True development at the youth level is not measured in wins and losses.
US Men's National Team - what went wrong?
- Thread starter Hired Gun
- Start date
True development at the youth level is not measured in wins and losses.
El Clasico
GOLD
True statement but....winning is an indisputable by product of development...
sandshark
SILVER ELITE
Winning is the measure 99% of every crazy soccer family chooses their next team and club by. And the clubs know this so they exaggerate, manipulate and promote winning in any form possible. It's a great tool for the clubs and a bad tool for young players to try and learn by.
El Clasico
GOLD
Agree - 10 times
I'm all for holding leadership accountable and improving coaching standards, but there is absolutely no way that will be enough to catch up to the rest of the world. There is not enough money or coaches to babysit kids through 10,000 hours.
We have to create a culture where kids go out and play on their own, get a lot of touches, and come to academies with their 1v1 game practically built. I would bet my house that if the kids in this country played as many hours of pickup soccer as they spent on their playstations or phones we would be one of the best in the world.
We have to create a culture where kids go out and play on their own, get a lot of touches, and come to academies with their 1v1 game practically built. I would bet my house that if the kids in this country played as many hours of pickup soccer as they spent on their playstations or phones we would be one of the best in the world.
sandshark
SILVER ELITE
That is again BS coach talk!
If your child is training 4 days per week after school and playing out of town games almost every weekend while trying to do well in HS and maintain any type of life outside of soccer how the hell could they ever find time to play pick up games!
I guess if they had zero life out side of soccer they could play some more soccer. I think the issue is they are burnt out and being pushed threw a system that is based on the numbers / volume of players way above any kind of quality development system.
I've read the 10,000 hr stuff and my reaction was so what. It just doesn't fit our lifestyle in US.
BUT, here is post from another thread (2 quick things: My apology to the OP for using it outside of his thread as an example here, and is very typical comments by US coaches not just in DA but also in college soccer). My reaction to the statement was this is exactly the reason why the are where we are.
"Player has been shown interest by DA teams. First time in DA. Is it better to be one of the better players on a less successful DA team or a bottom player on one of the top DA teams? Looking for development. Physically - tall, strong and fast. Needs to develop positioning and ball skills."
Followed up by:
"DA Coaches are interested. Player is good enough for DA. If not DA , it is just another high level SCDSL or CSL team. - already there.
Positioning and ball skills are relative - They can always be better and improved.
Comment by coaches.... I can help with ball skills and positioning ....harder to make a player faster or taller or more competing -those are main strengths already has."
Without making judgement of the player in the example, the issue is the coach's reaction to the player's physical attributes and downplaying the importance of skills and field awareness (positioning).
Frankly, if you apply the American value of bigger, faster is better, then this is what you have. The skills of players are not relative but absolute in terms of what needs to be executed. Its only relative to the players around you on the field. And there's the problem. Vast majority of youth players have not developed adequate skills and by the time they are in HS then onto college age, its too hard for them to improve technical skills. Its an order of magnitude easier to learn technical skills at 8 yrs than at 12 yrs old. And another order of magnitude harder at 14 yrs when puberty has set in than at 12 yrs.
The notion of any coach saying something to the effect that skills and positioning is easier to teach than speed or height, as they relate to competitive soccer is nonsense and is one of the key underlying problem with our youth system. We've all seen it. Put the tallest, fastest kid at the top and kick the ball to him. Let him chase it and shoot it for a goal - score!!!!! Where's the skill in that?
Obviously, these young players grow up and they become aware of how the rest of the world plays and tries to catchup but its simply too late. Besides, their successes came by playing with their strong and born with attribute and not highly developed skills and knowledge.
Unfortunately, no matter how fast a player is, he is still slower than the moving ball with an intent and no matter how tall he is, it won't matter if the ball is on the ground.
Academy doesn't start until u12, there's plenty of time before academy to play pickup. You guys who are arguing against pickup, with all due respect, are wrong and ignorant about the history of soccer. The greatest ever soccer players developed their skills playing pickup and street soccer and were then scouted into academies and were instant stars.
There is a series on YouTube about the games greatest players. When talking about the greatest ever to play, it sounds like a broken record. The names and faces change, but the words don't. "He always had a ball at his feet . . . Every day he would run out and play until the sun went down . . . He was the best player in the club from the moment he put on an academy uniform."
Even academies are playing futsal to give their players the experience of street soccer, where spaces are smaller and there are fewer players, so there's more touches in tight spaces.
The kid who plays pickup with all his free time loves soccer. The kid who does PlayStation in his free time and plays during scheduled, organized practices loves PlayStation. The kid who has to have a coach around to practice costs a lot of money to develop. The kid who plays on his own develops for free. If I'm in charge, I want to create programs in the US where I can select from a player pool of kids who love to play more than anything and have the self-initiative to become great on their own.
I'm not going to post anymore on the value of pickup soccer. I'm just just shaking my head.
There is a series on YouTube about the games greatest players. When talking about the greatest ever to play, it sounds like a broken record. The names and faces change, but the words don't. "He always had a ball at his feet . . . Every day he would run out and play until the sun went down . . . He was the best player in the club from the moment he put on an academy uniform."
Even academies are playing futsal to give their players the experience of street soccer, where spaces are smaller and there are fewer players, so there's more touches in tight spaces.
The kid who plays pickup with all his free time loves soccer. The kid who does PlayStation in his free time and plays during scheduled, organized practices loves PlayStation. The kid who has to have a coach around to practice costs a lot of money to develop. The kid who plays on his own develops for free. If I'm in charge, I want to create programs in the US where I can select from a player pool of kids who love to play more than anything and have the self-initiative to become great on their own.
I'm not going to post anymore on the value of pickup soccer. I'm just just shaking my head.
100% agree the players that are stars in any sport play all day all night as a kid. they perfect their moves when there is no coach around to tell them to stop screwing around and do the drill he/ she set up. A parent on my sons team say he has to drag his boy out of the water from surfing. "he's in the from 6 am until 4 pm when i make him get out"......well guess where his passion lies? not on a soccer field.
younothat
PREMIER
MLS and U.S. Soccer need synergy, and changing the schedule is the key
The MLS schedule is holding us back, and it’s something that should be looked at fixing.
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2...s-soccer-mls-schedule-fifa-fall-spring-summer
"MLS ....needs to adopt the fall (late summer) to spring schedule that the rest of the top five leagues in the world play. It can keep the playoffs and hold onto MLS Cup, but adopting the scheduling norms of the best leagues in the world will help MLS and the USMNT. This issue, among many others, was discussed on a recent episode of the Total Soccer Show, and the entire podcast is worth a listen.
The MLS schedule is holding us back, and it’s something that should be looked at fixing.
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2...s-soccer-mls-schedule-fifa-fall-spring-summer
"MLS ....needs to adopt the fall (late summer) to spring schedule that the rest of the top five leagues in the world play. It can keep the playoffs and hold onto MLS Cup, but adopting the scheduling norms of the best leagues in the world will help MLS and the USMNT. This issue, among many others, was discussed on a recent episode of the Total Soccer Show, and the entire podcast is worth a listen.
Heck, if they can adjust our youth age groups to match the rest of the world, then surely they can change the MLS season around. It's certainly got to be easier than changing registration and teams for a few million kids. Adding new field dimensions, goal sizes and roster sizes. And then throwing in a new competitive league for female players.
But only a byproduct. The true measurement should be in improvements of skill and team play, unless the whole point of the program is to win a domestic tournament once a year.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
IMO issues arent hard to solve if those in charge are willing to make the changes - also if others will follow the changes. problem is the $ factor. those who FEEL they will lose money will resist. this system has been in place for at least 40-50 years?
If you look at the map, posted in earlier link, where talent is being pulled from you notice not every state is being repped. So my natural thought is to use our gov model. Set up organizing bodies, like Cal South, to run programs under the umbrella of USSF. Bigger states have to be split up. These orgs can certify/verify clubs (remove flyby-night clubs and snakeoil salesman), provide licensing education, player camps, combines, etc. State Orgs can even run a league or combine the ones that exist - too many leagues at the moment and have leagues run in a manner that doesnt improve players.
License costs need to go down and have more dates available locally. Germany A license is roughly $600 with US charging $4k before travel. Thats insane. Offer C's and B's opps to go for A at low cost, or even free. Offer E's and D's opps to improve as well. Our coaching pool improves, player pool will improve. Just need to get into areas that are ignored. Need more organization and USSF cant manage a country this large without help. Again, this is a matter of $ (business) vs improvement. Can make less money and improve quicker or focus on more $ and continue the same.
If USSF really wants to blow things up, they go to community based clubs via an umbrella of State Orgs. So Cal has I believe TWO community based clubs - ones where main admins dont get paid. Feed money via USSF , with partnerships with cities/counties to fund clubs. When cities/counties donate field time, it drops costs. Politicians would jump on projects that would help out get them votes... i mean things that would enrich their districts. Still have to have pay-to-play but allows for more opps for scholarships. You wont get as many club jumpers and get more involvement when you play at your local club. Then again as mentioned, this would involve changing much of the club culture - win now, arrogance, etc. Also, big clubs making $ dont want community based clubs to grow.
If you look at the map, posted in earlier link, where talent is being pulled from you notice not every state is being repped. So my natural thought is to use our gov model. Set up organizing bodies, like Cal South, to run programs under the umbrella of USSF. Bigger states have to be split up. These orgs can certify/verify clubs (remove flyby-night clubs and snakeoil salesman), provide licensing education, player camps, combines, etc. State Orgs can even run a league or combine the ones that exist - too many leagues at the moment and have leagues run in a manner that doesnt improve players.
License costs need to go down and have more dates available locally. Germany A license is roughly $600 with US charging $4k before travel. Thats insane. Offer C's and B's opps to go for A at low cost, or even free. Offer E's and D's opps to improve as well. Our coaching pool improves, player pool will improve. Just need to get into areas that are ignored. Need more organization and USSF cant manage a country this large without help. Again, this is a matter of $ (business) vs improvement. Can make less money and improve quicker or focus on more $ and continue the same.
If USSF really wants to blow things up, they go to community based clubs via an umbrella of State Orgs. So Cal has I believe TWO community based clubs - ones where main admins dont get paid. Feed money via USSF , with partnerships with cities/counties to fund clubs. When cities/counties donate field time, it drops costs. Politicians would jump on projects that would help out get them votes... i mean things that would enrich their districts. Still have to have pay-to-play but allows for more opps for scholarships. You wont get as many club jumpers and get more involvement when you play at your local club. Then again as mentioned, this would involve changing much of the club culture - win now, arrogance, etc. Also, big clubs making $ dont want community based clubs to grow.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
Wynalda already cut the legs off the MLS bs excuse about competing against other leagues if they change the schedule. Been saying it for at least 5 years. Currently MLS competes against MLB world series, college football, nfl season, and nba. As far as cold season, longer winter break.
Somebody is really reaching IMO to say that changing MLS schedule will help the national team. The points made in the article seem pretty silly to me.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
was pointed out by Wynalda, and other that players on the USMNT, that players often do not play at 100% full potential/effort when they know they have a callup looming. so they arent prepared for the level of intensity mentally and often pop a hammy because of it. said syncing the schedule would allow players to prepare properly. it also affects the transfer market and hurts players in MLS trying to go overseas to play- euro teams dont grab players during current transfer windows due to the MLS schedule.
Didn't know this, but OTOH these points could also be made by players in other pro leagues. Lot of managers complaint because they have to rest players who play a lot during international break, and lot of players get hurt right after international break due to overuse injuries. I've read managers and players in different leagues around the world complain about the international schedule.
I think hurting the transfer market is the main point, I can see European teams not wanting to buy a marginal player because he has already played a full season. However, again, I just don't see this as a big deal.
younothat
PREMIER
1,834 Days by CHRISTIAN PULISIC
in my heart, I knew it was over when we walked off the field. I think we all did.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/christian-pulisic-usmnt-world-cup/
"The first thing I want to say here, obviously, is that I’m not an expert. I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who know a lot more about national soccer programs than I do — and I hope those are the people we’ll have in charge of American soccer over the next World Cup cycle. Me, I’m just a 19 year old, in my first full year with the national team. So any insight that I can offer is only based on what I’ve experienced and observed in my career so far.
The second thing I want to say here is that I’m not a prodigy — or a “wonderboy,” as some have put it. I was always, you know, a decent player growing up. And yes, I was born with a certain amount of so-called “natural ability.” But I also worked and sacrificed a lot to try to maximize what I was born with — which I think is important to point out. I think it’s important to make clear, you know, that the problem with American soccer … it isn’t talent. In fact, I’m sure there are kids who are going to be reading this article who are more talented at their age than I ever was.
And then the third thing I want to say here is that I love American soccer. Which maybe sounds obvious — but I think a lot of people have this weird idea of USMNT players who have come up in Europe. They’ll talk about how we’re somehow less passionate about U.S. Soccer, or less American about it. That we’re these ringers or something — these outsiders brought in as, like, a cheat code to beat European sides. And it couldn’t be further from the truth.
It really frustrates me when people say, “Oh, he’s barely American,” or, “He grew up in the Dortmund academy,” or anything like that. First of all, it’s not true: Until I was 16, I came up through the U.S. youth system. I did all of the camps, the academies, the residency programs, the travel teams, and everything else it had to offer. I’ll always be a part of that system, and I’ll always be indebted to it. Second of all, I think that’s just a dangerous attitude in general: Having a closed-minded view of what does or doesn’t constitute being an American. And I hope it’s an attitude that we can keep out of this conversation in the years to come."
When people ask me what has been the biggest game-changer of my career — when they ask me, you know, “What’s the one thing that has had the biggest impact on your game so far” — that isn’t the easiest question to answer. I’ve had a lot of good fortune over the years: from supportive parents, to amazing youth academies, to incredible teammates, and on down the line.
But one thing that I’m not sure people realize, when they talk about my game, is just how lucky I’ve been to have a Croatian passport — and just how much of a difference it’s made for me.
As a result of my dual citizenship, I’ve been able to play in Europe, training at the Dortmund academy, since I was 16. Without it? I would have had to wait until I was 18. And for a soccer player … man, ask anyone and they’ll tell you — those age 16–18 years are everything. From a developmental perspective, it’s almost like this sweet spot: It’s the age where a player’s growth and skill sort of intersect, in just the right way — and where, with the right direction, a player can make their biggest leap in development by far.
In the U.S. system, too often the best player on an under-17 team will be treated like a “star” — not having to work for the ball, being the focus of the offense at all times, etc. — at a time when they should be having to fight tooth and nail for their spot. In Europe, on the other hand, the average level of ability around you is just so much higher. It’s a pool of players where everyone has been “the best player,” and everyone is fighting for a spot — truly week in and week out. Which makes the intensity and humility that you need to bring to the field every day — both from a mental and physical perspective — just unlike anything that you can really experience in U.S. developmental soccer.
Without those experiences, there’s simply no way that I would be at anywhere close to the level that I am today"
in my heart, I knew it was over when we walked off the field. I think we all did.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/christian-pulisic-usmnt-world-cup/
"The first thing I want to say here, obviously, is that I’m not an expert. I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who know a lot more about national soccer programs than I do — and I hope those are the people we’ll have in charge of American soccer over the next World Cup cycle. Me, I’m just a 19 year old, in my first full year with the national team. So any insight that I can offer is only based on what I’ve experienced and observed in my career so far.
The second thing I want to say here is that I’m not a prodigy — or a “wonderboy,” as some have put it. I was always, you know, a decent player growing up. And yes, I was born with a certain amount of so-called “natural ability.” But I also worked and sacrificed a lot to try to maximize what I was born with — which I think is important to point out. I think it’s important to make clear, you know, that the problem with American soccer … it isn’t talent. In fact, I’m sure there are kids who are going to be reading this article who are more talented at their age than I ever was.
And then the third thing I want to say here is that I love American soccer. Which maybe sounds obvious — but I think a lot of people have this weird idea of USMNT players who have come up in Europe. They’ll talk about how we’re somehow less passionate about U.S. Soccer, or less American about it. That we’re these ringers or something — these outsiders brought in as, like, a cheat code to beat European sides. And it couldn’t be further from the truth.
It really frustrates me when people say, “Oh, he’s barely American,” or, “He grew up in the Dortmund academy,” or anything like that. First of all, it’s not true: Until I was 16, I came up through the U.S. youth system. I did all of the camps, the academies, the residency programs, the travel teams, and everything else it had to offer. I’ll always be a part of that system, and I’ll always be indebted to it. Second of all, I think that’s just a dangerous attitude in general: Having a closed-minded view of what does or doesn’t constitute being an American. And I hope it’s an attitude that we can keep out of this conversation in the years to come."
When people ask me what has been the biggest game-changer of my career — when they ask me, you know, “What’s the one thing that has had the biggest impact on your game so far” — that isn’t the easiest question to answer. I’ve had a lot of good fortune over the years: from supportive parents, to amazing youth academies, to incredible teammates, and on down the line.
But one thing that I’m not sure people realize, when they talk about my game, is just how lucky I’ve been to have a Croatian passport — and just how much of a difference it’s made for me.
As a result of my dual citizenship, I’ve been able to play in Europe, training at the Dortmund academy, since I was 16. Without it? I would have had to wait until I was 18. And for a soccer player … man, ask anyone and they’ll tell you — those age 16–18 years are everything. From a developmental perspective, it’s almost like this sweet spot: It’s the age where a player’s growth and skill sort of intersect, in just the right way — and where, with the right direction, a player can make their biggest leap in development by far.
In the U.S. system, too often the best player on an under-17 team will be treated like a “star” — not having to work for the ball, being the focus of the offense at all times, etc. — at a time when they should be having to fight tooth and nail for their spot. In Europe, on the other hand, the average level of ability around you is just so much higher. It’s a pool of players where everyone has been “the best player,” and everyone is fighting for a spot — truly week in and week out. Which makes the intensity and humility that you need to bring to the field every day — both from a mental and physical perspective — just unlike anything that you can really experience in U.S. developmental soccer.
Without those experiences, there’s simply no way that I would be at anywhere close to the level that I am today"
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
Got Soccer presidential "debate" - all these guys are nice to each other
These guys could cut up Paul Caligiuri's character in 2 minutes. Loved his answers on club soccer, how he skips over his real past with club soccer and why he doesnt want to change much with club soccer. The other candidates should hand out posters with his face and say "This is why I need to run US Soccer"
These guys could cut up Paul Caligiuri's character in 2 minutes. Loved his answers on club soccer, how he skips over his real past with club soccer and why he doesnt want to change much with club soccer. The other candidates should hand out posters with his face and say "This is why I need to run US Soccer"
Mystery Train
GOLD
I saw a recap of this on ESPN FC and posted it in another thread. Really impressed with Pulisic! If only this level of logic and honesty was the norm in US soccer.
When gotsoccer is putting together a forum for the candidates to run Us soccer, then our problems are bigger than we realize.