Surf ENCL vs. Slammers Koge

[Soccerfan2]

I love haters. Why are you misconstruing my post and avoiding my questions? Based on your comments, I don’t think you are an authority on talent development.

My kid is having fun meeting new people outside of soccer while continuing to move forward in her soccer development. Is club soccer the only way to have fun, be a kid and meet new people?

I have serious concerns about the benefits of club soccer. I think it’s dangerous. I think bad habits will be picked up. My complaint is not Mexico vs. US. My complaint is male vs. female. My kid played with all boys up until recently and I think the way females play is seriously lacking.

My kid is familiar with all of the clubs in close proximity to my house. I am looking for the best environment for my kid and that requires nit picking analysis. I have a few question for you.

Do you think the coaches in the letter leagues with their fancy licenses are very limited in what they can teach tactically because the vast majority of the players don’t have the requisite skill set for basic tactics?

How does your kid stay so fit? Is the information that I posted upthread by Dorrance about doing fitness outside of practice bad info?

I’ll take that as a no, you can’t yet see the ridiculousness. I wasn’t expecting you to take responsibility for your past positions, and no surprise, you didn’t. I guess we can add female soccer is beneath you to the list. You spin a new direction every time.
Im not a hater and I’m not an authority on anything, although I find the anecdotal experience of many others ahead of me on this thread valuable. I wish your daughter well, but man, you make zero sense to me.

 

[MacDre]

I’ll take that as a no, you can’t yet see the ridiculousness. I wasn’t expecting you to take responsibility for your past positions, and no surprise, you didn’t. I guess we can add female soccer is beneath you to the list. You spin a new direction every time.
Im not a hater and I’m not an authority on anything, although I find the anecdotal experience of many others ahead of me on this thread valuable. I wish your daughter well, but man, you make zero sense to me.

Next time you watch a professional game in any league besides MLS, count the touches and get back at me.

 

[SoccerSanDiego]

No soccer yet. Since my kid is focused on going pro and YNT, her fitness emphasis is on be able to go hard 90 minutes plus stoppage time. XC is pushing her out of her comfort zone. I’m kinda concerned about the letter leagues ability to develop her physically, technically, and mentally.

This is like teaching someone to be a chef, not using food, and instead focusing on how ovens and mixers work...then claiming the student will soon start a five star restaurant.

You may not like the style of soccer here but some of the top clubs in the top divisions are pretty darn good. And your student will get the one thing she can't get elsewhere while learning soccer (even if she has the best skills)... PRESSURE...and that changes everything.

 

[MacDre]

This is like teaching someone to be a chef, not using food, and instead focusing on how ovens and mixers work...then claiming the student will soon start a five star restaurant.

You may not like the style of soccer here but some of the top clubs in the top divisions are pretty darn good. And your student will get the one thing she can't get elsewhere while learning soccer (even if she has the best skills)... PRESSURE...and that changes everything.

She can get pressure playing high school, pick up, and summer league since no tactics can be taught in letter leagues. She’s doing XC for fitness as a supplement not as a substitute for soccer.

I don’t have a problem with a style of play as my daughter is comfortable in playing different positions, different formations, playing direct, possession and counterattacking.

My position is that 2-touch is a prerequisite to playing any style of high level soccer.

 

[Soccerfan2]

She can get pressure playing high school, pick up, and summer league since no tactics can be taught in letter leagues. She’s doing XC for fitness as a supplement not as a substitute for soccer.

I don’t have a problem with a style of play as my daughter is comfortable in playing different positions, different formations, playing direct, possession and counterattacking.

My position is that 2-touch is a prerequisite to playing any style of high level soccer.

You have it exactly backwards. 1,2,3-touch is the outcome. Freedom of touch is the prerequisite so that players develop comfort on the ball and learn to decide when they should pass, dribble or shoot.

 

[Texas2Cali]

Can we please get back to the biased bashing of Surf and Slammers for their cowardly behavior in not playing this game?

 

[MacDre]

You have it exactly backwards. 1,2,3-touch is the outcome. Freedom of touch is the prerequisite so that players develop comfort on the ball and learn to decide when they should pass, dribble or shoot.

We are talking about letter league players and older. Comfort on the ball is synonymous with 2-touch, should be developed by time a player is 12-13, and should be a prerequisite to participating in a letter league.

What’s freedom of touch?

 

[SoccerSanDiego]

She can get pressure playing high school, pick up, and summer league since no tactics can be taught in letter leagues. She’s doing XC for fitness as a supplement not as a substitute for soccer.

I don’t have a problem with a style of play as my daughter is comfortable in playing different positions, different formations, playing direct, possession and counterattacking.

My position is that 2-touch is a prerequisite to playing any style of high level soccer.

The higher the level, the greater your opponents ability to apply EFFECTIVE pressure to you and your teammates... you dont get that from lower level leagues or training sessions. Being able to 1 touch is easy at lower levels, not so much at higher. As the saying goes: everyone has a plan in the boxing ring until they are punched in the face.

 

[MacDre]

The higher the level, the greater your opponents ability to apply EFFECTIVE pressure to you and your teammates... you dont get that from lower level leagues or training sessions. Being able to 1 touch is easy at lower levels, not so much at higher. As the saying goes: everyone has a plan in the boxing ring until they are punched in the face.

We are not talking tactics, we are talking pressure. Athletes that can apply pressure exist outside of letter leagues. Maybe playing in an adult female futbol rapido league will apply more pressure. Maybe playing pickup with 12-13 y/o boys will apply more pressure. Maybe doing rondo’s will apply more pressure. Hell, my old ass can chase her while she has the ball and apply pressure.

So, can we agree that there’s a wide range of athletes that can apply pressure outside of the letter leagues? If so, what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players do not have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

 

[Kicker4Life]

We are not talking tactics, we are talking pressure. Athletes that can apply pressure exist outside of letter leagues. Maybe playing in an adult female futbol rapido league will apply more pressure. Maybe playing pickup with 12-13 y/o boys will apply more pressure. Maybe doing rondo’s will apply more pressure. Hell, my old ass can chase her while she has the ball and apply pressure.

So, can we agree that there’s a wide range of athletes that can apply pressure outside of the letter leagues? If so, what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players do not have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

Out of curiosity, what is your soccer background?

 

[Carlsbad7]

We are not talking tactics, we are talking pressure. Athletes that can apply pressure exist outside of letter leagues. Maybe playing in an adult female futbol rapido league will apply more pressure. Maybe playing pickup with 12-13 y/o boys will apply more pressure. Maybe doing rondo’s will apply more pressure. Hell, my old ass can chase her while she has the ball and apply pressure.

So, can we agree that there’s a wide range of athletes that can apply pressure outside of the letter leagues? If so, what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players do not have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

I tend to be more in your camp regarding individual style/play vs club clone.

However...

Where I see the individual players excel is against "B" teams. Ironically the club clone players sometimes have issues against "B" teams (when not playing with their team) because they're not used to not having other players to pass to or work with when going up the field.

Where I see club clone players excel is against "A" teams. Individuals tend to get killed when playing against "A" teams that practice/play possession.

Coaches like (+ look for) big, strong, fast individual players that they think they can mold into club clone / possession players.

 

[MacDre]

Out of curiosity, what is your soccer background?

Hanging out at Club Tijuana for the past 10 years. Attending pro games and watching on tv. Hanging out with players from Xolo’s. My kid also played in Chula Vista at futbol factory before they closed. I believe Ruvacalba at Club Tijuana is also a technical director for the Mexican Federation. My kid has made contact with all the decent clubs in close proximity to my house.

I have also read extensively on the topic. For example, the pages from the Dorrance book that I posted upthread. I have also analyzed the arguments on the mens side regarding the low level of play in college and domestic leagues. I have also observed letter league games.

Finally, I have posted questions on this forum seeking clarification from those further ahead in the process such as what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

 

[MacDre]

I tend to be more in your camp regarding individual style/play vs club clone.

However...

Where I see the individual players excel is against "B" teams. Ironically the club clone players sometimes have issues against "B" teams (when not playing with their team) because they're not used to not having other players to pass to or work with when going up the field.

Where I see club clone players excel is against "A" teams. Individuals tend to get killed when playing against "A" teams that practice/play possession.

Coaches like (+ look for) big, strong, fast individual players that they think they can mold into club clone / possession players.

I’m cool on the club clone homie.

 

[Soccerfan2]

Hanging out at Club Tijuana for the past 10 years. Attending pro games and watching on tv. Hanging out with players from Xolo’s. My kid also played in Chula Vista at futbol factory before they closed. I believe Ruvacalba at Club Tijuana is also a technical director for the Mexican Federation. My kid has made contact with all the decent clubs in close proximity to my house.

I have also read extensively on the topic. For example, the pages from the Dorrance book that I posted upthread. I have also analyzed the arguments on the mens side regarding the low level of play in college and domestic leagues. I have also observed letter league games.

Finally, I have posted questions on this forum seeking clarification from those further ahead in the process such as what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

This is an arrogant and flawed assumption.

The benefit of putting your kid out there to see how her skill stacks up before you assume it’s beneath you would be that you could actually find out for yourself.

 

[MacDre]

what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

This is an arrogant and flawed assumption.

The benefit of putting your kid out there to see how her skill stacks up before you assume it’s beneath you would be that you could actually find out for yourself.

Your position is presumptuous. Maybe your family has different goals. What’s skills are we trying to assess? Wrestling?

I am simply trying to assess how olders players have benefited tactically by playing in letter leagues where the vast majority of players can’t play 2-touch?

I’m not judging. I’m simply making and observation and seeking clarification so I can have all information before I proceed. Even geniuses ask questions homie.

I’ll ask again since you keep refusing to answer my simple question: what’s the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

 

[lafalafa]

Well if nothing else these two clubs are the champs of the pseudo franchise names.

Slammers might be tops with the creative use of the pseudonym. The LAFC monker was interesting since they are not LA or have the demographic by any stretch but Koge? Denmark, Sweden?

Anyway the clubs do the field bookings, right? what I've seen others do is charge a fee for rescheduling that can discourage that sort of thing unless it's really important.

 

[SoccerSanDiego]

We are not talking tactics, we are talking pressure. Athletes that can apply pressure exist outside of letter leagues. Maybe playing in an adult female futbol rapido league will apply more pressure. Maybe playing pickup with 12-13 y/o boys will apply more pressure. Maybe doing rondo’s will apply more pressure. Hell, my old ass can chase her while she has the ball and apply pressure.

So, can we agree that there’s a wide range of athletes that can apply pressure outside of the letter leagues? If so, what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players do not have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

Tactics and pressure go hand in hand. If you dont know how to defend, you can't apply effective pressure...you chasing your daughter in the yard is very different than the multutude of decisions that have to happen very quickly against a skilled team.

If she is getting that outside of club, great...kuddos to you. Personally I think the club system sucks and wish there were other alternatives. Most clubs promise a lot but deliver little...its like a puppy mill but for kids.

 

[MacDre]

Tactics and pressure go hand in hand. If you dont know how to defend, you can't apply effective pressure...you chasing your daughter in the yard is very different than the multutude of decisions that have to happen very quickly against a skilled team.

If she is getting that outside of club, great...kuddos to you. Personally I think the club system sucks and wish there were other alternatives. Most clubs promise a lot but deliver little...its like a puppy mill but for kids.

Thanks for your candor and for letting me off the hook so I don’t have to chase my kid around.

At the beginning of this a academic year the AD of my kids school assured me club soccer was a scam. The AD recommended that my kid run XC, play high school soccer in winter, swim team in the spring, and a summer league like WPSL or the USL W league while continuing technical training throughout the year. The AD’s plan makes sense to me. I’m just curious as to why folks have a singular focus on club soccer and have discounted high school sports.

 

[Avanti]

Your position is presumptuous. Maybe your family has different goals. What’s skills are we trying to assess? Wrestling?

I am simply trying to assess how olders players have benefited tactically by playing in letter leagues where the vast majority of players can’t play 2-touch?

I’m not judging. I’m simply making and observation and seeking clarification so I can have all information before I proceed. Even geniuses ask questions homie.

I’ll ask again since you keep refusing to answer my simple question: what’s the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

I am going to reply because you seem to be genuinely asking, and then will go away. Just in case it helps, you should know that a few of the people that are replying in this thread have girls that have reached the goals of your daughter (YNT and/or college, I am discounting "going pro" because as of today there is not really such a thing for women, except for those that make senior NT and have inflated contracts).
I can teach my girls most aspects of technique better than most coaches, because I have played a lot at a high level. However it is impossible for me to teach them other equally important aspects of soccer such as how to play within a team (positioning with respect to all other players, speed of play, pressing, controlling yourself, etc), because you need a group of girls (or boys) that play at the same level or better than your daughter to do so. You cannot learn this by watching videos, using a whiteboard or by yourself in the park. If you think that soccer learning in a good club team is bad (which is obviously utter nonsense), wait to see the learning in a high school team.
You do not make any sense when you keep repeating two touch play. Two touch play is not a tactic, a skill, a soccer shangrila or anything else. It is at most a rule that a coach may impose in practice during a rondo or some other "possession" drill. You should be talking about ability to control the ball in different settings, passing the ball, space awareness, speed of play etc. Repeating ad nauseam that two touch play is the way to play soccer makes you sound funny

 

[MacDre]

I am going to reply because you seem to be genuinely asking, and then will go away. Just in case it helps, you should know that a few of the people that are replying in this thread have girls that have reached the goals of your daughter (YNT and/or college, I am discounting "going pro" because as of today there is not really such a thing for women, except for those that make senior NT and have inflated contracts).
I can teach my girls most aspects of technique better than most coaches, because I have played a lot at a high level. However it is impossible for me to teach them other equally important aspects of soccer such as how to play within a team (positioning with respect to all other players, speed of play, pressing, controlling yourself, etc), because you need a group of girls (or boys) that play at the same level or better than your daughter to do so. You cannot learn this by watching videos, using a whiteboard or by yourself in the park. If you think that soccer learning in a good club team is bad (which is obviously utter nonsense), wait to see the learning in a high school team.
You do not make any sense when you keep repeating two touch play. Two touch play is not a tactic, a skill, a soccer shangrila or anything else. It is at most a rule that a coach may impose in practice during a rondo or some other "possession" drill. You should be talking about ability to control the ball in different settings, passing the ball, space awareness, speed of play etc. Repeating ad nauseam that two touch play is the way to play soccer makes you sound funny

When I talk of 2-touch that is specific to speed of play and comfort on the ball; lets not argue over semantics. In other words, if a player is comfortable on the ball and has situational awareness they rarely if ever need more than 2 touches which makes the speed of play fast as opposed to slow play where there are excessive touches and no situational awareness. Again, watch a professional game in any professional league besides MLS and get back at me.

If many of the folks commenting on my post have YNT quality players, then I respectfully submit they should understand my inquiry and give a nuanced explanation for clarity.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Finally, I have posted questions on this forum seeking clarification from those further ahead in the process such as what is the benefit of a letter league if the vast majority of players don’t have the requisite skill set to learn basic tactics?

It is interesting that with such limited exposure the game, that you are drawing so many broad conclusions. Have your ever attended any of the “Letter League” Showcases to watch some of the Top Teams play? Have you watched MVLA’s ‘04’s or Solar or TopHat play, especially against one another?

Soccer/Futbol is a vast universe with not just one skill set. My Dd is pretty far along in he process. We’ve been fortunate to find high quality Coaches who teach the tactics and game mentality. The technical stuff is up to the player to do in their own, outside of the team environment.

These “Letter Leagues” provide a competitive format. You could even put her on a Boys team in a league like OM and T sisters.