How many did we save during H1N1?
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Not sure you wanted to thank me there. My view of what constitutes the "self-confirming echo chamber" around here may differ from what you intended.
Again you are neglecting what heavily masked heavily vaxxed Singapore is doing now, and the steps they took before which went way beyond masks and indoor dining
and maybe I wouldn’t have bad mouthed basic health advice if it actually made sense. A partial lists: deliberate lies about masks and herd immunity thresholds, cloth masks bandanas and gaiters, masks are better than vaccines, outdoor masks, outdoor lockdowns, outdoor churches bad but blm protests fine, outdoor dining bans, shutting schools, shutting youth sports, or now the masks to the table on indoor dining. Great track record there dad4. Real winners.
guess you underestimate others
Not one of those complaints does anything to explain why Singapore’s policies worked and ours did not. Most of it falls into the category of “why couldn’t I do the things I wanted to do”.
I don‘t think we can find a solution by asking “how can I do more of what I wanted to do anyway”. We had more than enough people asking that question, and it didn’t seem to work.
We need to ask “what did Singapore do that we did not do?”
Errr…..be a dictatorial state with a readily obedient population where people are canned for leaving gum on the street…everyone said you were a closet authoritarian…you Keep proving them right.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Hope
I don’t think the difference is chewing gum.
You may be on to something with your “obedient” slur. That’s another way of saying Singapore residents followed the rules and we did not.
I’ll certainly agree that was a problem, but I’d bet there were other differences as well.
Desert Hound
DA
As usual you miss it again.
One might say what did Utah get right? They were open, had kids in schools, etc. And have one of the lowest rate of deaths in the US. Far better vs most countries as well.
See how that works?
The problem you have is you WANT the world to be as you lay out your own math. The issue is the real world doesn't work like that.
If only the US which is a continent sized country could only do the same as a country that area wise would fit into LA and has fewer people, then the US would have been fine.
Or if only the US had done what a small island (NZ) did and cut themselves off from the world....
If only we were like some Asian countries (Japan)...while forgetting about the Philippines with very strong protocols...the US could have...
You ideas are all so neat and orderly as you lay out your equations.
The problem is you don't look at the real world and see that it never conforms to your numbers. Culture, geography, demographics, health, politics...etc will all throw your numbers out the window.
You cannot wish the world to be as you like. You need to look around and update your thinking based on actual real world data and what is going on.
But you cannot.
You proudly claim to be the math guy. You proudly claim your area is 90% vaxxed. And yet in that area amongst your friends you are still running around with a mask. You are still not letting your kid doing birthdays (apparently the other vaxxed are doing the same), etc. That tells us again you don't look at real world data. If you did...you would be tossing the mask because everyone around you is vaxxed, your kid would be running around again, etc.
You have not adjusted your view to the real world data in the area around where you live.
If you cannot do so in the area where you live...you certainly cannot do so on a worldwide scale. Which is why your ideas/solutions are so out of touch with reality.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Yes, that is correct. "Breaking rules" is celebrated in the US. We have a plethora of business-related books written with this theme. We ignore federal laws related to the border happily hiring undocumented immigrants to save a little on child care, yard work, and our burritos, and imagine ourselves "woke" in doing so. We allow blocks of our cities to be taken over for weeks at a time. Our politicians don't follow their own rules that take away individual liberty and we put them back in office without blinking an eye. So, yeah, "rules" are viewed differently in the US vs. Singapore.
I found something a little "mathy" for you that highlights the difference between Singapore and the US. It's called the Hofstede Insights. The results indicate what appears to be so obvious to some of us - the cultures of the US and Singapore are very different so policy must be different since culture drives behavior.
Country Comparison - Hofstede Insights
Country comparison Select one or several countries/regions in the menu below to see the values for the 6 dimensions. Go further, discover our cultural survey tool, the Culture Compass™ or join our…
www.hofstede-insights.com
Also, a quick google search turned up this discussing how cultures drive behavior. I have no idea who this is, but it certainly gives those trying to understand cultures and behavior a place to start looking. I think the excerpt below is interesting given the "individualism" score difference between the US and Singapore above.
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The personality trait of extroversion motivates people’s individualistic thought and behavior so there are more differences in the population. If culture fosters a more extroverted personality style, we can expect more need for social interaction. Additionally, Individualistic cultures foster more assertive and outspoken behavior. When the general population encourages these gregarious behaviors, more ideas are exchanged and self-esteem increases.
The opposite of extroversion is not introversion. More correctly, people who are low in extroversion are more likely to be less socially inclined, but that doesn’t mean that they do not enjoy socializing. They may like to socialize in smaller groups or one on one. They can be less assertive. Additionally, a person who is low in extroversion tends to be less energetic and less active.
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Lynda Gantt: How does culture affect behavior?
LYNDA GANTT Culture is a belief about ethics, behaviors and values that are held by a majority of people within a society. The culture of which we are a part
This all comes back to the argument that Grace continues to present - policy must be based on the behaviors of the culture of the population. It's reasonable. Elected officials aren't there because that's what people in Singapore want. Understand this or continue to create bad policy - with wonderful lab results to support it.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Youʻre babbling.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Have you paid your annual membership fees to the Flat Earther Anti-immune System movement?
Bruddah IZ
DA
It's a good thing we replaced the 500k deaths with 6x as many births in 2020 alone. Worldwide there are 385,000 births a day.
We don’t need to wonder what happens if you open up everything and tell people masks are a personal choice.
We can look at Arizona. Your covid policy did all that, and it was a complete train wreck.
Maybe, if you all were Mormon, it would have been like Utah. But you aren’t, and it wasn’t.
Speaking of the vaccine (s) now comes the push for boosters.
What is surprising to me is that the current Pfizer booster or 3rd shot is the same thing as their original two shots, same formula so how does that help vs the delta or variants?
www.cnn.com
What is surprising to me is that the current Pfizer booster or 3rd shot is the same thing as their original two shots, same formula so how does that help vs the delta or variants?
Should you get a Covid-19 booster now? An expert weighs in | CNN
The US Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued guidance that some adults can receive a third Covid-19 booster of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.
www.cnn.com
Yah…poor Florida. What will they ever do?
Desert Hound
DA
We actually had mask mandates. And compliance was high.
The virus is going to do what it does.
I didn't realize that being Mormon conferred special immunity. Is that your hot take. They were open, going to schools, not strict on masks, had crowds at games and had better outcomes vs CA. And you think the difference is it was because they were Mormon?
You are detached from reality.
You are the math guy. Explain why Utah did SOO much better vs CA despite having policies dramatically different vs CA? Mormon is your answer?
I note that you never touch the fact on why you cannot explain why other states will similar cases to CA had higher, the same and lower deaths per million. You keep refusing to look and try to explain that. It is because you are religious in your belief about covid and this goes against your belief system.
CA and NM have about the same cases per million. NM has a lot more deaths per million. NM has had policies very similar to CA. As a matter of fact when I was there this summer in both states, CA was more open.
You dont touch that do you?
CA and CO have about the same cases per million. CO has a lot fewer deaths per million. Similar policies to CA. Why do they have so much fewer deaths vs CA?
You don't touch that do you?
The reason you don't is because it defies your preferred lock everything down and it all works scenario.
Demographics, region, health of population, etc all are key factors.
You refuse to think in those terms.
In other words you refuse to adjust your thinking to real world data in terms of what the virus is doing. You have tunnel vision.
