Eagle33
PREMIER
Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?
US Men's National Team - what went wrong?
- Thread starter Hired Gun
- Start date
Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?
Mystery Train
GOLD
LOL
I don't know if Jozy Altidore would have made the cut, then. Dude looks like a mike linebacker right now. A big, yoked up striker don't mean much if the team can't possess the freakin ball or close down the opposing forwards...
He's only listed as 6', 175.
Either that's wrong or we underestimate just how little some soccer players really are.
Mystery Train
GOLD
My god, some of those through balls and long passes were perfectly weighted....like watching Tiger Woods long putt the 16th hole in the '05 Masters...that kid is dropping dimes.
MakeAPlay
DA
He played in Germany for a club team for a few years and joined FC Dallas as a U14.
MakeAPlay
DA
Tell me you wouldn't take Romelu Lukaku who is 6'3 215...
MakeAPlay
DA
Wes McKennie is bigger than that right now! He is 6'1 175-180.
MakeAPlay
DA
For an American player to start for a top quarter of the table Bundesliga side at 19 he has to be SPECIAL. Sort of like for a non-American raised/educated player to start as a rookie in the NBA.
Yeah, but he doesn't score many goals and doesn't seem to have "big kicks". He'd never make it in American soccer. (sarcasm)
MakeAPlay
DA
Have him, Pulisic and Zelalem in the midfield would be lethal!!!
Mystery Train
GOLD
Every day of the week, I would (and I'm actually a big Altidore fan)... But see my 2nd point. Without players to get him the ball, even Lukau's athleticism would be wasted.
Mystery Train
GOLD
LOL, Altidore is bigger than that too. That ain't 175. The brother may not be linebacker size, but like Bill Parcells said of Roy Williams, he's "one biscuit shy of it."
f1nfutbol fan
SILVER
my rant....
it was great that BA resigned, now the rest of marrionetist's need to leave the top side of us soccer.
not sure who should take control of the ship, but I would like to have landon donavan in the cabin helping direct things. we need people in place who can stay with the project for 12-16 years, to see things to fruition.
in my eye's, us doesnt possess a "style".... let alone the ability to consistently connect a pass to their teammate. some will say, yeah - long ball-mls, thug ball, etc. when you have players that cant string several passes together or the players are thinking his teammate is going to thump the ball up the field & turns away, when a ball is actually passed to him, it's a joke, there is pure confusion out on the field.
I was embarrassed for the us before the TnT game, when the usmnt were being carried onto the field looking like a bunch of pansies. so sad. not to mention the lack of pride or respect to be playing for the national team, let alone personal pride. Before the 1st TnT goal, i was thinking to myself, i hope us looses, their display of effort, they dont deserve to move forward.
a buddy of mine has 2 kids that went to a us national camp a while back, u14 & u18, practiced @ the same location. after the 1st day he asked his kids what they both worked on u14 was building out the back, while u18 was instructed to get the ball in the attacking 3rd within 3 touches. So here you have a us nat team training camp with numerous age groups & they are all teaching different philosophies...wtf. same thing happened the next few days....sad.
BA is just the tip of the iceberg, we need to clean house & establish / identify a style & stick to it.
Plan your work, then work your plan. keep it simple.
it was great that BA resigned, now the rest of marrionetist's need to leave the top side of us soccer.
not sure who should take control of the ship, but I would like to have landon donavan in the cabin helping direct things. we need people in place who can stay with the project for 12-16 years, to see things to fruition.
in my eye's, us doesnt possess a "style".... let alone the ability to consistently connect a pass to their teammate. some will say, yeah - long ball-mls, thug ball, etc. when you have players that cant string several passes together or the players are thinking his teammate is going to thump the ball up the field & turns away, when a ball is actually passed to him, it's a joke, there is pure confusion out on the field.
I was embarrassed for the us before the TnT game, when the usmnt were being carried onto the field looking like a bunch of pansies. so sad. not to mention the lack of pride or respect to be playing for the national team, let alone personal pride. Before the 1st TnT goal, i was thinking to myself, i hope us looses, their display of effort, they dont deserve to move forward.
a buddy of mine has 2 kids that went to a us national camp a while back, u14 & u18, practiced @ the same location. after the 1st day he asked his kids what they both worked on u14 was building out the back, while u18 was instructed to get the ball in the attacking 3rd within 3 touches. So here you have a us nat team training camp with numerous age groups & they are all teaching different philosophies...wtf. same thing happened the next few days....sad.
BA is just the tip of the iceberg, we need to clean house & establish / identify a style & stick to it.
Plan your work, then work your plan. keep it simple.
Kicknit22
GOLD
Lack of intelligent play is always hard to watch.
BarcaLover
SILVER
I know it wouldn't happen in a million years because USSF frowns on him, but I would love to see what Brian Kleiban could do as manager of the USMNT.
Keepermom2
GOLD
Thanks for sharing this article. IMO, here in the US the teaching of "Winning doesn't matter" is much bigger than soccer and is a lifestyle we are teaching our kids that permeates throughout all facets of life and is what "They" have told us needs to be done. We are paying for that everywhere. I worked for a Big 4 Accounting Firm (that hires the best and the brightest requiring a 3.5 GPA or above...I however snuck in) and last year they did away with the ranking system by group where a 22 year old professional would be ranked against their peers and annual raises would be given based on that ranking (i.e. highest ranking received highest raise.) That practice had been done for decades. They learned that THIS GENERATION IS NOT MOTIVATED BY COMPETITION and that the ranking system did more harm than good and these professionals expected reward after 3 months of work. The studies have shown that these kids are not brought up to think for themselves, plan, or even do things for themselves. I just dropped my daughter off at sophomore registration a couple of months ago and she told me she was one of the only ones that didn't have a parent at the registration. Is she not capable of following the signs and asking questions? In the US we aren't teaching our kids to believe in their own ability, to take risks, and their own decision making in all facets of life so I believe that plays a role in how our soccer players play the game too. Our kids here in the US also have every technology known to man. When my daughter is grounded from technology she asks me to practice with her (she is a Keeper so she needs someone) or just this last weekend she asked me to go watch Socal Blues play San Diego Surf at her age level. She would have NEVER done that if she wasn't grounded. I think the fact that we are a society of mother hovers that don't teach our kids to be individuals that think and do for themselves taking appropriate risks also plays a role in how our players are developed as a nation. They are taught "Winning doesn't matter" but at some point it does. My daughter asked me about playoffs and I told her that for her age there isn't going to be playoffs because "They" believe winning doesn't matter for her age. She then said; "Yeah it does! Why am I doing this if it doesn't matter?!". LOL
Slow Jamin
BRONZE
It is pathetic that Sunil refuses to resign while USSF hasn't shown him the door yet and/or reassigned his role. Bruce eventually did the right thing. It shouldn't take this long..
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article
Slow Jamin
BRONZE
This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.
We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.
SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.
Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.
SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.
SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".
SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.
There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.
So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy.
Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally.
Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.
We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.
SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.
Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.
SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.
SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".
SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.
There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.
So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy.
Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally.
Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)
McKennie and Pulisic both made the first team in the Bundesliga after only a year with their clubs. Very impressive results. Schalke has a number of top Americans. A ton of talent is being pulled from the DA teams into Germany. Unless our pro league changes, we won't be able to keep kids in the US once they grow beyond the talent of our DA system.
younothat
PREMIER
The US Men's National Team and the FC Dallas Academy Problem
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/so...-mens-national-team-fc-dallas-academy-problem
You may have asked, "what exactly is pay-for-play and why is it bad for the USMNT?"
"Let's look at FC Dallas for example. They currently have about 5000 kids in the FC Dallas Youth system, both boys and girls. According to people we've talked to, on a rough average they each pay $3000 per year for the club fee (again before kit and travel expenses). That's $15 million in revenue for FC Dallas.
Now there are a lot of expenses and overhead FCD is paying, but a lot of those are sunk costs FCD (and Frisco?) paid up front. Sunk costs like building the complex at the stadium. Make no mistake FC Dallas is making a profit off their youth club. Since the senior club breaks even at best, and probably losses money some years, the youth profit is potentially FCD's only profit.
Soccer in the US is a roughly $4 billion industry but most of the profit, outside of the gear and equipment companies, is in the massive clubs. There is a lot of money at stake and they won't want to give it up
Why is Pay-For-Play a problem for the US Men's National Team?
The problem as it relates to the National Team is that pay-for-play creates a barrier to entry for kids. Effectively, only kids whose families can afford it can play soccer. Particularly high level elite soccer which is even more expensive. You can easily see how this limits the pool of players to only kids with money"
The second problem the pay-for-play system creates is the emphasis it places on volume. If clubs revenue is tied to player fees then profit is based on the number of players the club has. The more players, the more volume, and the more profit.
Instead of putting efforts into creating the best players and teams, a.k.a quality, the incentive for clubs is to add as many teams and players as possible with no regard for the quality of said teams and players, a.k.a quantity.
You can see this in FC Dallas' 5000 kids on teams stretching from Arkansas to El Paso.
The FCD Academy is free-to-play as the academy teams are subsidized and paid for by all the youth team fees. FCD needs pay-for-play for the FCD Academy teams to exist and function. The youth clubs prop up the whole FCD system.
Side note: Most academy teams aren't free, not even all the MLS academy teams are free.
The actual problem for FCD isn't that how pay-for-play works, it's that pay-for-play is the system we have rather than one that compensates the club if a player moves to a professional team.
The solution then?
Look, I'm certainly no youth soccer expert. But it seems quite clear to me. Having incentive from profit to be based on quality and not quantity seems like a good idea.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/so...-mens-national-team-fc-dallas-academy-problem
You may have asked, "what exactly is pay-for-play and why is it bad for the USMNT?"
"Let's look at FC Dallas for example. They currently have about 5000 kids in the FC Dallas Youth system, both boys and girls. According to people we've talked to, on a rough average they each pay $3000 per year for the club fee (again before kit and travel expenses). That's $15 million in revenue for FC Dallas.
Now there are a lot of expenses and overhead FCD is paying, but a lot of those are sunk costs FCD (and Frisco?) paid up front. Sunk costs like building the complex at the stadium. Make no mistake FC Dallas is making a profit off their youth club. Since the senior club breaks even at best, and probably losses money some years, the youth profit is potentially FCD's only profit.
Soccer in the US is a roughly $4 billion industry but most of the profit, outside of the gear and equipment companies, is in the massive clubs. There is a lot of money at stake and they won't want to give it up
Why is Pay-For-Play a problem for the US Men's National Team?
The problem as it relates to the National Team is that pay-for-play creates a barrier to entry for kids. Effectively, only kids whose families can afford it can play soccer. Particularly high level elite soccer which is even more expensive. You can easily see how this limits the pool of players to only kids with money"
The second problem the pay-for-play system creates is the emphasis it places on volume. If clubs revenue is tied to player fees then profit is based on the number of players the club has. The more players, the more volume, and the more profit.
Instead of putting efforts into creating the best players and teams, a.k.a quality, the incentive for clubs is to add as many teams and players as possible with no regard for the quality of said teams and players, a.k.a quantity.
You can see this in FC Dallas' 5000 kids on teams stretching from Arkansas to El Paso.
The FCD Academy is free-to-play as the academy teams are subsidized and paid for by all the youth team fees. FCD needs pay-for-play for the FCD Academy teams to exist and function. The youth clubs prop up the whole FCD system.
Side note: Most academy teams aren't free, not even all the MLS academy teams are free.
The actual problem for FCD isn't that how pay-for-play works, it's that pay-for-play is the system we have rather than one that compensates the club if a player moves to a professional team.
The solution then?
Look, I'm certainly no youth soccer expert. But it seems quite clear to me. Having incentive from profit to be based on quality and not quantity seems like a good idea.
