not suprising. I would add our lack of understanding the disease and how to manage it factors in. We fundamentally know how to respond to a contagious respiratory virus. Our challenge was scale. Our early medical miscalculations on how to manage the disease also cost untold lives.

There is plenty to unpack and plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately politics is blinding and politicians have short memories.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Those who have had #COVID and do not want the vaccine are not anti-vaccine. They simply understand science and natural acquired immunity.
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Thank you IZ. Jan 20, 2020 is bday of virus. Plane was full of sick people and I was one of them. Pins and needles in my back. Hot with flash. Fever of 103. Weak and misery I was. I looked at me wife and told her, "I so sorry Queen Bee. You were right and I was dualistically wrong about everything and was too prideful to listen to the Angel." I jumped off meat and started to wake my ass up with the truth and I too had some confessions and repentence to do. We ALL need to confess.
 
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