US Men's National Team - what went wrong?

BarcaLover said:
I know it wouldn't happen in a million years because USSF frowns on him, but I would love to see what Brian Kleiban could do as manager of the USMNT.
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How are his team/s doing? What are group is he with now?
 
Hired Gun said:
Sad day in US Soccer. Many fingers have been pointed to why.
1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
2. Youth Soccer Structure
3. Best US athletes playing other sports
4. Winning over Development
5. MLS weak compared to other world leagues
6. Youth Soccer is played by the wealthy, top youth players can't afford club enviroment
7. US Soccer structure is a mess
8. Soccer is not top 4 sport in US.
9. Top US Soccer players need to travel oversees to get strong completion and get paid
10. Most US citizens lack passion for the sport
And the list goes on and on...
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My take:
kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time. But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out.
Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.
 
El Clasico said:
Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
Everybody is too comfortable
MLS is making decent enough money
USSF is making a killing
Cash Clubs love their business model just the way it is
Parents are addicted to the Pay to Pay model because, honestly, if we got rid of it, half of the white, suburban, upper middle class kids who now play would be watching true ballers from the bench. Forget about the kids, what would that do to all those self-important parent's, sitting around with their Starbucks, self esteem?

So then what gives? Which group is going to be the first to step up and rally for change?

Like I said....Absolutely nothing will change.

The USMNT sucks. But hey, don't mess with it. I got a good thing going here.
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you had me until you went racist
 
jose said:
My take:
kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time. But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out.
Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.
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Agree completely. It's the work you do on your own that makes a great player. A kid who plays pickup for all his free time after school is the kid who develops love for the game and will do the extra wall ball, cone drills, fast footwork Coerver drills, juggle, practice shooting and free kicks on his own. People expecting academies and coaches to build great players from the ground up are asking too much, and it's not what is happening in the rest of the world. The level of talent entering academies is already high and was self developed or trained by a dad who knew what he was doing. There are so many ex-pro or semipro players all over Europe and S. America that talent gets developed before the boys even enter academy.
 
jose said:
you had me until you went racist
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I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid.

Great discussion a year ago here:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530

I recommend this one as well:
https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

Due to the failure of the USMNT of late, the topics have been brought up. Cant get rid of pay-to-play, but can try to make sure it is more affordable. Can also get USSF to weed out the insurance salesmen and lawyers making clubs for profit. Need to certify and verify clubs to make sure they arent ATMS
 
Slow Jamin said:
This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.

We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.

SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.

Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.

SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.

SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".

SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.

There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.

So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy.

Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally.

Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)
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Not new that MLS is about making money. Their ideals dont align with making US Soccer better. Academies are a joke, very limited and only in place to get ROI in 3-4 years. If an idea doesnt make MLS money, not interested. They are content with the model. Would take someone outside the circle to make changes. There's a reason US Soccer and MLS dont extend calls to certain ex players and coaches - well the ones who they know will voice their own opinions. Gulati will be in charge again, just due to the fact he is directly connected to the US Bid for the World Cup. Just have to hope voices like Taylor Twellman and Eric Wynalda (yeah go figure) will be loud enough to make SOME change.
 
In light of U.S. Men’s National Team’s monumental World Cup qualifying failure, the United Premier Soccer League (UPSL) wants to join the overwhelming call for change in leadership at U.S. Soccer, and an independent review of resources and systems that have affected all levels of the game in this great soccer nation.
http://goalnation.com/httpgoalnation-comupsl-takes-stand-amidst-turmoil-in-american-soccer/

"The NASL, USL, UPSL, NPSL, PDL, USASA Elite & NISA should unite all across America, united by a proper Promotion/Relegation model.

The UPSL vigorously contends that U.S. Soccer needs to enact a new player registration system allowing pro, amateur and youth clubs the opportunity to own respective player passes as a vehicle to generate income via player transfers. This will grow clubs, stimulate investment, and produce better talent for the U.S. National teams, which ultimately gives the U.S. better results on the international stage.

Currently, no amateur clubs or youth teams in the U.S. control or own their own player passes versus the system in place worldwide that is producing tremendous talent and financial results for international clubs and countries both big and small"

"The UPSL wants to be clear and direct that the U.S. Soccer structure needs new leadership willing to make hard decisions now, and initiate a new player registration system that allows clubs to own their own player passes while at the same time initiating a consolidated Pro/Rel system in the lower Pro Development tiers"
 
Azzurri said:
Claudio Reyna: Culture of Arrogance in American Soccer

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/claudio-reyna-culture-of-arrogance-within-american-soccer-66217/
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Can you imagine Claudio Reyna coming in to talk to kids or do some training and coaches ignoring his input? I guess I can because Ive seen coaches do it all the time to real knowledgeable coaches. Worse when other coaches dont even know who they are talking to (people dont go around with resumes on their shirts) or figure the guy next to them doesnt know as much as they do. How can anyone know more than them - all two or three licenses worth of knowledge and little playing experience. Ive even seen this attitude down to AYSO soccer dad with parents. Many Latino parents, who have club experience in their countries, often get asked/told not to teach their kids certain things or ask them "do you know about soccer? do you have a coaching license?". had a soccer mom come to a parent tryout meeting and tell the coaches "im licensed, so I can help run training if needed". Some of it is innocent ignorance, like the soccer mom, but some is just plain arrogance as Reyna said. Some of it at its worst is racist - how can Juanito's dad driving the beat up Honda know more than me? Some of this has been talked about on a few podcasts I previously posted.
 
Landon Donovan Mulling Run for U.S. Soccer President

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-considering-running-for-us-soccer-president

"The nominations for U.S. Soccer presidential candidates are due on Dec. 12, and SI.com has learned that Landon Donovan is seriously considering running for U.S. Soccer president.

Donovan, who had no comment, has been asked by a number of respected figures in American soccer to contemplate running. They’re concerned about Sunil Gulati continuing to control decisions on the technical side—including hiring head coaches—and think Donovan is better qualified to handle the soccer aspects of the job.

If Donovan were to run, it would be a game-changer in the campaign to become the elected leader of U.S. Soccer.

Donovan, one of the most decorated players in the country's history, holds a share of the U.S. men's all-time scoring record with Clint Dempsey (57) and is the USA's all-time men's assist leader with 58."
 
Not_that_Serious said:
I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid.

Great discussion a year ago here:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530

I recommend this one as well:
https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

Due to the failure of the USMNT of late, the topics have been brought up. Cant get rid of pay-to-play, but can try to make sure it is more affordable. Can also get USSF to weed out the insurance salesmen and lawyers making clubs for profit. Need to certify and verify clubs to make sure they arent ATMS
Click to expand...

Pay to play is a popular buzz word. Nothing is free. In fact baseball/softball are the cheapest club teams then soccer. volleyball hockey, LAX basketball are all ridiculous amounts of money. Even AYSO cost a small fee but parents are lining fields and playing referee. Club is expensive but the reality the coaches don't make squat even at the expensive clubs until olders. That is why they have 3-4 teams hustling with privates or setting up pick up games and futsal. Ayso is great for the community but the guy coaching often times is just a dad doing his part being a good dad and member of the community. Many haven't played so are learning on the fly. as afar as the country club stuff the coaches are not dumb they go where the money is. The people with the money are often delusional. And gullible. They ruin it for their kids. Instead of going to watch their kid play then criticize on stuff they have no idea about they should just go and be grateful their kid can play. the silly quote isn't so silly "i just love to watch you play"
 
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mirage said:
Landon Donovan Mulling Run for U.S. Soccer President

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-considering-running-for-us-soccer-president

"The nominations for U.S. Soccer presidential candidates are due on Dec. 12, and SI.com has learned that Landon Donovan is seriously considering running for U.S. Soccer president.

Donovan, who had no comment, has been asked by a number of respected figures in American soccer to contemplate running. They’re concerned about Sunil Gulati continuing to control decisions on the technical side—including hiring head coaches—and think Donovan is better qualified to handle the soccer aspects of the job.

If Donovan were to run, it would be a game-changer in the campaign to become the elected leader of U.S. Soccer.

Donovan, one of the most decorated players in the country's history, holds a share of the U.S. men's all-time scoring record with Clint Dempsey (57) and is the USA's all-time men's assist leader with 58."
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But does he know how to finance an MLS team?
 
jose said:
Pay to play is a popular buzz word. Nothing is free. In fact baseball/softball are the cheapest club teams then soccer. volleyball hockey, LAX basketball are all ridiculous amounts of money. Even AYSO cost a small fee but parents are lining fields and playing referee. Club is expensive but the reality the coaches don't make squat even at the expensive clubs until olders. That is why they have 3-4 teams hustling with privates or setting up pick up games and futsal. Ayso is great for the community but the guy coaching often times is just a dad doing his part being a good dad and member of the community. Many haven't played so are learning on the fly. as afar as the country club stuff the coaches are not dumb they go where the money is. The people with the money are often delusional. And gullible. They ruin it for their kids. Instead of going to watch their kid play then criticize on stuff they have no idea about they should just go and be grateful their kid can play. the silly quote isn't so silly "i just love to watch you play"
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Lol. That will never happen.
 
younothat said:
US Soccer scouting ignoring some key population centers

U.S. Soccer’s 10 full time scouts need to do more to find talent in all parts of the country.
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/u...16501882/usa-usmnt-us-soccer-scouting-lacking
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They arent ignoring areas on purpose. They havent put the resources in. We are larger than other countries. Germany, for instance, has "thousands" of scouts, but how many are coaches & scouts from pro clubs? They have the financial incentive to find the talent as well. The other issue is MLS doesnt have teams in many areas and no club/academies in the areas. Would be hard for them to monitor them if they are not within the greater city area they are established in. That brings in the opportunity for 2nd/3rd tier clubs to establish themselves - but what incentive do they have? No pro/rel, so financial incentive to start-up, develop talent, sell talent or keep talent and hope to get promoted. So up to USSF to do things in those areas - which is a different how other countries' federations work. We are smart enough to figure it out, plenty of ideas out there, but almost sure to lose a battle with an establishment that has the power, resources and no financial incentive to change. You almost have to approach them talking dollars and lots of them. That is why Ricardo Silva (miami fc) came at MLS with $4Billion just to stir up the convo of pro/rel - otherwise he can never own an MLS team in the area since they just handed one to Becks.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
They arent ignoring areas on purpose. They havent put the resources in. We are larger than other countries. Germany, for instance, has "thousands" of scouts, but how many are coaches & scouts from pro clubs? They have the financial incentive to find the talent as well. The other issue is MLS doesnt have teams in many areas and no club/academies in the areas. Would be hard for them to monitor them if they are not within the greater city area they are established in. That brings in the opportunity for 2nd/3rd tier clubs to establish themselves - but what incentive do they have? No pro/rel, so financial incentive to start-up, develop talent, sell talent or keep talent and hope to get promoted. So up to USSF to do things in those areas - which is a different how other countries' federations work. We are smart enough to figure it out, plenty of ideas out there, but almost sure to lose a battle with an establishment that has the power, resources and no financial incentive to change. You almost have to approach them talking dollars and lots of them. That is why Ricardo Silva (miami fc) came at MLS with $4Billion just to stir up the convo of pro/rel - otherwise he can never own an MLS team in the area since they just handed one to Becks.
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$4Billion and it was a non-starter. That is how difficult of a road we have ahead of us. It won't be in our lifetime
 
Youth Soccer in the USA is 99% about MONEY, MONEY and MONEY! The scam is out of control! Lets get real we in the USA have almost 400 million people to choose from, world class athletic training facilities second to none in the world! And according to every single US club coach I have ever met the best youth clubs in the world! And yet they cant win a world title and now they cant even make the cut to play for a title!!! What does this say about the US club soccer programs??? It is yet another shining example of the pure greed and scam American club soccer truly is.
The women's team has done pretty good over the past 10-15 years but considering all the resources the American team has with the above mentioned examples they are not consistently cutting it to the caliber they should be. This all starts with the grass roots supposedly preparing club players for bigger and better things. Considering the time and money we have all handed these clubs obviously OUR KIDS ARE NOT getting the product we are being sold! The clubs are all the exact same with their chase to grab your wallet at all cost and almost zero care for the future of the players, the clubs treat the majority of players and families like sheep with nothing more than a # and a profile of how much profit they can use you and your family for. I would love to hear the line of pure BS excuses these clubs have about the sorry ass excuse for the US men's soccer team we all just witnessed being kicked out like some 3rd world country's attempt at playing with the big boys!
There is an upside to the scam, that is with all the money we as families are willing to let the clubs charge us is starting a huge influx of Euro coaches coming to America for their piece of the action! They love it, they have never seen such a easy way to make real money dealing with idiots willing to hand over their hard earned cash based on NOTHING more than cheap lip service!
 
@EricWynalda on running for President of @usaoccer and why @sunilgulati is doing it wrong.
https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure...episodes/406c7684-574b-49a0-9b3c-bc55e8110e4b

"When you really look and dig down at the professional level and see what’s going on a tiers 1, 2 and 3, it is the most disorganized professional outfit on the planet. Then you try to look at the youth organizations who are trying to develop the next superstars and they are even more fragmented than the pros. While we sit back and celebrate all this growth, it is almost that we have to remind people that cancer grows organically too.

“If you don’t have a vision and don’t have a means of getting everybody understanding exactly what their function is within the system, it is not going to work. We are celebrating it right now but the truth is it needs a lot of change, in a hurry, if soccer is going to make sense in this country because we are almost growing out of control. We have become a weed. We talk about grassroots but we have a lot of weeds. This is not the way it is supposed to be.”

“Is there talent? Absolutely. Absolutely. I would argue that there are 100 more Christian Pulisic’s out there. That is quite the statement. I’m coming from practice right now with a bunch of amateur guys that we discovered an 18-year-old Mexican-American boy in a Sunday league two weeks ago and he’s probably going to be the best guy on my team this year. These are the kind of things that are misunderstood.

“I went on the podium the other day and said we don’t have time for a president who has one foot in New York and one foot in Switzerland, we need a president that has boots on the ground now and starts solving some of the problems. That talent is out there. We just have to find them and make sure we take care of that.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/potential-president-wynalda-discusses-plans-144803221.html
 
younothat said:
@EricWynalda on running for President of @usaoccer and why @sunilgulati is doing it wrong.
https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure...episodes/406c7684-574b-49a0-9b3c-bc55e8110e4b

"When you really look and dig down at the professional level and see what’s going on a tiers 1, 2 and 3, it is the most disorganized professional outfit on the planet. Then you try to look at the youth organizations who are trying to develop the next superstars and they are even more fragmented than the pros. While we sit back and celebrate all this growth, it is almost that we have to remind people that cancer grows organically too.

“If you don’t have a vision and don’t have a means of getting everybody understanding exactly what their function is within the system, it is not going to work. We are celebrating it right now but the truth is it needs a lot of change, in a hurry, if soccer is going to make sense in this country because we are almost growing out of control. We have become a weed. We talk about grassroots but we have a lot of weeds. This is not the way it is supposed to be.”

“Is there talent? Absolutely. Absolutely. I would argue that there are 100 more Christian Pulisic’s out there. That is quite the statement. I’m coming from practice right now with a bunch of amateur guys that we discovered an 18-year-old Mexican-American boy in a Sunday league two weeks ago and he’s probably going to be the best guy on my team this year. These are the kind of things that are misunderstood.

“I went on the podium the other day and said we don’t have time for a president who has one foot in New York and one foot in Switzerland, we need a president that has boots on the ground now and starts solving some of the problems. That talent is out there. We just have to find them and make sure we take care of that.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/potential-president-wynalda-discusses-plans-144803221.html
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Way to much money involved to really invest the time and effort needed to find the raw talent in the youth soccer world.
The revenue for these US youth soccer clubs is all based on quantity not quality. This system has taken on a life of its own and money always wins over everything.
The clubs are burning families and children out with their new fancy titles, tournaments and year around 4 days a week, 300 plus days a year training and traveling almost every weekend! They are ruining a great sport.
Greed ruins passion. Look at what has happened to some of the SD based clubs that went and became Devolomental clubs! Their wins and loses are horrible because the destroyed all the teams for profit!
It's emploding as we watch.
 
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