Surf ENCL vs. Slammers Koge

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

I think one of the biggest problems with most club soccer teams at older age groups is that you only have 1 coach per team. 1 coach running a training session for 17 teenage girls/boys is really hard to do effectively. These are the age groups when girls usually have specific positions. Breaking into smaller groups to work on specific technical and tactical aspects of the game can be very helpful. Versus a coach running a 90 minute session to try and fit the needs to the entire team collectively.
So most coaches work on a tactical part of the game for 20 minutes, roll out a small sided game to try and focus on that aspect and then they scrimmage another team that they share a field field for the last 30 minutes.
 
These “Letter Leagues” provide a competitive format.
Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?
 
When I talk of 2-touch that is specific to speed of play and comfort on the ball; lets not argue over semantics. In other words, if a player is comfortable on the ball and has situational awareness they rarely if ever need more than 2 touches which makes the speed of play fast as opposed to slow play where there are excessive touches and no situational awareness. Again, watch a professional game in any professional league besides MLS and get back at me.

If many of the folks commenting on my post have YNT quality players, then I respectfully submit they should understand my inquiry and give a nuanced explanation for clarity.
You are missing out on the chance to learn from a lot of people that know better than you do because you’re stuck on your own ego. At least 4 parents of YNT/high level players have now given you similar advice - that there is value in the club soccer environment for many reasons, some of which are unique and cannot be duplicated elsewhere. My suggestion is to stop talking and listen to the quality answers that you’ve already been provided. All your questions have been answered if you would slow down and actually read. High school soccer and WPSL are valuable extra resources for their own reasons but are insufficient replacements.
There are zero high level players who have elected to forgo the club environment and play only high school and WPSL. There are many high level players who play WPSL in addition to club. Nobody plays high school to gain skill because the majority of players in high school have lower skill. There are exactly three high level players who have opted out of female club soccer - AT/GT play for a boys club and OM plays professionally. AT/GT are exceptional and played all the way up in the oldest age group for several years (and excelled) before they moved out and into a boys club.
You want to do it another way? Have at it. But it’ll be a lot harder and it’s unnecessary. I guess you have to decide if you actually want to learn from others or not. I’ve spent FAR too much time on this already so I’m out.
 
You are missing out on the chance to learn from a lot of people that know better than you do because you’re stuck on your own ego. At least 4 parents of YNT/high level players have now given you similar advice - that there is value in the club soccer environment for many reasons, some of which are unique and cannot be duplicated elsewhere. My suggestion is to stop talking and listen to the quality answers that you’ve already been provided. All your questions have been answered if you would slow down and actually read. High school soccer and WPSL are valuable extra resources for their own reasons but are insufficient replacements.
There are zero high level players who have elected to forgo the club environment and play only high school and WPSL. There are many high level players who play WPSL in addition to club. Nobody plays high school to gain skill because the majority of players in high school have lower skill. There are exactly three high level players who have opted out of female club soccer - AT/GT play for a boys club and OM plays professionally. AT/GT are exceptional and played all the way up in the oldest age group for several years (and excelled) before they moved out and into a boys club.
You want to do it another way? Have at it. But it’ll be a lot harder and it’s unnecessary. I guess you have to decide if you actually want to learn from others or not. I’ve spent FAR too much time on this already so I’m out.
You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”
 
Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

I still think she can benefit from playing on a level A team...take the blues top teams, they are excellent...but once you get below the level A team, quality usually drops a lot...and the ability to move up is difficult. Your daughter needs to PLAY to reach your goals for her...and that won't happen in a pool. Play where is the question...on a boys team, flight 1 A team, etc are all options...but you are misguided to think these other sports will help her as much as playing.

Club soccer is only a scam if you think its going to do everything for your kid or you believe the "we will develop your player" bs. Lower level club teams don't develop...they collect dues to pay for all the freebies they give to A teams to support the brand.

And quite often, many coaches don't coach...they run drills.
 
I still think she can benefit from playing on a level A team...take the blues top teams, they are excellent...but once you get below the level A team, quality usually drops a lot...and the ability to move up is difficult. Your daughter needs to PLAY to reach your goals for her...and that won't happen in a pool. Play where is the question...on a boys team, flight 1 A team, etc are all options...but you are misguided to think these other sports will help her as much as playing.

Club soccer is only a scam if you think its going to do everything for your kid or you believe the "we will develop your player" bs. Lower level club teams don't develop...they collect dues to pay for all the freebies they give to A teams to support the brand.

And quite often, many coaches don't coach...they run drills.
To clarify, I don’t think the other sports will develop her more than playing. For example, I see running 2-3 miles fast as a prerequisite to college soccer (see Stanford fitness packett upthread). Learning how to run 2-3 miles fast is drudgery for many and running XC and meeting new friends makes it more palatable; I also think that running cross country falls under the physical development aspect of soccer.
I also think swim team will contribute to cardiovascular fitness and offer active recovery; I think this goes under the physical development aspect of soccer development.

My kid will play somewhere after XC season is over.
 
You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”

Good questions!! Club soccer is so frustrating. In my experience, if you are in a letter league, you have a better chance to have a coach that can teach and understand tactically how to play. This isn't always the case, but I think you'll have a better chance of having a coach that can teach tactics at that level thana coach on a high school soccer team or on a lower level club team.

With that in mind, think about the level of players you are playing with, very difficult to teach tactics when the players aren't capable of playing at a high level. Look at Pirlo when he went to NYC, an amazing player, but drop him in on a team that isn't at the same level tactically or technically and he looks just average. Players you play with make a difference in how you play...Then you also have to think about what training sessions will look like, players on letter league teams are going to be working hard and trying to earn time that is only given out to the top players, creating an environment that will challenge and help improve all players...not going to find as much of that on lower level teams/leagues.
 
Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?
I will say your emphasis on 2 touch shows your lack of depth in understanding the game and I do t mean that as an insult.

Yes, but first need to preface this with leagues don’t develop players. Players, Coaches, parents, trainers…they develop players. Leagues provide a format and platform for those players to “express” what the aforementioned teach them.

There is too much to try and unpack for you so I’ll simply focus on some tactical issues.

First, your DD won’t learn the different positional responsibilities playing pick up. For example, the difference between a trailers role in a 433 versus a 352 or 451 for that matter. How do you team a player their roll in a high press or low block without training scenarios? For example, w hat is the roll of the 11 or the 7 in a 433 when the 9 presses the outside left back?

Second, Is the “team environments”. As it was pointed out, soccer is a team sport. The cohesive off the ball movement needed to execute your favored “2 touch” style of play will never develop individually. Yes you can train movement and touch, but nothing prepares you for the spontaneous aspect of the game like playing the game in a system against organized opposition.

To address HS, it depends on the HS. Some HS’s train like Clubs, higher Club coaches and play a system. But if you think the letter leagues are bad….try watching HS. At least in leagues, they have consolidated talent and look for skilled players for each position. HS for the most part is limited to the pool of players in their HS. So it is actually contradictory to you point about “Letter Leagues”

You keep referring to the “vast majority” of players inabilities but have admittedly only watched a few local games, which is a very broad generalization.

If you think your 13yr old will be able to beat out College age kids for an WPSL spot without playing consistently in an organized environment, you will likely face a tough awakening.

If you want to discuss further, DM me. I don’t want to continue to Jack this thread.
 
You have not answered my question. My inquiry is only about tactics. Could you please explain the tactical benefit of playing in a letter league?
I haven’t made a decision. I’m simply going through my process of “turning stones.”
Here is an example of playing in a Letter League regarding tactics that I have observed being implemented and instructed to my own children. It is an exercise that I am quite well aware of and have seen being taught at training specifically to target this lesson, implemented at games and coached during game settings. One of Barcelona's methods is the pressing method when the ball is lost to regain it as quickly as possible. Now Barcelona have a specific methods to address this. It is quite detailed. To teach this tactic my children did video sessions reviewing games to show where this tactic could be implemented. It is then carried to the field through a series of on field activities during training. Then during games implemented by players and encouraged by the staff. Another bout of video sessions to review the effectiveness and where changes could be made.
I am sure you have heard of 3four3 but here is a podcast.
 
Could you be more specific and explain how letter leagues provide benefit in the 4 areas of development: technical, tactical, mental, and physical? What does competitive format mean to you? Can high school sports also provide a competitive format?

I am particularly interested in information regarding how my kids tactical understanding of the game will improve by playing in a league where the vast majority of the players are not comfortable enough on the ball to play fast 1-2 touch soccer?
1-2 is another way of saying, "collect ((touch)) and then give and go" Great stuff Dre. I get what your getting at, right?
 
Over time on this forum, I have read your comments indicating that:
- It’s racist that Wasserman represents Moultrie but won’t return your calls after your daughter was moved up to practice with the U15 and occasionally U17 LaLiga feminil teams at Xolos (you called this “going pro”). To bolster this argument you told us all how Cal posted your kid on their Instagram after a kiddie camp.
- YNT is a waste of time and you are only interested in your daughter going straight to the full national team or playing for one of the several other countries’ YNT teams that your she qualifies for
- NCAA soccer is beneath you
- Club soccer in the US is beneath you
- Anyone who doesn’t get a college degree by 16 is slacking
- US soccer should be expected to come to Mexico and scout your 11 year old early for the U14 YNT

When you reflect back on all that, can you see the ridiculousness yet?

If she loves soccer, what if you just take your kid to your local club tryouts and let her be a kid and play as several people who know this sport well have advised? It sounds to me like you’ve got a bunch of excuses why not. What’s the real barrier?? It’s a game to be enjoyed for fun. If she works hard and kicks everyone’s ass it’ll all emerge as you wish in due time. If her talent exceeds the rest of her environment, you’ll find some new doors to open. Better test that out first though. 13 is still pretty young!

Yes, that’s all meant to be very conclusory.

Side note: my kid doesn’t often run outside of soccer practice or games anymore and she can sure as heck handle 90 minutes plus at full speed and exceed the college level beep test standard. She ran XC in middle school and won the league but never practiced with XC team as she got plenty of load at club soccer practice and we wanted her to avoid overuse.
He has a deck of victim cards... Constantly playing them.
 
Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.
My initial thought is that the AD has a vested interest in your daughter not playing club. That doesn't mean the advice isn't valid, just that it's prone to bias. In my daughter's experience at two top-level "clubs" (MVLA and those clubs associated with Deza's path), every parent and player I talked to thought club soccer was much better in terms of training and skills of teammates and competition. Invariably, HS soccer was done for the social aspect. I loved HS sports and am a bit sorry my daughter didn't play in HS but that was her choice. My limited experience with WPSL would make me concerned with the level of physical play for younger players, especially if they are smaller. Given my choices, I'd definitely take our club soccer experience over that for a High School-aged player.

I don't believe there is only one path to fulfilling soccer potential. Mixing in a variety of sports, trainers, and training methods can help keep a child motivated to get better. Nothing is more important than that. Previously you mentioned that you have gone to a few clubs, observed training, and talked to the coaches. My suggestion for you would be to contact one of the clubs you felt was the best match for your daughter and talk to them about finishing the year with a team after HS season is over in Feb/Mar. Wait until January - every coach will tell you the best time to join is ASAP ;). It won't require a full-year commitment and you'll get a taste of club soccer to see if it is good for your daughter.
 
Best teacher of the game is playing.

Play Futsal, YMCA, AYSO, local city league, Sunday latin league, high school, pickup, club, etc.

Lots of people prefer to emphasize training more than playing, 4x a week or more for how long before real competition and game playing starts regularly. To. On top of that private or semis also.

I recall some DA teams training for 3-5 months straight and only getting 3 scheduled games or so before Nov'ish. Son had some friends on the Pats and others that would almost train to death and not hardly play it seemed. Motivation for competition is often more enlightening then just training or preparing.

Not sure what the ideal training with the team, on your own, to playing competitive games ratios are but I will tell you all 3 of our players would rather play a competitive game vs training > 3 sessions a week for example. 1.5 hr playing / 6hrs training should be enough. > Greater ratios are almost like diminishing returns for a lot of people.

Have to keep things fun and loving of the sport if you want players to play 12 years or so (5 to 17/18) and continue on to college, go pro, or just as a hobby. Overtraining or not being with a successful club/teams can suck the life out of things if your a paying customer.

High school people says it's not really costing much so the expectations and happiness Factor or not as affected.
 
Best teacher of the game is playing.

Play Futsal, YMCA, AYSO, local city league, Sunday latin league, high school, pickup, club, etc.

Lots of people prefer to emphasize training more than playing, 4x a week or more for how long before real competition and game playing starts regularly. To. On top of that private or semis also.

I recall some DA teams training for 3-5 months straight and only getting 3 scheduled games or so before Nov'ish. Son had some friends on the Pats and others that would almost train to death and not hardly play it seemed. Motivation for competition is often more enlightening then just training or preparing.

Not sure what the ideal training with the team, on your own, to playing competitive games ratios are but I will tell you all 3 of our players would rather play a competitive game vs training > 3 sessions a week for example. 1.5 hr playing / 6hrs training should be enough. > Greater ratios are almost like diminishing returns for a lot of people.

Have to keep things fun and loving of the sport if you want players to play 12 years or so (5 to 17/18) and continue on to college, go pro, or just as a hobby. Overtraining or not being with a successful club/teams can suck the life out of things if your a paying customer.

High school people says it's not really costing much so the expectations and happiness Factor or not as affected.

You need a lot of good coaching, teammates, managers, parents, mentors that all can contribute to helping teach also.

Really takes a village, each step along the way can be a platform for next one. some take longer vs others.

The truly special players can and will dominate stretches of games. After a while sometimes its time to move up or along to the next level or challenge. When you see a player consistent playing at another level, time to move along. I call this the dominance factor, players that have that consistently are the ones that keep playing in college, pros, beyond.
 
You are missing out on the chance to learn from a lot of people that know better than you do because you’re stuck on your own ego. At least 4 parents of YNT/high level players have now given you similar advice - that there is value in the club soccer environment for many reasons, some of which are unique and cannot be duplicated elsewhere. My suggestion is to stop talking and listen to the quality answers that you’ve already been provided. All your questions have been answered if you would slow down and actually read. High school soccer and WPSL are valuable extra resources for their own reasons but are insufficient replacements.
There are zero high level players who have elected to forgo the club environment and play only high school and WPSL. There are many high level players who play WPSL in addition to club. Nobody plays high school to gain skill because the majority of players in high school have lower skill. There are exactly three high level players who have opted out of female club soccer - AT/GT play for a boys club and OM plays professionally. AT/GT are exceptional and played all the way up in the oldest age group for several years (and excelled) before they moved out and into a boys club.
You want to do it another way? Have at it. But it’ll be a lot harder and it’s unnecessary. I guess you have to decide if you actually want to learn from others or not. I’ve spent FAR too much time on this already so I’m out.
I think you are a passive aggressive racist that has a problem with intelligent black folks. Have you watched that pro game yet? Attached please find and American white guy saying what I was saying; hopefully you can receive the message from a white dude.
 
I think you are a passive aggressive racist that has a problem with intelligent black folks. Have you watched that pro game yet? Attached please find and American white guy saying what I was saying; hopefully you can receive the message from a white dude.
@Dominic : I do not think that this person should be allowed to participate in the blog. One can write as much nonsense as desired, that is not a problem, this is a blog after all. But reading such a racist diatribe is uncomfortable and disturbing, it should not be allowed
 
@Dominic : I do not think that this person should be allowed to participate in the blog. One can write as much nonsense as desired, that is not a problem, this is a blog after all. But reading such a racist diatribe is uncomfortable and disturbing, it should not be allowed

Pitiful.
 
I think you are a passive aggressive racist that has a problem with intelligent black folks. Have you watched that pro game yet? Attached please find and American white guy saying what I was saying; hopefully you can receive the message from a white dude.

Ironically, the video contradicts your training regimen in terms of running without a ball, and tell me where your gonna get quality rondos except on a team...we've tried to help you but you're not listening and keep putting a ton of weight on one person's opinion ...and your racist accusation is outta line so I'm done.
 
Back
Top