Surf Players Being Discouraged from playing HS?

GoldenGate said:
I love this talk about Deza by people who have no idea what they're talking about. For the record, Deza never kicked a kid off his club for playing HS although he has encouraged their exit for lack of commitment combined with lack of sufficient ability. Even when US Soccer kicked his Quakes players out of GDA, he assured them he'd find a way to work around it, and he did. In fact, his going rogue on US Soccer by supporting his HS players contributed greatly to the demise of GDA. Deza will absolutely support his players in college recruiting even if they play HS, just as he always has. But it comes with caveats, because there are always consequences to decisions. He will be candid with your kid about those consequences, but don't confuse honesty with "threats" just because you don't want to hear the truth.

Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is. Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids. From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

Regardless, if your kid can really play, Deza isn't going to kick then out. They run the risk of reduced playing time or being moved to a lower team because another kid may come along while your kid is gone or an existing one improves to the point that they pass your kid. Playing time may suffer for a while because his job is to get kids recruited, and he's going to make a priority of those who show that getting recruited is a priority to them. Anyone who thinks being told these truths is a "threat" is just a typical stupid soccer parent who refuses to accept that there are consequences for decisions. They also probably refuse to accept that their kid just isn't good enough to guarantee that they can miss three months of club without getting passed up. If you want your kid to play HS and continue starting ECNL at Surf, they need to be really good. If they aren't, they take their chances. That is how life works.

Oh, and Deza has never wanted a small roster in his life. Maybe he can bring only 18 to a game, but claiming that he only wants 18 kids to train is just a lie.
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Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong. But go ahead and keep defending him. The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.
 
Brav520 said:
Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years

Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?
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If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.
 
GoldenGate said:
If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.
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ok, I see that. If we are saying the refs are the problem in letting these games get out of hand then that makes sense.

Are colleges putting any restrictions on where the players play when they are in the offseason?. Do some of them want/require their girls running their camps in the summer time.
 
GoldenGate said:
If you play for Deza, then yes. He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes. With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer. When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal. Take responsibility for your kid. There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club. It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question. You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated. You also need to be answering that question yourself. Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive. But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.
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I'd really be interested in seeing data on this. It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time). My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.

I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?

Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).

In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer. It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.
 
MyDaughtersAKeeper said:
Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong. But go ahead and keep defending him. The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.
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Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.
 
GoldenGate said:
ECNL is not in conflict with HS generally. Not all HS seasons line up nationally, often due to weather. ECNL provides a lot of showcase options and league scheduling flexibility to work around different HS seasons, minimize the risk of weather problems at showcases, address other geographic challenges depending on where the club and league is located, and to account for the different priorities at different clubs.

The "problem" is that not all ECNL clubs have the same goals and priorities, nor should they. One of Deza's main goals is to get kids recruited for college and HS tends to get in the way of it. Participating at a showcase in front of 50 college coaches per game is a big deal. When kids miss it because they're playing HS, it hurts their ability to get recruited, and it also hurts the ability of those who are there if the team is missing a lot of its regular players. That is how it is. Some ECNL clubs don't care so much. Some do. Some ECNL clubs can't afford to send teams all over the place all the time to get seen, while others can.
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I still don't understand how HS gets in the way of recruiting kids for college? What showcase is scheduled during HSS that has 50 college coaches? Is it just this one showcase they are missing?
 
GoldenGate said:
Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.
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It is funny because I am anything but a helicopter parent. You continue to prove you are an asshole.
 
dk_b said:
I'd really be interested in seeing data on this. It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time). My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.

I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?

Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).

In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer. It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.
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common characteristic among high level coaches in any sport is to be a control freak , it’s probably beneficial in most circumstances

seems to me what the DOCs really hate is losing control over their players for a couple of months , then spending the first month when they have them back on having to bring them up to speed
 
Brav520 said:
common characteristic among high level coaches in any sport is to be a control freak , it’s probably beneficial in most circumstances

seems to me what the DOCs really hate is losing control over their players for a couple of months , then spending the first month when they have them back on having to bring them up to speed
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I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality. A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player. If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.
 
dk_b said:
I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality. A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player. If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.
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Yep, you can leave a sport and get back in pretty quickly, but they don't want you to believe that because it lowers their value and business proposition. They want you to believe that year round specialization is the only way, or you will be left behind. It's really about the DOC's losing control and $$ and keeping up the pressure and fear that their business model is based on.
 
Brav520 said:
Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years

Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?
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How would anyone get evidence? Is there any club which publishes their injury history?

To get real data, you’d need ECNL and schools to publish annual statistics on a league wide basis.
 
dk_b said:
I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality. A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player. If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.
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Doc(s) are not happy with HSS, especially if Doc is from another country. My dd learned the hard way but the right way.
 
BIGD said:
Yep, you can leave a sport and get back in pretty quickly, but they don't want you to believe that because it lowers their value and business proposition. They want you to believe that year round specialization is the only way, or you will be left behind. It's really about the DOC's losing control and $$ and keeping up the pressure and fear that their business model is based on.
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I feel very fortunate that my kid played at a club where it was accepted that players played HS. It has never had a negative impact on the teams. Because a former GDA club is closer to us, if GDA had allowed HS, I expect that she would have moved closer to limit her commute burden but it was never a serious consideration for her b/c she would not have wanted to give up HS.
 
dk_b said:
I'd really be interested in seeing data on this. It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time). My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.

I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?

Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).

In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer. It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.
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Yes, it's a problem if your kid plays 3 full 90 minute ECNL games in three days, but it's the parents fault because they let it happen, just as they're a shitty parent to let their kid play full HS games plus OT. Speaking generally, however, a kid is much more likely to have a shitty HS coach who doesn't understand or care about how to mitigate injury risks than an ECNL coach. But, again, that is not always the case and depends on your situation. Deza for sure will not ride your kid too hard physically.

Whether HS is the best decision always depends on the situation, and anyone who claims they know what is best for everyone is just an idiot. My kid played HS soccer and loved it. Many of her teammates didn't, and are glad. Mine was lucky because her HS coach was a good guy who understood health was more important than winning, we were on the same page and it all worked out. If he had tried to ride her hard to win games, however, it would have been different. She also essentially committed as a HS freshman, so she didn't have to worry about missing recruiting opportunities playing HS, getting booted from her club team, or getting hurt badly and not being able to leverage her soccer ability into college opportunity. She had all the power, and we used it to flip US Soccer the bird with its GDA HS ban. But with today's NCAA recruiting rules prohibiting contact and visits until much later, there is more pressure on kids to skip HS, which gives clubs more leverage and parents less. If my kid had been a marginal D1 prospect instead of an elite one under today's recruiting rules, missing out on high level training and ECNL showcases in front of college scouts would have been a bigger deal and she probably would have skipped HS just to be safe. As an aside, it's funny seeing idiots like crush proclaim their love for the NCAA rule change not realizing that it only took power out of his hands and gave it to the club coaches and DOCs he hates so much.

It is also important to understand that, when Deza discourages HS, he's only trying to help your child, although the idiotic parents here fail to comprehend this. Maybe it isn't what is best for one's kid in the end, but he isn't trying to be malicious or a "control freak", it's not a "power grab" or "money grab", and he isn't "threatening" you. He is trying to get your kid and all of her teammates the most and best exposure to colleges and the best training which, in turn, provides these kids with the best possible college opportunities. Those who are upset at clubs for discouraging HS will never admit it to even themselves, but they're really just upset their daughter's teammates are going to get recruited while they're gone and they don't want it to happen without them. If their kid isn't going to take advantage of getting recruited for three months, they don't want anyone else to be able to do so either even if they want to. It's a pretty fucked up to not want what is best for your kid's teammates and the parents you sit next to 9 months a year, but that's what is really going on. But the truth is colleges are going to continue recruiting even while their kid plays HS, ECNL is going to continue holding showcases to facilitate recruiting, and a lot of kids and clubs like Surf are going to take advantage of it, as they should. If you don't want that golden recruiting opportunity, ok, but that's the price you pay. Just accept reality and wish your kid's teammates the best, even if it means they get that final offer from Stanford or USC while your kid was away.
 
GoldenGate said:
Yes, it's a problem if your kid plays 3 full 90 minute ECNL games in three days, but it's the parents fault because they let it happen, just as they're a shitty parent to let their kid play full HS games plus OT. Speaking generally, however, a kid is much more likely to have a shitty HS coach who doesn't understand or care about how to mitigate injury risks than an ECNL coach. But, again, that is not always the case and depends on your situation. Deza for sure will not ride your kid too hard physically.

Whether HS is the best decision always depends on the situation, and anyone who claims they know what is best for everyone is just an idiot. My kid played HS soccer and loved it. Many of her teammates didn't, and are glad. Mine was lucky because her HS coach was a good guy who understood health was more important than winning, we were on the same page and it all worked out. If he had tried to ride her hard to win games, however, it would have been different. She also essentially committed as a HS freshman, so she didn't have to worry about missing recruiting opportunities playing HS, getting booted from her club team, or getting hurt badly and not being able to leverage her soccer ability into college opportunity. She had all the power, and we used it to flip US Soccer the bird with its GDA HS ban. But with today's NCAA recruiting rules prohibiting contact and visits until much later, there is more pressure on kids to skip HS, which gives clubs more leverage and parents less. If my kid had been a marginal D1 prospect instead of an elite one under today's recruiting rules, missing out on high level training and ECNL showcases in front of college scouts would have been a bigger deal and she probably would have skipped HS just to be safe. As an aside, it's funny seeing idiots like crush proclaim their love for the NCAA rule change not realizing that it only took power out of his hands and gave it to the club coaches and DOCs he hates so much.

It is also important to understand that, when Deza discourages HS, he's only trying to help your child, although the idiotic parents here fail to comprehend this. Maybe it isn't what is best for one's kid in the end, but he isn't trying to be malicious or a "control freak", it's not a "power grab" or "money grab", and he isn't "threatening" you. He is trying to get your kid and all of her teammates the most and best exposure to colleges and the best training which, in turn, provides these kids with the best possible college opportunities. Those who are upset at clubs for discouraging HS will never admit it to even themselves, but they're really just upset their daughter's teammates are going to get recruited while they're gone and they don't want it to happen without them. If their kid isn't going to take advantage of getting recruited for three months, they don't want anyone else to be able to do so either even if they want to. It's a pretty fucked up to not want what is best for your kid's teammates and the parents you sit next to 9 months a year, but that's what is really going on. But the truth is colleges are going to continue recruiting even while their kid plays HS, ECNL is going to continue holding showcases to facilitate recruiting, and a lot of kids and clubs like Surf are going to take advantage of it, as they should. If you don't want that golden recruiting opportunity, ok, but that's the price you pay. Just accept reality and wish your kid's teammates the best, even if it means they get that final offer from Stanford or USC while your kid was away.
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You will notice that my comments are about HS, generally, and not about Andres. I know him from his time up here and my daughter had the good fortune to participate in trainings with him (in the pre-GDA days). There are few coaches as committed to teaching soccer than he is - how many say "results don't matter" at the early ages when they are really about winning? Having watched my daughter play against his teams, he really did not care about results but taught excellent soccer (that even includes when DeAnza was ECNL and he was coaching 01/02s when they first moved into the ECNL level (obviously pre-age split)).

I am a fan of the current recruiting rule over the one that allowed my kid to commit as early as she did. I think her school remains the right one as she has finished her 2d season but I still think she was too young to commit when she did (she agrees with me, FWIW). We also felt, at the time and b/c of her position, she "needed" to commit early (that's a longer discussion that I would not share here). The ECNL showcase schedule accommodates the HS season and I have seen HS player after HS player commit to top programs. They have plenty of coaches watching them in the fall and spring and then at playoffs. The ones who don't get offers are not missing out b/c of HS but b/c they did not shine when the lights were brightest or were not as good as others thought them to be or just had the wrong flow of a game when their desired coaches were watching. If they are good enough for Stanford or USC or any of the biggies, they will be seen even if their team is not at X or Y showcase in the winter (of course ECNL is going to hold showcases during the winter b/c only 6 or so states play HS then; if they are in a state where HS is big and played in another season, they are not playing in the Fall or the Winter showcases; it all balances out).

Some public health student will do some research on comparative injury rates among HS and club players - they won't rely on clubs or high schools for that data but will go to the doctors or the patients themselves. And we will learn if HS is the bogeyman so many think it to be or just as risky or less risky than club.
 
BIGD said:
I still don't understand how HS gets in the way of recruiting kids for college? What showcase is scheduled during HSS that has 50 college coaches? Is it just this one showcase they are missing?
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Again, HS is different for different regions, but ECNL showcases occur throughout the year. There will almost always be an ECNL showcase that is during a particular region's HS season. It is not uncommon for ECNL showcases to have games with more than 50 colleges in attendance and mine played in many.
 
dk_b said:
You will notice that my comments are about HS, generally, and not about Andres. I know him from his time up here and my daughter had the good fortune to participate in trainings with him (in the pre-GDA days). There are few coaches as committed to teaching soccer than he is - how many say "results don't matter" at the early ages when they are really about winning? Having watched my daughter play against his teams, he really did not care about results but taught excellent soccer (that even includes when DeAnza was ECNL and he was coaching 01/02s when they first moved into the ECNL level (obviously pre-age split)).

I am a fan of the current recruiting rule over the one that allowed my kid to commit as early as she did. I think her school remains the right one as she has finished her 2d season but I still think she was too young to commit when she did (she agrees with me, FWIW). We also felt, at the time and b/c of her position, she "needed" to commit early (that's a longer discussion that I would not share here). The ECNL showcase schedule accommodates the HS season and I have seen HS player after HS player commit to top programs. They have plenty of coaches watching them in the fall and spring and then at playoffs. The ones who don't get offers are not missing out b/c of HS but b/c they did not shine when the lights were brightest or were not as good as others thought them to be or just had the wrong flow of a game when their desired coaches were watching. If they are good enough for Stanford or USC or any of the biggies, they will be seen even if their team is not at X or Y showcase in the winter (of course ECNL is going to hold showcases during the winter b/c only 6 or so states play HS then; if they are in a state where HS is big and played in another season, they are not playing in the Fall or the Winter showcases; it all balances out).

Some public health student will do some research on comparative injury rates among HS and club players - they won't rely on clubs or high schools for that data but will go to the doctors or the patients themselves. And we will learn if HS is the bogeyman so many think it to be or just as risky or less risky than club.
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In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world. My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead. She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that. Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them. They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.

You never know when or how your kid will get found. But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC. Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.
 
crush said:
Doc(s) are not happy with HSS, especially if Doc is from another country. My dd learned the hard way but the right way.
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The real problem is that you have not learned anything. You have done nothing but piss off everyone around you who tried to help you and your kid, including by repeatedly blaming them for your own horrible decisions.

Love the xenophobia btw.
 
GoldenGate said:
In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world. My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead. She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that. Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them. They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.

You never know when or how your kid will get found. But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC. Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.
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So you're saying that if a a player isn't in Showcases by Freshman/Sophomore year in HS that College coaches won't notice your kid. I find this hard to believe. Sure this is the age when coaches are looking but they'll be combing through ECNL rosters making notes on all players. If they see a name that's not playing from a top club they'll make an effort to figure out what's going on.
 
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