Surf Players Being Discouraged from playing HS?

[timmyh]

When the club was questioned as to the official Surf attitude towards HS soccer, the parents were told by the club that Surf is supportive of the HS soccer experience and knew that it was important to a large number of girls.

I think a club can both be supportive of the high school experience while also giving extra opportunity to those who decide to forego it in order better represent the club and support similarly-minded teammates. Those things don't seem mutually exclusive to me.

And it only seems wrong or unfair if it was not made clear up front and people were surprised by the (admittedly unusual) consequences of their decisions.

 

[timmyh]

I'll add, I assume there are several girls who took Deza at his word, weighed their options, and chose to forego high school soccer. Wouldn't it have been incredibly unfair to those girls if he was bluffing or if the club stepped in and "fixed" it?

 

[silverback]

Deza communicated his expectations seven months ago, clearly telling everyone he discouraged HS, playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get their child recruited, and kids ran the risk of getting passed over by other more committed kids. Go figure, that is exactly what happened.

Of course he isn't taking kids who played HS to the ECNL showcase. They inevitably picked up bad habits that takes more than a couple weeks to unlearn, their timing is way off with their teammates. It's hard and takes time to reincorporate kids into his system within a couple weeks when they've been gone playing boot ball for three months. Most kids come back from HS soccer banged up and worn out because they were often overworked on their HS teams, especially if they did well, which means an increased risk of injury at the showcase. He also needs to make decisions about who will and won't go weeks in advance because it isn't fair to lead kids on who were committed to his process and did what he asked, only to tell them never mind because your daughter who lacks the same level of commitment rolled in last week expecting all the benefits without any of the obligations, and pretending what he said seven months ago didn't happen. He also doesn't need kids who may not be ready to get back to playing his system screwing things up for the others who are trying to get recruited. In his opinion, its better to bring up a younger player whom he knows will make the right passes, be in the right positions, and do what he wants than the kid who just missed three months dribbling too much, passing too little, and whose timing is way off because she hasn't played with her teammates in months.

When you say he told kids he would not help them get recruited if they played HS, you are just lying. He did say it would get in the way of that, and that is exactly what happened. Those kids missed the ECNL showcase because they weren't as committed as the others, and he didn't want to have to deal with uncertainty about who would and wouldn't be ready to play when they came back from HS, or even when they would be back to start training again. If a kid chose HS, that was their decision and good for them, but claiming that a kid who played HS deserves a spot on the ECNL roster a few weeks after missing almost three months over kids who prioritized club over HS is just selfish clueless bs. And, honestly, the kids who played HS deserved punishment.

Life is about choices. He gave everyone options, he communicated to what would happen if they picked HS, and they chose HS over maximizing their kid's ability to get recruited for college. Why are you so mad? Why do you think a kid who was not as committed to club should get selected for the showcase over someone who was?

Bingo, hit the nail on the head

 

[Emma]

Knew you would chime in. 2 things - 1) didn't waste time reading your post. 2) - go f yourself.

Besides the kids deserving punishment, what Golden Gate said is mostly correct. No one should be punished for choosing high school and in this case, no one was punished. Many of the players did choose high school soccer, including some national team players.

It would not make sense to take the kids who played high school soccer to the Texas showcase and play against tough Texas teams. They haven't been practicing together for a few months. The younger kids that chose to continue with the program during winter break were rewarded with playing up on the 05 team. They did a great job.

The language was not threatening but honestly explaining what the hurdles of playing high school soccer would create. The communication gives parents and players all the information to make an informed decision.

I'm a big proponent of high school soccer but I didn't expect my child to play the Texas showcase because she did choose high school. It gave other players in the club an opportunity and I support those players too. They made a sacrifice and they earned the spot for the TX showcase.

 

[oh canada]

Besides the kids deserving punishment, what Golden Gate said is mostly correct. No one should be punished for choosing high school and in this case, no one was punished. Many of the players did choose high school soccer, including some national team players.

It would not make sense to take the kids who played high school soccer to the Texas showcase and play against tough Texas teams. They haven't been practicing together for a few months. The younger kids that chose to continue with the program during winter break were rewarded with playing up on the 05 team. They did a great job.

The language was not threatening but honestly explaining what the hurdles of playing high school soccer would create. The communication gives parents and players all the information to make an informed decision.

I'm a big proponent of high school soccer but I didn't expect my child to play the Texas showcase because she did choose high school. It gave other players in the club an opportunity and I support those players too. They made a sacrifice and they earned the spot for the TX showcase.

Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.

But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS.

I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.

 

[Emma]

Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.

But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS.

I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.

While I will continue to encourage and support my child to play high school soccer. From watching high school soccer, I do understand the perspective he is sharing with his players. His perspective is correct. Playing high school does remove 3 months of good development for just fun soccer. It does create bad habits that require undoing. Everything Deza said is correct. It's his observations through years of interacting with players and we pay him for his knowledge and willingness to honestly share it. There's no kool aid or veiled threat. He could have been lazy and take the easy way out to take 3 months off but he didn't. He offered the girls who wanted the extra 3 months to develop and an opportunity to showcase their development.

If your child develops better by carrying a team, then high school soccer is the right choice for your child. If your child is a happier person for playing high school with friends, then absolutely choose high school.

If your would rather develop soccer skills at a high level for 3 months instead, then stay for the break program and away from high school soccer.

My point is, there are no veiled threats, just informed decisions. There is no right or wrong decision, just different paths for different people.

Carli Lloyd, while I appreciate her honesty and her point of view, may not be everyone's perspective.

 

[GoldenGate]

Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.

But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS.

I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.

It's ridiculous to say clubs should be "neutral". They can do whatever they want and, in fact, having different options at different clubs is what makes it work. Just as many families want to play HS, many would prefer to focus on club and it helps to have as many like-minded teammates if that is going to work. Just as GDA was stupid to tell every club that kids couldn't play HS, it's just as stupid to tell every club they shouldn't discourage it. Why is it so important that Deza do things the way you want? He told kids that playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get them recruited, and it did. Maybe missing one showcase isn't such a big deal when you have 4 years of showcase, but all of these kids missed two years of being seen in person due to Covid. The ill-timed changes to the recruiting rules also meant that coaches couldn't have any contact with kids until junior year, meaning many of these kids have had no contact at all with schools. For most of these kids, their recruiting window is incredibly narrow, and they are missing a chance to be seen by 100+ coaches, especially east coast schools who aren't going to fly to CA to see league games. More importantly, their decision also impacts the ability of everyone else to get recruited too, who now need to go play with a team that's been cobbled together with backups and kids who got pulled up from younger age groups.

The irony of all of this is I'm a proponent of HS soccer. You're an idiot who seems to think that anyone who recognizes and accepts that you can't have everything and recognizes the problems with HS must be against HS soccer. Unlike you, I also recognize what playing HS means for club teammates who are scrambling to get recruited in hard times but are running out of time. You and keeper's mom are the type of people who get upset at Toyota because your Prius got stuck in the snow although the dealer told you not to drive it in a blizzard, and you're completely oblivious to the 50 Jeeps who are now stuck behind you. You keep trying to choose the wrong vehicle for the wrong purpose.

 

[LouSag]

Before the start of HS soccer the DOC at Surf told several teams (the ones he was the head coach of) that if players played HS soccer he would not assist them with college recruiting and it showed a lack of commitment to the club/program. Some parents were shocked by this, and discussed this with the club at which time the DOC denied that he had said. Unfortunately, he was in a room full of people when he said to not play HS soccer. The club elected to believe him and there were no repercussions for the DOC.

I understand from another parent that as a follow up, any girls that choose to play HS were not allowed to travel to Texas with the 05 ECNL team in the last week or two as punishment for playing HS. The '05 team had to use 06s & 07s to field a team.

Believe me, don't believe me, I don't care. My daughter played at Surf and was in the room when this was communicated. If you want to know about him maybe you can ask some parents, kids and coaches that have left since he got there. As for results, look at the '05 Surf ECNL-R team before he showed up (consistently played at a high level and won Man City last year beating 2 ECNL teams along the way) and now (middle of the road ECNLR team at best). Massive turnover with the team and a coaching change in the middle of the season. Buyer beware.

Let’s keep to the facts…any Surf players that chose to play HS soccer were excluded from the “Winter Program” at Surf. The “Winter Program” was designed as an alternative to the HS season, and it ended with the mixed age group ‘05 team trip to play in the ECNL showcase in Houston. The HS soccer season was still in session during the trip to Houston. Therefore, no HS players were even allowed to go to Houston. They were not punished for playing HS. The ‘05 team that went to Houston (and beat Solar BTW), was a mix of players who wanted to go to the showcase selected from the Winter Group.
Any Surf players knows that DOC Deza is not a fan of HS soccer. Club emails are sent fully supporting HS soccer, but privately HS soccer is demonized by the DOC. For what it’s worth, not all coaches at Surf feel the same as Deza about HS soccer.

 

[MyDaughtersAKeeper]

Let’s keep to the facts…any Surf players that chose to play HS soccer were excluded from the “Winter Program” at Surf. The “Winter Program” was designed as an alternative to the HS season, and it ended with the mixed age group ‘05 team trip to play in the ECNL showcase in Houston. The HS soccer season was still in session during the trip to Houston. Therefore, no HS players were even allowed to go to Houston. They were not punished for playing HS. The ‘05 team that went to Houston (and beat Solar BTW), was a mix of players who wanted to go to the showcase selected from the Winter Group.
Any Surf players knows that DOC Deza is not a fan of HS soccer. Club emails are sent fully supporting HS soccer, but privately HS soccer is demonized by the DOC. For what it’s worth, not all coaches at Surf feel the same as Deza about HS soccer.

The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
Open:
Bonita Vista
Carlsbad
LCC
Cathedral
Del Norte
Westview

D1:
Bishops
SDA
Valhalla
Helix
OLP

D2:
Patrick Henry
Francis Parker
Otay Ranch
Christian Patriots

That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase. The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument. Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted. The club was supportive, which is the rub. The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge? I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer. IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.

Congratulations to the girls that won. I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them. Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care. Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.

 

[LouSag]

The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
Open:
Bonita Vista
Carlsbad
LCC
Cathedral
Del Norte
Westview

D1:
Bishops
SDA
Valhalla
Helix
OLP

D2:
Patrick Henry
Francis Parker
Otay Ranch
Christian Patriots

That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase. The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument. Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted. The club was supportive, which is the rub. The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge? I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer. IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.

Congratulations to the girls that won. I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them. Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care. Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.

So Deza is supposed to send a team to the ECNL showcase in Texas based on which teams are still in the HS playoffs. That is comical.
He made it extremely clear that those who chose HS soccer would not participate in the Winter Program.

The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
Open:
Bonita Vista
Carlsbad
LCC
Cathedral
Del Norte
Westview

D1:
Bishops
SDA
Valhalla
Helix
OLP

D2:
Patrick Henry
Francis Parker
Otay Ranch
Christian Patriots

That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase. The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument. Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted. The club was supportive, which is the rub. The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge? I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer. IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.

Congratulations to the girls that won. I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them. Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care. Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.
[/QUOTE
So DOC Deza is supposed to send a team to the ECNL showcase in Houston partially based on which HS soccer players in his club are elimated from the playoffs? That is comical and impossible.
Deza made it perfectly clear. You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program. Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar. The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before. So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later. Got it.
Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March. Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.
I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer. So far, they have let the individual decide.

 

[LouSag]

Deza made it perfectly clear. You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program. Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar. The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before. So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later. Got it.
Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March. Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.

I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer. So far, they have let the individual decide.

 

[Emma]

Deza made it perfectly clear. You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program. Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar. The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before. So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later. Got it.
Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March. Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.

I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer. So far, they have let the individual decide.

Let's keep it that way. No need to be on the same page about everything. Individual choices and options works. What Surf is doing works for everyone except those that want to do both at the same time. CIF is not going to allow that.