Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[dk_b]

Unless one believes the numbers of non-binary/trans youth will explode or that adolescent boys will suddenly fake being trans in order to dominate on the field, the issue won’t change much in terms of numbers. It might change in terms of our understanding of what it means to be trans and/or our tolerance/intolerance and/or our views on inclusion.

 

[dad4]

Unless one believes the numbers of non-binary/trans youth will explode or that adolescent boys will suddenly fake being trans in order to dominate on the field, the issue won’t change much in terms of numbers. It might change in terms of our understanding of what it means to be trans and/or our tolerance/intolerance and/or our views on inclusion.

I think the numbers are small mostly because it is not socially acceptable. No one wants to be the next Lia Thomas.

Take away the social norms, and I don't see any reason the numbers would stay small.

 

[GLangevinito]

In the end, everything always come down to money.

(if you separate into a third league, BTW, the girl still loses her scholarship, because the reality is also the transitioning FTM and MTFs can't compete with a cis male full blown actively on testosterone).

Yeah, money, and opportunities. The only solution you've offered is "Sucks for you" to girls.

 

[Grace T.]

Yeah, money, and opportunities. The only solution you've offered is "Sucks for you" to girls.

That’s a bad faith lie and you know it. At the youth level I’ve said it doesn’t matter because we don’t test for cheaters. Want it to matter? Screen (both the boys and girls). And while you’re at it set up a true women’s elite academy level, not ecnl kiddie ball everyone is always complain about.

at the college level I said there has to be a balancing act. Where that line is drawn has to be scientific. If we can’t scientifically draw that line set up a separate league and some girls and boys will have to give up their scholarships (since they won’t take it from football the boy soccer players will be hit hardest…that is unless women’s football takes off: because if so your scholarships will be cut by 1/4-1/6 anyway before you even get to the transgendered).

 

[dad4]

That’s a bad faith lie and you know it. At the youth level I’ve said it doesn’t matter because we don’t test for cheaters. Want it to matter? Screen (both the boys and girls). And while you’re at it set up a true women’s elite academy level, not ecnl kiddie ball everyone is always complain about.

at the college level I said there has to be a balancing act. Where that line is drawn has to be scientific. If we can’t scientifically draw that line set up a separate league and some girls and boys will have to give up their scholarships (since they won’t take it from football the boy soccer players will be hit hardest…that is unless women’s football takes off: because if so your scholarships will be cut by 1/4-1/6 anyway before you even get to the transgendered).

If you want to compare to PED use....

The policy for PED is that PED are not allowed in girls youth soccer, but we mostly don't test.

Are you suggesting that we should adopt exactly that policy for mtf trans athletes in post-puberty girls events? Not allowed, but minimal enforcement?

It would be reasonable.

 

[crush]

Dom, I think this is real news but not 100%.

 

[Grace T.]

If you want to compare to PED use....

The policy for PED is that PED are not allowed in girls youth soccer, but we mostly don't test.

Are you suggesting that we should adopt exactly that policy for mtf trans athletes in post-puberty girls events? Not allowed, but minimal enforcement?

It would be reasonable.

I would characterize it that we turn a blind eye to it because there is not even minimum enforcement. It would it would at least be logically consistent (which has been my prime objection to both extremists: before you argue pro or con any position you have to be logically consistent…you’ll recall from our Covid debates I can’t stand hypocrisy). Turning a blind eye in this case would be a birth certificate test (prevents the canard of some boy just declaring himself a girl and going on living his life unaltered which was never a real concern anyways).

 

[kickingandscreaming]

The only solution you've offered is "Sucks for you" to girls.

The angry, talking point troll is the one that does that. The name will change again soon, but they are all the same.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

And while you’re at it set up a true women’s elite academy level, not ecnl kiddie ball everyone is always complain about.

at the college level I said there has to be a balancing act. Where that line is drawn has to be scientific. If we can’t scientifically draw that line set up a separate league and some girls and boys will have to give up their scholarships (since they won’t take it from football the boy soccer players will be hit hardest…that is unless women’s football takes off: because if so your scholarships will be cut by 1/4-1/6 anyway before you even get to the transgendered).

To enforce any of this, testing will need to be done on everyone - at least in states that allow you to change your gender on your birth certificate or states that are so scientifically advanced they cannot distinguish between a male or female at birth. It will need to be done before any scholarship is offered, with prospective coaches wanting it sooner to verify the child is eligible to play their sport. Interesting times.

 

[crush]

To enforce any of this, testing will need to be done on everyone - at least in states that allow you to change your gender on your birth certificate or states that are so scientifically advanced they cannot distinguish between a male or female at birth. It will need to be done before any scholarship is offered, with prospective coaches wanting it sooner to verify the child is eligible to play their sport. Interesting times.

It sure is a trip brother. I told you long ago that the WOMAN (Mother Earth or Ancient Mother) will be restored to her rightful place on earth, which is equal rights and being treated fair by the men. Man has brute physical strength to control a woman and make her submit to his rules. Woman have the 'POP." It's time to work together. Rule #1. No man with a "peter" can call himself female to play sports against the females. If 18 year males gets rid of his peter then the rules committee can hear the case. Weight and height 100% will also go into the decision process. I'm open to this way but not the Lia way, no way.

 

[SurFutbol]

The angry, talking point troll is the one that does that. The name will change again soon, but they are all the same.

Angry transphobe is upset that he can't have things his way. No matter how much you keep whining, ECNL, CIF, the NCAA, the NWSL and the Olympics all agree with me. Unlike you and your transphobic friends, we actually have solutions that have been implemented for years. All you have is hate and apparent self-pity that your daughter isn't good enough at soccer to compete against a team that might have a trans girl.

 

[Maximus09]

Even discussing it generally makes it hard on these children. All they want is to lead a normal life, but haters seem to think what they are really doing is trying to find a way to get a hand up in life to ruin someone else's athletic dreams. lol, yeah, that's the first thing on a 10-year old's mind: how can I ruin some one else's dreams of playing in college?

I think that argument from the "haters" was about professional athletes. With the younger athletes, there is clearly an unfair advantage. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...dge-after-year-hormone-therapy-study-n1252764

 

[SurFutbol]

I think that argument from the "haters" was about professional athletes. With the younger athletes, there is clearly an unfair advantage. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...dge-after-year-hormone-therapy-study-n1252764

If you understood what "unfair" means, you would also understand that with younger athletes there is clearly an unfair advantage for biological girls who don't have to worry about being mocked and humiliated every day of their lives due to their gender identity. Or are you saying that the results of a U12 girls soccer game are so important to the fabric of society that we really need to continue fostering a social environment that treats trans children horribly?

 

[GLangevinito]

If you understood what "unfair" means, you would also understand that with younger athletes there is clearly an unfair advantage for biological girls who don't have to worry about being mocked and humiliated every day of their lives due to their gender identity. Or are you saying that the results of a U12 girls soccer game are so important to the fabric of society that we really need to continue fostering a social environment that treats trans children horribly?

Your arguments are: 1) Trans girls have to endure mocking and humiliation so we should just let them keep their athletic advantage, and 2) We should overlook fairness because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.

1) Irrelevant to the issue of fairness on the field.
2) Disagree. You could use the same argument to argue against age separation. Why shouldn't a U18 play U12 if they want to?

 

[crush]

Your arguments are: 1) Trans girls have to endure mocking and humiliation so we should just let them keep their athletic advantage, and 2) We should overlook fairness because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.

1) Irrelevant to the issue of fairness on the field.
2) Disagree. You could use the same argument to argue against age separation. Why shouldn't a U18 play U12 if they want to?

Ya, and if that 12 year old dd isn't good enough to keep her roster spot from 18 year old, she's not good enough anyways.

 

[Maximus09]

If you understood what "unfair" means, you would also understand that with younger athletes there is clearly an unfair advantage for biological girls who don't have to worry about being mocked and humiliated every day of their lives due to their gender identity. Or are you saying that the results of a U12 girls soccer game are so important to the fabric of society that we really need to continue fostering a social environment that treats trans children horribly?

Your arguments are: 1) Trans girls have to endure mocking and humiliation so we should just let them keep their athletic advantage, and 2) We should overlook fairness because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.

1) Irrelevant to the issue of fairness on the field.
2) Disagree. You could use the same argument to argue against age separation. Why shouldn't a U18 play U12 if they want to?

Good response

 

[SurFutbol]

Your arguments are: 1) Trans girls have to endure mocking and humiliation so we should just let them keep their athletic advantage, and 2) We should overlook fairness because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter much.

1) Irrelevant to the issue of fairness on the field.
2) Disagree. You could use the same argument to argue against age separation. Why shouldn't a U18 play U12 if they want to?

1. No, society's interests in terms of what is and isn't fair in life cannot be limited or ignored by drawing chalk lines around a patch of grass and proclaiming that only those things that you want to happen inside them can be used to determine what is and isn't fair. In reality, there is nothing that makes the "sanctity" of a children's game so important that it justifies ignoring every single societal interest that supports letting trans kid play. In reality, you are just using the term "fairness" because that sounds better than what you really mean, which is "ignoring every societal interest that conflicts with my hatred of trans children and my fear that my daughter may never win a trophy."

2. Uh, this is exactly why most state HS federations allow 17-year old HS juniors to play JV against 13-year old freshmen. It is why I've seen a league allow a new high school with mostly freshman and only a handful of sophomores field a varsity soccer team and regularly get their ass kicked by 18 year olds. It's why 13 year old freshmen regularly compete in varsity sports. It's the reason one of my kids was often "deprived" of medals in 5k growing up because he had to compete in U18 age groups. Leagues allow things like this to happen because they recognize that society's overall interest in developing adults who don't grow up to be transphobic shitbag whiners is more important than who wins or loses a stupid child's game.

Do you know what is actually fair? Leagues making participation decisions based on all relevant societal interests, rather than just your transphobic ones.

 

[SurFutbol]

Good response

Care to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV against a team of 13 year olds despite a four year physical, emotional and intellectual advantage, yet world is going to end if the league lets a 13 year trans girl play, even if she's playing varsity against mostly 18 year olds? Is it because winning and losing isn't important so long as everyone is the same birth gender, but "the sanctity of sports" suddenly becomes your best excuse to avoid having to admit that your real reason is that you hate trans children?

 

[SurFutbol]

This is just another version of Grace's and SurFutbol's main argument: it's not a problem yet so why are we discussing it?

It's mostly a theoretical problem as of today. But it's something all youth sports will have to deal with, and like it or not, there are only so many spots on elite teams. There are only so many scholarships per team. Starting at puberty, and widening every year, is an athleticism gap between boys and girls. If we take the hypothetical that a 17 boy begins to transition to a woman, and is good enough to play on a top girls team - who loses their spot? Who loses playtime? Who loses a potential scholarship?

Maybe SF is right and it just sucks for the girl who loses out, but we tell her to make that sacrifice in the name of inclusivity. I don't know.

When you say "it's not a problem yet", you are obviously wrong. The abysmal treatment of trans children has always been a problem. Why is it that you ignore the existing actual problem and focus on fake theoretical ones? I'll tell you. It is because you are part of the cause of the actual problem, and this is the only way you have to distract from that fact and disclaim responsibility for your transphobia. But go ahead and use the "sanctity" of kiddie soccer as an excuse to continue treating trans children poorly. Go ahead and continue trying to define "fair" as what only what you think best benefits transphobic dads with daughters who are terrible soccer players. CIF, ECNL and the NCAA aren't buying your bs for a second.

 

[dad4]

Care to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for a 17 year old HS junior to play JV against a team of 13 year olds despite a four year physical, emotional and intellectual advantage, yet world is going to end if the league lets a 13 year trans girl play, even if she's playing varsity against mostly 18 year olds? Is it because winning and losing isn't important so long as everyone is the same birth gender, but "the sanctity of sports" suddenly becomes your best excuse to avoid having to admit that your real reason is that you hate trans children?

Interesting that you should mention 13 year olds playing against 17-18 year olds.

For sprint times, that’s roughly the same difference as between a man and a woman. About 10% faster. Enough to decide the winner in almost any foot race.

Care to address the issue, or do you just want to call everyone transphobe ten more times?