Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL

[socalkdg]

Right now it appears the best leagues for women are in Europe. As our NWSL gets better, the best talent will move to Europe and play there. In time that will help the US become better.

Europe has some amazing teams, but they also have some really bad teams on the women's side. Almost all of Spain's team played for two European teams, that makes a huge difference always playing together. The USWNT needs to spend more time together so they can play as a team.

61 players from the NWSL played in the world cup this year. If the NWSL plays it right, their next TV contract(which comes after this season) could double the money for player contracts. If minimum contracts move up to 80K and we get more players making 200-500K, combined with US endorsements, players will want to be here for the financial stability. That will keep 90% of the Canadian, US, and Latin American players in the NWSL, as well as drawing in players from other countries.

 

[LouSag]

You are probably correct none of the Japanese women would be making the US team. But I think their argument may be that they just don't make a good fit for the current players. The USWNT roster will not change much. So at this moment of time they have to work with the talent they have and wait for the next generation of girls that will play in Europe to form that competitive team that may bring back the glory. We are going to get what we get with this current team. It's way too late for them to develop in to technical tacticians. That process starts from a young age and it requires players to be actively playing in those types of systems.

Germany is the example to follow. Men’s team got eliminated from the 2015 World Cup and did a top down complete reevaluation of the entire national system beginning at the youth academies. US Soccer should have taken this path starting yesterday. Your comment of 8-12 years for success on the world stage for the USWNT is, I’m afraid, accurate.

 

[Carlsbad7]

That is the truth. US Soccer is lazy. If your kids stands out in the GA, NPL, ECRL or at a lower level ECNL team, US Soccer isn’t gonna watch them play….ever.

This is exactly the problem. Even for the youth teams USWNT is pulling from groups that favor size and boot it up over skill.

Everyone seems to know what needs to be addressed but nothing is changing.

 

[socalkdg]

From Jill Ellis covering many of the points listed here.



Such discussions should include changes at the U.S. youth development level, she added.

"At the end of the day, you want the best players to train with the best players," Ellis said. "I mean, the ECNL had a 6-0 semifinal. There's so much disparity in that league, and it's the best."

The Elite Clubs National League, or ECNL, is the premiere youth developmental league in the United States for girls.

"The beauty of the smaller countries is they get the best to train with each other, so how do we look at that environment?" Ellis added. "How do we get the best coaches in the youth environment? The training environment matters."

Ellis is president of San Diego Wave FC in the National Women's Soccer League.

The NWSL does not have a homegrown player rule, which would incentivize teams to develop young players so they can have first dibs on signing them professionally, but sources have told ESPN it is an idea that's been under discussion for years. Only half of the teams in the league have their own youth academies.

 

[Ellejustus]

From Jill Ellis covering many of the points listed here.



Such discussions should include changes at the U.S. youth development level, she added.

"At the end of the day, you want the best players to train with the best players," Ellis said. "I mean, the ECNL had a 6-0 semifinal. There's so much disparity in that league, and it's the best."

Who gets to decide who the best players are? Our so-called scouts are not independent, and they must answer to the Doc and take Docs recommendations because Doc knows who the best can be. They also have to answer to the God Fathers of all these top clubs. No joke, but when a Doc talks to a potential goat these days, he goes and meets daddy to see how good the player can become. If daddy is driving a BMW and wearing a Rolex, Doc see's the potential for becoming elite and one of the best.

 

[Avanti]

At the youth level, U17 and U20, there is no reason why the US should not do better. In fact, in the last U17 cycle leading to the India World Cup, a few weeks before the WC the US defeated and tied Spain in two games, defeated Germany and defeated Japan. The US team were playing great soccer, because their coach had the correct idea of treating the ball with respect, being patient and control possession as much as possible. It took her 4 camps to select a team and a few more camps leading to the WC to play that way, but by the end of the preparation she got them to play correctly. So the players, at least at the youth level, do exist.
It is a different story at the senior level. Several countries like Spain (France, Germany, England), that have the size or are smaller than California and have a similar or larger population than California, have better professional leagues (sometimes 2 professional leagues). Think about that, imagine California having a professional league of 16-18 teams, with at least 3 teams being able to wipe the floor with any NWSL team. In these countries (sadly for the countries), soccer takes an amazing amount of funding and time resources. They have crazy know-how and infrastructures developed for men, and within a few years they have made them available to women soccer. The level of coaching and the number of coaches, the know-how, are just not comparable and will never be even close.
To start fixing this, teams in the NWSL should be playing much better. They have the money and they should invest it better (better coaching, hiring players not because of past commercial appeal?). Whoever watched Portland vs NC last Sunday (1st and 2nd teams in the NWSL table), after watching Spain vs England the same day, understand that these teams are playing different games. In addition, little by little, more players that think that the pro path is better for them than college, will continue moving younger to the NWSL; some will go to Europe, etc. US domination is over, instead the US will have a good chance of doing well or even winning a WC every now and then.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Ellis also said...

"Do I see it as a step back? No, I see it as a motivating force," Ellis told reporters at the FIFA Women's Football Convention on Friday. "People need to come to the table. We can spur more collaboration. Maybe this is a moment and reflection point for us to get together and for stakeholders to work out a bigger plan."

Asked by ESPN if the USWNT's failure at the Women's World Cup reflected shortcomings of the NWSL because all but one player (Lindsey Horan) plays in the U.S.-based league, Ellis said it is something that should be discussed.

"I think those conversations have got to happen and are going to happen," she said.

"The U.S. had a head start -- in a 100-meter race, the U.S. had a 10-meter start with Title IX," she said. "I grew up in England, I didn't have opportunities to play football until I moved to the U.S.

"But I think now we've got to make sure we have multiple pathways for players. Not just college -- players have got to find and choose their own pathway.

"Where we've gotten to in the U.S. is there are younger players going pro, going to Europe. That's what's important: giving top players choices."

To me this sounds like Ellis knows exactly what's wrong with the USWNT + how to fix it. Unfortunately she's benefited from the current system as is + isn't going to burn bridges to make change happen.

 

[Ellejustus]

Ellis also said...

"Do I see it as a step back? No, I see it as a motivating force," Ellis told reporters at the FIFA Women's Football Convention on Friday. "People need to come to the table. We can spur more collaboration. Maybe this is a moment and reflection point for us to get together and for stakeholders to work out a bigger plan."

Asked by ESPN if the USWNT's failure at the Women's World Cup reflected shortcomings of the NWSL because all but one player (Lindsey Horan) plays in the U.S.-based league, Ellis said it is something that should be discussed.

"I think those conversations have got to happen and are going to happen," she said.

"The U.S. had a head start -- in a 100-meter race, the U.S. had a 10-meter start with Title IX," she said. "I grew up in England, I didn't have opportunities to play football until I moved to the U.S.

"But I think now we've got to make sure we have multiple pathways for players. Not just college -- players have got to find and choose their own pathway.

"Where we've gotten to in the U.S. is there are younger players going pro, going to Europe. That's what's important: giving top players choices."

To me this sounds like Ellis knows exactly what's wrong with the USWNT + how to fix it. Unfortunately she's benefited from the current system as is + isn't going to burn bridges to make change happen.

"Choice" is the word of the day. I was attacked on here in 2018 for just asking a few questions to the Elites on here and sharing with them that Pro soccer should be a good choice instead of dealing with Math, SAT Scores, Biology, Boys, Mid Terms and finals in college. The college player only plays games for 2 and half months and then it's all about school and the system. Trust me, the girls playing Spain do not have to worry about being a Unicorn soccer player. All they have to do is play soccer and work hard. It's free too There was no choice for my little one, only ridicule from parents mocking me for thinking that life outside of college can work for some and money is not everything. People keep talking about the lack of money for girls. WTF cares about money. Giving girls a choice and freedom to choose is way better for girls. Remember boys, if we don't have girls we can't have any boys Let's take care of the girls and make sure their treated with respect and have the funds needed to survive.

 

[Avanti]

At the youth level, U17 and U20, there is no reason why the US should not do better. In fact, in the last U17 cycle leading to the India World Cup, a few weeks before the WC the US defeated and tied Spain in two games, defeated Germany and defeated Japan. The US team were playing great soccer, because their coach had the correct idea of treating the ball with respect, being patient and control possession as much as possible. It took her 4 camps to select a team and a few more camps leading to the WC to play that way, but by the end of the preparation she got them to play correctly. So the players, at least at the youth level, do exist.
It is a different story at the senior level. Several countries like Spain (France, Germany, England), that have the size or are smaller than California and have a similar or larger population than California, have better professional leagues (sometimes 2 professional leagues). Think about that, imagine California having a professional league of 16-18 teams, with at least 3 teams being able to wipe the floor with any NWSL team. In these countries (sadly for the countries), soccer takes an amazing amount of funding and time resources. They have crazy know-how and infrastructures developed for men, and within a few years they have made them available to women soccer. The level of coaching and the number of coaches, the know-how, are just not comparable and will never be even close.
To start fixing this, teams in the NWSL should be playing much better. They have the money and they should invest it better (better coaching, hiring players not because of past commercial appeal?). Whoever watched Portland vs NC last Sunday (1st and 2nd teams in the NWSL table), after watching Spain vs England the same day, understand that these teams are playing different games. In addition, little by little, more players that think that the pro path is better for them than college, will continue moving younger to the NWSL; some will go to Europe, etc. US domination is over, instead the US will have a good chance of doing well or even winning a WC every now and then.

And just to show that coaching makes a big difference:

Tremendous Team Play and Left Foot Shot (USA vs Canada, U-17 CONCACAF 2022 Champship)

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Ellejustus]

And just to show that coaching makes a big difference:

Tremendous Team Play and Left Foot Shot (USA vs Canada, U-17 CONCACAF 2022 Champship)

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Excellent movement of the ball. I really like this player. We have some really good youth players, and the future can be bright if we can change the way we play and pass the rock around more like this team. I read a story about Allyssa T being "lonely" and "sad" at the world cup. This should have been the best time of her life and to read her story was kind of depressing.

 

[Grace T.]

This mirrors what I saw with Benfica when they held a camp at PLNU.

The coaches knew exactly what they were looking for + the type of player that would work in an Academy system.

There's definitely opportunity in Europe starting to happen for girls/women.

The immigration laws in Europe and the child labor laws in the US are both obstacles, however. It's no accident a lot of the U18 players in Europe like Pulisic have double citizenships. African and Latin American players have the same issue.

 

[WatchthemPlay]

By and large, the system doesn’t support or promote possession-based soccer or give players the freedom to develop confidence to play this way. There are exceptions (Surf in ECNL and City in GA), but it’s rare. Girls are told (from direct personal and other parent/player experience at high ranked ECNL clubs/teams) to boot it up and don’t risk losing it by maintaining possession to make a good pass. Get it up to the fast forwards, win it back when the lose it, boot it up again, bully it into the goal. This is what is being taught and encouraged by 80% of the top clubs. 100% agree that being able to play both ways is very important, but what I saw the USWNT do at the World Cup very much matches the kick it up and chase it/battle it/use your body to get it into the goal.

 

[aong cangkol]

Only 1 player playing in Europe hmm, Interesting article here from UK ESPN https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/page/uswntreport0809/uswnt-soccer-dominance-world-cup-2023-exit

Colombia has 8 and Morocco has 13. In my opinion Colombia had a great showing and they showed they can play with any of the top dogs. Taking out Germany in the process and giving England a very competitive game. They touch and move the ball way better than the USA and they do not have the athletes the US has. I was very impressed with their team.

View attachment 17865
Colombia's Roster 8 players that play in Europe 7 in Spain and 1 in Germany
View attachment 17866

Morocco's Roster only 2 in SpainView attachment 17867

USWNT used to dominate and now that it starts losing, I hope US Soccer will finally admit they have to change youth development system.
We know things never work with USMNT (half of starting players are developed outside US) due to the same youth development issue but previously the argument is talent competition with football, basketball and baseball.
Hopefully a losing USWNT will finally put an end to 10k/year youth soccer experience.

 

[Highlander]

I read a story about Allyssa T being "lonely" and "sad" at the world cup.

This caught my eye so I googled it, here is the story.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but seems weird that she didn't mention more senior members of the team helping her. Hope she is doing ok.

 

[LASTMAN14]

This statement boggles my mind. Do you think we have technical & tactical players that are at the level of Spain? Where are they? If they exist they must be American and had moved to Europe at an early age. With our youth development system we have today, I do not think we can develop them if they played in the US. Now I’m not saying that we do not have technical girl players with decent technique but I’m referring to the level of Spain, with the tactical mind. Can the American technical players play tiki taka like the Spanish women? Most likely not if they grew up playing soccer in the US. For example take Rose Lavelle she’s a technical player imo and a decent athlete. Ashley Sanchez is another technical player maybe lacking a little athleticism. Both on the big team. But if you insert them on the Spanish team, I can see them struggling because they do not play on teams that move the ball like that. The tactical part would definitely be missing. Maybe that’s why US soccer picks athletes first because the youth system is flawed and it would bring a whole new level of complexity to try to play like Spain. If players did not develop the proper technical and tactical traits by age 14/15 then it would be very hard to develop when they are already women. It takes years of training, being taught by the right coaches and being exposed by the right soccer system early on to develop this type of technique.

Yes, we do. I watch them all the time. But they are not being considered. They go overlooked and undervalued by US Soccer and college coaches. For example my two DD have played in a possession based system since day 1 and a few years ago literally before Covid their team played in Spain against the academy teams of Valencia, Osasuna, Athletico Madrid, Osasuna, Seville, and Lyon. We won playing the same way they do. I will point out a college player to watch at UCLA. She’s a defender and plays the 3. Quincy McMahon and she reminds me Olga from Spain. If US Soccer does not bring someone in like her…I just don’t know. None the less a system that works to develop players must be put in place to develop players. The current methods are inadequate and not cohesive.

 

[Ellejustus]

This caught my eye so I googled it, here is the story.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but seems weird that she didn't mention more senior members of the team helping her. Hope she is doing ok.

AT needed to start or be first off the bench. Give her a shot now or bring in a veteran to sit. The #1 pick in our league did not play much and that was stupid, and coach should be fired for that move alone. Seriously, I watched AT play for 11 years and I never saw her sit on the bench, never! AT is also one the most confident players I know at her age and no reason she only got 17 minutes at the WC.

 

[tjinaz]

Seems like it used to be the NWSL was better than Europe. The best players came to NWSL for competition and now its reversed. Is that accurate or has the women's leagues in Europe always been better?

 

[whatithink]

Seems like it used to be the NWSL was better than Europe. The best players came to NWSL for competition and now its reversed. Is that accurate or has the women's leagues in Europe always been better?

Its not easy to compare. The NWSL is run by the owners and setup for parity with salary caps, draft etc.

The Euro leagues run like any of their leagues, i.e. pro/rel, you spend your money etc., so there can be a gulf in quality within the league.

I think that Barca, Lyon, Chelsea, Wolfsburg would be better than the best NWSL teams ... but the NWSL teams would comfortably compete with most of the teams in the corresponding leagues.

Looking forward, I think, with the top (men's) pro clubs fully engaged, the NWSL will find it hard to compete. The Euro soccer leagues know how to make money with the EPL leading the way. They (EPL) are spending millions annually at this point on their WSL teams. That's only increasing, and the England team is mirroring that progression, i.e. as the WSL has grown, the national team has gotten better and better.

My 0.02.

 

[Desert Hound]

Looking forward, I think, with the top (men's) pro clubs fully engaged, the NWSL will find it hard to compete. The Euro soccer leagues know how to make money with the EPL leading the way. They (EPL) are spending millions annually at this point on their WSL teams. That's only increasing, and the England team is mirroring that progression, i.e. as the WSL has grown, the national team has gotten better and better.

THIS ^^^^

The mens clubs are now starting to back their women's side of the coin at the same club. They are and will get better.

I think the path will be like we are seeing in the USL/MSL. Now there are local opportunities to train and play. These leagues have gotten better. As they have gotten better it give a chance for our best to then move up to the EURO leagues and play against the best.

I think this is likely what we will on the US womens side with the NWSL. Until NWSL really figures it out...you will start seeing the top talent moving overseas to play against and learn with the best.

Most NWSL womens are drafted from college. In Europe those ladies are joining the clubs and doing full time training far earlier.

 

[Ellejustus]

THIS ^^^^

The mens clubs are now starting to back their women's side of the coin at the same club. They are and will get better.

I think the path will be like we are seeing in the USL/MSL. Now there are local opportunities to train and play. These leagues have gotten better. As they have gotten better it give a chance for our best to then move up to the EURO leagues and play against the best.

I think this is likely what we will on the US womens side with the NWSL. Until NWSL really figures it out...you will start seeing the top talent moving overseas to play against and learn with the best.

Most NWSL womens are drafted from college. In Europe those ladies are joining the clubs and doing full time training far earlier.

THIS^^^^

 

[Brav520]

This caught my eye so I googled it, here is the story.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but seems weird that she didn't mention more senior members of the team helping her. Hope she is doing ok.

This speaks a lot to the lack of team chemistry with this USWNT. This team was a collection of players , not really a “team”. Lacked some true veteran leadership that many of the previous teams had

Good experience for AT, she will learn from it. At these levels the mental part of the game becomes so important

Reminds me of the Earl Woods talking about mentality