Surf Players Being Discouraged from playing HS?

Of course. Even Pep can't just walk into Norwich City and immediately start beating Liverpool and Chelsea. It takes better, more committed players. Obviously this season is still reflective of the state of the previous club, and future seasons will reflect any changes MW has been able to execute. It starts with the coaching staff, which if the rumors are true, we'll see some new faces wearing Sharks coach kits in the not too distant future. Then it's attracting better players, which I personally think will happen, first through recruiting then organically. The hard part will be getting those parents who are too fixated on results to buy in and see the forest through the trees.

In the end, I see Sharks teams improving competitively across the board in the seasons ahead of us, which is what Surf wants right? Better competition for their teams week in an week out? Or do they want to continue to flex their weekend results against Rebels and Sharks on their Instagram account? Naw .. they couldn't want that. :rolleyes:
Surf’s rivals are not Sharks or Rebels. Surf’s rivals are Solar, Colorado Rapids, KC Athletics, and LAFC Koge. They judge themselves against those teams. Yes, Surf does want better competition from Sharks…and they are already getting that from Rebels.
 
Question...what does Surf offer their teams during winter break to entice girls not to play HS? Is it just extra training/practices?
Top level soccer in Socal is year round for most clubs. In "winter" after league theres Tournamnets both field and futsal for players to participate in. Practice sessions are generally year round.

This is why the top colleges recruit from Socal. High level talent is/are amazing. Even not as high level talent is really really good. Also, players have been through the club meat grinder + typically understand what's expected when a coach recruits you.
 
Question...what does Surf offer their teams during winter break to entice girls not to play HS? Is it just extra training/practices?
1. FOMO
2. Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
Curious to see how this all works out…
 
1. FOMO
2. Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
Curious to see how this all works out…
So sad to do this to incoming freshman girls. My dd chose HSS 4 years ago and is so glad she did. Threats were real though and getting blacklisted by the powerful is real.
 
1. FOMO
2. Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
Curious to see how this all works out…
The threats aren't veiled. And apparently too many girls had FOMO as he only wanted 18 so they will force some out of the winter training to get to 18.
 
I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)

Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this. Is this typical or widespread?
 
I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)

Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this. Is this typical or widespread?

If you have solid evidence, inform the school's AD and Principal. The coach should be sacked.
 
I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)

Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this. Is this typical or widespread?
Yikes!!! I can see all the interest in the conflicts of interest and the use of power over one's head would be horrible if true. You really think a coach would demand a player quit their club family team and play for his club team and hss team to insure all goes well? If this is true, then this takes pay to play to a whole new level I have never ever heard of.
 
1. FOMO
2. Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
Curious to see how this all works out…

I love this talk about Deza by people who have no idea what they're talking about. For the record, Deza never kicked a kid off his club for playing HS although he has encouraged their exit for lack of commitment combined with lack of sufficient ability. Even when US Soccer kicked his Quakes players out of GDA, he assured them he'd find a way to work around it, and he did. In fact, his going rogue on US Soccer by supporting his HS players contributed greatly to the demise of GDA. Deza will absolutely support his players in college recruiting even if they play HS, just as he always has. But it comes with caveats, because there are always consequences to decisions. He will be candid with your kid about those consequences, but don't confuse honesty with "threats" just because you don't want to hear the truth.

Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is. Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids. From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

Regardless, if your kid can really play, Deza isn't going to kick then out. They run the risk of reduced playing time or being moved to a lower team because another kid may come along while your kid is gone or an existing one improves to the point that they pass your kid. Playing time may suffer for a while because his job is to get kids recruited, and he's going to make a priority of those who show that getting recruited is a priority to them. Anyone who thinks being told these truths is a "threat" is just a typical stupid soccer parent who refuses to accept that there are consequences for decisions. They also probably refuse to accept that their kid just isn't good enough to guarantee that they can miss three months of club without getting passed up. If you want your kid to play HS and continue starting ECNL at Surf, they need to be really good. If they aren't, they take their chances. That is how life works.

Oh, and Deza has never wanted a small roster in his life. Maybe he can bring only 18 to a game, but claiming that he only wants 18 kids to train is just a lie.
 
Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is. Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids. From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.
The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all? Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?
 
Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years

Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?
 
The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all? Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?

Has something changed in the past few years? ECNL always allowed clubs/regions to break for HS. That break is different depending on the state (about 5 or 6 for Winter HSS and then split about evenly among the other states between Fall and Spring)? My daughter's club always participated in the Nov and April PHX showcases and then the PDA showcase over Memorial Day Weekend, breaking for HS between about Nov 20 or so and then when the HS season ends. The rate of HS participating among Northern California ECNL players was always really high and because CIF does not permit both, it was not b/c of ECNL but CIF that they shut down for that stretch.
 
The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all? Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?

ECNL is not in conflict with HS generally. Not all HS seasons line up nationally, often due to weather. ECNL provides a lot of showcase options and league scheduling flexibility to work around different HS seasons, minimize the risk of weather problems at showcases, address other geographic challenges depending on where the club and league is located, and to account for the different priorities at different clubs.

The "problem" is that not all ECNL clubs have the same goals and priorities, nor should they. One of Deza's main goals is to get kids recruited for college and HS tends to get in the way of it. Participating at a showcase in front of 50 college coaches per game is a big deal. When kids miss it because they're playing HS, it hurts their ability to get recruited, and it also hurts the ability of those who are there if the team is missing a lot of its regular players. That is how it is. Some ECNL clubs don't care so much. Some do. Some ECNL clubs can't afford to send teams all over the place all the time to get seen, while others can.
 
I love this talk about Deza by people who have no idea what they're talking about. For the record, Deza never kicked a kid off his club for playing HS although he has encouraged their exit for lack of commitment combined with lack of sufficient ability. Even when US Soccer kicked his Quakes players out of GDA, he assured them he'd find a way to work around it, and he did. In fact, his going rogue on US Soccer by supporting his HS players contributed greatly to the demise of GDA. Deza will absolutely support his players in college recruiting even if they play HS, just as he always has. But it comes with caveats, because there are always consequences to decisions. He will be candid with your kid about those consequences, but don't confuse honesty with "threats" just because you don't want to hear the truth.

Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is. Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids. From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

Regardless, if your kid can really play, Deza isn't going to kick then out. They run the risk of reduced playing time or being moved to a lower team because another kid may come along while your kid is gone or an existing one improves to the point that they pass your kid. Playing time may suffer for a while because his job is to get kids recruited, and he's going to make a priority of those who show that getting recruited is a priority to them. Anyone who thinks being told these truths is a "threat" is just a typical stupid soccer parent who refuses to accept that there are consequences for decisions. They also probably refuse to accept that their kid just isn't good enough to guarantee that they can miss three months of club without getting passed up. If you want your kid to play HS and continue starting ECNL at Surf, they need to be really good. If they aren't, they take their chances. That is how life works.

Oh, and Deza has never wanted a small roster in his life. Maybe he can bring only 18 to a game, but claiming that he only wants 18 kids to train is just a lie.
Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong. But go ahead and keep defending him. The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.
 
Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years

Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?

If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.
 
If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.


ok, I see that. If we are saying the refs are the problem in letting these games get out of hand then that makes sense.

Are colleges putting any restrictions on where the players play when they are in the offseason?. Do some of them want/require their girls running their camps in the summer time.
 
If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.

I'd really be interested in seeing data on this. It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time). My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.

I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?

Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).

In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer. It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.
 
Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong. But go ahead and keep defending him. The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.

Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.
 
ECNL is not in conflict with HS generally. Not all HS seasons line up nationally, often due to weather. ECNL provides a lot of showcase options and league scheduling flexibility to work around different HS seasons, minimize the risk of weather problems at showcases, address other geographic challenges depending on where the club and league is located, and to account for the different priorities at different clubs.

The "problem" is that not all ECNL clubs have the same goals and priorities, nor should they. One of Deza's main goals is to get kids recruited for college and HS tends to get in the way of it. Participating at a showcase in front of 50 college coaches per game is a big deal. When kids miss it because they're playing HS, it hurts their ability to get recruited, and it also hurts the ability of those who are there if the team is missing a lot of its regular players. That is how it is. Some ECNL clubs don't care so much. Some do. Some ECNL clubs can't afford to send teams all over the place all the time to get seen, while others can.
I still don't understand how HS gets in the way of recruiting kids for college? What showcase is scheduled during HSS that has 50 college coaches? Is it just this one showcase they are missing?
 
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