US Men's National Team - what went wrong?

bruinblue14 said:
^^^ I really hope you're right. Watched one of NWSL semifinal games last weekend (Courage vs Red Stars) both of which have several USWNT players and it was kind of awful to watch. No more than 3 passes connected. So many passes to no where and no one. So much panic on the ball. It just seemed like they didn't know how to play any way other than just run run run as fast as you can. The lack of intelligent play was difficult to watch.
Click to expand...
Lack of intelligent play is always hard to watch.
 
Grace T. said:
Great article. "they are pretty good at development too". Well, that's the point. The Spanish have a long tradition of playing it at the feet and building. The Americans have a long tradition of trying to use their athleticism in direct soccer as opposed to finesse. There are two ways to go at this. One is to say run-and-sock 'em soccer is o.k....it's just our American style...s the rondos and the passing game.....s the rest of the thinking soccer is a negative game about mistake avoidance instead of making the score....let's develop our own American style based on who we are and what works and stop trying to imitate others.
The other is to say that the possession game really matters and we should try to develop it...but it takes time to develop that game and teams that try to do it are going to lose against teams that play the direct style...since we have a play to pay system, and coaches are only judged on wins/loses (there really is no other official stick parents have to judge them, in fairness to the parents), the emphasis on winning and losing hurts the development of the possession game, especially early on. U.S. Soccer, rightly or wrongly, has made the decision learning the possession game is important, and its recommendations are to deemphasize winning as a result until age 12, but they lacked the courage of their convictions to make that mandatory, which meant nothing changed. It's like the old saying, you can have it fast, good or cheap...pick two. You can have it competitive, possession-oriented or professional, pick 2, under the current pay to play system.

Note Spain doesn't have the same pay to play system. They select kids from a very early age. What jumped out at me most about the article was 8 hour bus trip. It's a job to these kids. It's their future, so of course they are invested in it. Video review and then laps before training even begins? Well they don't say but you can imagine how much time they are practicing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this article. IMO, here in the US the teaching of "Winning doesn't matter" is much bigger than soccer and is a lifestyle we are teaching our kids that permeates throughout all facets of life and is what "They" have told us needs to be done. We are paying for that everywhere. I worked for a Big 4 Accounting Firm (that hires the best and the brightest requiring a 3.5 GPA or above...I however snuck in) and last year they did away with the ranking system by group where a 22 year old professional would be ranked against their peers and annual raises would be given based on that ranking (i.e. highest ranking received highest raise.) That practice had been done for decades. They learned that THIS GENERATION IS NOT MOTIVATED BY COMPETITION and that the ranking system did more harm than good and these professionals expected reward after 3 months of work. The studies have shown that these kids are not brought up to think for themselves, plan, or even do things for themselves. I just dropped my daughter off at sophomore registration a couple of months ago and she told me she was one of the only ones that didn't have a parent at the registration. Is she not capable of following the signs and asking questions? In the US we aren't teaching our kids to believe in their own ability, to take risks, and their own decision making in all facets of life so I believe that plays a role in how our soccer players play the game too. Our kids here in the US also have every technology known to man. When my daughter is grounded from technology she asks me to practice with her (she is a Keeper so she needs someone) or just this last weekend she asked me to go watch Socal Blues play San Diego Surf at her age level. She would have NEVER done that if she wasn't grounded. I think the fact that we are a society of mother hovers that don't teach our kids to be individuals that think and do for themselves taking appropriate risks also plays a role in how our players are developed as a nation. They are taught "Winning doesn't matter" but at some point it does. My daughter asked me about playoffs and I told her that for her age there isn't going to be playoffs because "They" believe winning doesn't matter for her age. She then said; "Yeah it does! Why am I doing this if it doesn't matter?!". LOL
 
This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.

We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.

SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.

Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.

SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.

SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".

SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.

There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.

So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy.

Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally.

Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)
 
Eagle33 said:
Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?
Click to expand...

McKennie and Pulisic both made the first team in the Bundesliga after only a year with their clubs. Very impressive results. Schalke has a number of top Americans. A ton of talent is being pulled from the DA teams into Germany. Unless our pro league changes, we won't be able to keep kids in the US once they grow beyond the talent of our DA system.
 
The US Men's National Team and the FC Dallas Academy Problem
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/so...-mens-national-team-fc-dallas-academy-problem

You may have asked, "what exactly is pay-for-play and why is it bad for the USMNT?"

"Let's look at FC Dallas for example. They currently have about 5000 kids in the FC Dallas Youth system, both boys and girls. According to people we've talked to, on a rough average they each pay $3000 per year for the club fee (again before kit and travel expenses). That's $15 million in revenue for FC Dallas.

Now there are a lot of expenses and overhead FCD is paying, but a lot of those are sunk costs FCD (and Frisco?) paid up front. Sunk costs like building the complex at the stadium. Make no mistake FC Dallas is making a profit off their youth club. Since the senior club breaks even at best, and probably losses money some years, the youth profit is potentially FCD's only profit.

Soccer in the US is a roughly $4 billion industry but most of the profit, outside of the gear and equipment companies, is in the massive clubs. There is a lot of money at stake and they won't want to give it up

Why is Pay-For-Play a problem for the US Men's National Team?

The problem as it relates to the National Team is that pay-for-play creates a barrier to entry for kids. Effectively, only kids whose families can afford it can play soccer. Particularly high level elite soccer which is even more expensive. You can easily see how this limits the pool of players to only kids with money"

The second problem the pay-for-play system creates is the emphasis it places on volume. If clubs revenue is tied to player fees then profit is based on the number of players the club has. The more players, the more volume, and the more profit.

Instead of putting efforts into creating the best players and teams, a.k.a quality, the incentive for clubs is to add as many teams and players as possible with no regard for the quality of said teams and players, a.k.a quantity.

You can see this in FC Dallas' 5000 kids on teams stretching from Arkansas to El Paso.

The FCD Academy is free-to-play as the academy teams are subsidized and paid for by all the youth team fees. FCD needs pay-for-play for the FCD Academy teams to exist and function. The youth clubs prop up the whole FCD system.

Side note: Most academy teams aren't free, not even all the MLS academy teams are free.

The actual problem for FCD isn't that how pay-for-play works, it's that pay-for-play is the system we have rather than one that compensates the club if a player moves to a professional team.

The solution then?

Look, I'm certainly no youth soccer expert. But it seems quite clear to me. Having incentive from profit to be based on quality and not quantity seems like a good idea.

 
Hired Gun said:
Sad day in US Soccer. Many fingers have been pointed to why.
1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
2. Youth Soccer Structure
3. Best US athletes playing other sports
4. Winning over Development
5. MLS weak compared to other world leagues
6. Youth Soccer is played by the wealthy, top youth players can't afford club enviroment
7. US Soccer structure is a mess
8. Soccer is not top 4 sport in US.
9. Top US Soccer players need to travel oversees to get strong completion and get paid
10. Most US citizens lack passion for the sport
And the list goes on and on...
Click to expand...
My take:
kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time. But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out.
Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.
 
El Clasico said:
Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
Everybody is too comfortable
MLS is making decent enough money
USSF is making a killing
Cash Clubs love their business model just the way it is
Parents are addicted to the Pay to Pay model because, honestly, if we got rid of it, half of the white, suburban, upper middle class kids who now play would be watching true ballers from the bench. Forget about the kids, what would that do to all those self-important parent's, sitting around with their Starbucks, self esteem?

So then what gives? Which group is going to be the first to step up and rally for change?

Like I said....Absolutely nothing will change.

The USMNT sucks. But hey, don't mess with it. I got a good thing going here.
Click to expand...
you had me until you went racist
 
jose said:
My take:
kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time. But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out.
Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.
Click to expand...
Agree completely. It's the work you do on your own that makes a great player. A kid who plays pickup for all his free time after school is the kid who develops love for the game and will do the extra wall ball, cone drills, fast footwork Coerver drills, juggle, practice shooting and free kicks on his own. People expecting academies and coaches to build great players from the ground up are asking too much, and it's not what is happening in the rest of the world. The level of talent entering academies is already high and was self developed or trained by a dad who knew what he was doing. There are so many ex-pro or semipro players all over Europe and S. America that talent gets developed before the boys even enter academy.
 
jose said:
you had me until you went racist
Click to expand...
I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid.

Great discussion a year ago here:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530

I recommend this one as well:
https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

Due to the failure of the USMNT of late, the topics have been brought up. Cant get rid of pay-to-play, but can try to make sure it is more affordable. Can also get USSF to weed out the insurance salesmen and lawyers making clubs for profit. Need to certify and verify clubs to make sure they arent ATMS
 
Slow Jamin said:
This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.

We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.

SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.

Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.

SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.

SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".

SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.

There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.

So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy.

Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally.

Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)
Click to expand...

Not new that MLS is about making money. Their ideals dont align with making US Soccer better. Academies are a joke, very limited and only in place to get ROI in 3-4 years. If an idea doesnt make MLS money, not interested. They are content with the model. Would take someone outside the circle to make changes. There's a reason US Soccer and MLS dont extend calls to certain ex players and coaches - well the ones who they know will voice their own opinions. Gulati will be in charge again, just due to the fact he is directly connected to the US Bid for the World Cup. Just have to hope voices like Taylor Twellman and Eric Wynalda (yeah go figure) will be loud enough to make SOME change.
 
In light of U.S. Men’s National Team’s monumental World Cup qualifying failure, the United Premier Soccer League (UPSL) wants to join the overwhelming call for change in leadership at U.S. Soccer, and an independent review of resources and systems that have affected all levels of the game in this great soccer nation.
http://goalnation.com/httpgoalnation-comupsl-takes-stand-amidst-turmoil-in-american-soccer/

"The NASL, USL, UPSL, NPSL, PDL, USASA Elite & NISA should unite all across America, united by a proper Promotion/Relegation model.

The UPSL vigorously contends that U.S. Soccer needs to enact a new player registration system allowing pro, amateur and youth clubs the opportunity to own respective player passes as a vehicle to generate income via player transfers. This will grow clubs, stimulate investment, and produce better talent for the U.S. National teams, which ultimately gives the U.S. better results on the international stage.

Currently, no amateur clubs or youth teams in the U.S. control or own their own player passes versus the system in place worldwide that is producing tremendous talent and financial results for international clubs and countries both big and small"

"The UPSL wants to be clear and direct that the U.S. Soccer structure needs new leadership willing to make hard decisions now, and initiate a new player registration system that allows clubs to own their own player passes while at the same time initiating a consolidated Pro/Rel system in the lower Pro Development tiers"
 
Azzurri said:
Claudio Reyna: Culture of Arrogance in American Soccer

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/claudio-reyna-culture-of-arrogance-within-american-soccer-66217/
Click to expand...
Can you imagine Claudio Reyna coming in to talk to kids or do some training and coaches ignoring his input? I guess I can because Ive seen coaches do it all the time to real knowledgeable coaches. Worse when other coaches dont even know who they are talking to (people dont go around with resumes on their shirts) or figure the guy next to them doesnt know as much as they do. How can anyone know more than them - all two or three licenses worth of knowledge and little playing experience. Ive even seen this attitude down to AYSO soccer dad with parents. Many Latino parents, who have club experience in their countries, often get asked/told not to teach their kids certain things or ask them "do you know about soccer? do you have a coaching license?". had a soccer mom come to a parent tryout meeting and tell the coaches "im licensed, so I can help run training if needed". Some of it is innocent ignorance, like the soccer mom, but some is just plain arrogance as Reyna said. Some of it at its worst is racist - how can Juanito's dad driving the beat up Honda know more than me? Some of this has been talked about on a few podcasts I previously posted.
 
Landon Donovan Mulling Run for U.S. Soccer President

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-considering-running-for-us-soccer-president

"The nominations for U.S. Soccer presidential candidates are due on Dec. 12, and SI.com has learned that Landon Donovan is seriously considering running for U.S. Soccer president.

Donovan, who had no comment, has been asked by a number of respected figures in American soccer to contemplate running. They’re concerned about Sunil Gulati continuing to control decisions on the technical side—including hiring head coaches—and think Donovan is better qualified to handle the soccer aspects of the job.

If Donovan were to run, it would be a game-changer in the campaign to become the elected leader of U.S. Soccer.

Donovan, one of the most decorated players in the country's history, holds a share of the U.S. men's all-time scoring record with Clint Dempsey (57) and is the USA's all-time men's assist leader with 58."
 
Not_that_Serious said:
I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid.

Great discussion a year ago here:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530

I recommend this one as well:
https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

Due to the failure of the USMNT of late, the topics have been brought up. Cant get rid of pay-to-play, but can try to make sure it is more affordable. Can also get USSF to weed out the insurance salesmen and lawyers making clubs for profit. Need to certify and verify clubs to make sure they arent ATMS
Click to expand...

Pay to play is a popular buzz word. Nothing is free. In fact baseball/softball are the cheapest club teams then soccer. volleyball hockey, LAX basketball are all ridiculous amounts of money. Even AYSO cost a small fee but parents are lining fields and playing referee. Club is expensive but the reality the coaches don't make squat even at the expensive clubs until olders. That is why they have 3-4 teams hustling with privates or setting up pick up games and futsal. Ayso is great for the community but the guy coaching often times is just a dad doing his part being a good dad and member of the community. Many haven't played so are learning on the fly. as afar as the country club stuff the coaches are not dumb they go where the money is. The people with the money are often delusional. And gullible. They ruin it for their kids. Instead of going to watch their kid play then criticize on stuff they have no idea about they should just go and be grateful their kid can play. the silly quote isn't so silly "i just love to watch you play"
 
  • Like
Reactions: JJP
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top