SoCal Soccer Attitude Change

[Jairzinho]

Threads like this are proof this forum was better off being shut down. Develop thick skin or don't ref. Better yet, if you never played then don't bother becoming a ref. Yes I'm talking to YOU. We already have way too many uneducated, incompetent refs in this country. Most of them, like these big mouth parents who think their kid is Gods gift to the game, should just stay home. The game doesn't need YOU. Moreover, YOU (and your sense of entitlement) are the reason why this game can't evolve in this country.

Have a nice day!wicked1

 

[SCS Fan]

Troll!

 

[Surfref]

I don't think refs' competence is the issue. Most of the refs do an adequate job. The issue is lack of a forgiving attitude toward others' reasonable mistakes. Refs can't get all the calls right yet some parents expect them to. Parents can't act rationally when their kids are on the field, yet some refs expect them to be quiet like they're watching an opera.

This is in reference to youth games with spectators sitting on the sidelines. Spectators sitting the bleachers/stands of a stadium are usually too far away for me to understand what they are saying. I expect spectators to cheer for their team and say something when they think I missed a call or made a bad call. I expect to get yelled at every time I make a foul call or not make a call. Someone will disagree with every call I make or don't make, even if it is obvious I made the correct decision. I am okay with that. The majority (99 percent) of spectators will yell one maybe two comments then drop it. The problem occurs when those 1 percent of spectators continuously yell at me. My primary threshold is when I have players either repeat what the spectator is saying or the spectator starts directing comments at the players from the other team. That is when I address the issue with the coach. Most coaches already know the problem parents. A good coach will shut that parent up before I even have to stop the game and talk to the coach. When I have to talk to the coach about a spectator it is the ultimatum talk. "Coach, am I really going to have to remove you from the game or are you going to take care of the guy in the red shirt?" Remember coaches are responsible for their spectators. At that point most coaches will tell the spectator to leave. This works well for both the coach and I, since the coach removed the spectator I do not have to write a report and the coach can use me as the bad guy that got rid of the spectator. I have had many coaches thank me for asking them to take care of a spectator because that spectator usually also annoys the crap out of the coach.

As a referee, I have to adjust how I call a game based on how the players are playing and their comments toward me. As spectators, you need to adjust the comments you make toward the referee by what they will allow. If a referee says no more comments or talks to the coach about the spectators, than keep your mouth shut. If you poke a rattlesnake with a stick, they will strike. If you annoy the referee, they will send you to your car. Just be smart about what you say, how you say it, how often you say it and how loud you say it. If you do that, most referees will not have a problem with your comments. Yes, I have seen referees remove spectators for just one comment. These are usually newer and less experienced referees.

 

[Laced]

If you annoy the referee, they will send you to your car.

This is exactly where we disagree. We don't disagree with regard to abusive sideline behavior. You have the authority to eject parents for abusive comments but not annoying comments. What annoys you annoys the rest of us too, but the rules protect you from abuse but they don't protect your sensitivities. When you stop a game just because a comment annoys you, you're overstepping your authority, just like a cop who closes down a freeway for one driver's minor infraction.

 

[coachrefparent]

When you stop a game just because a comment annoys you, you're overstepping your authority, just like a cop who closes down a freeway for one driver's minor infraction.

And each of those things occur at about the same frequency.

 

[Surfref]

This is exactly where we disagree. We don't disagree with regard to abusive sideline behavior. You have the authority to eject parents for abusive comments but not annoying comments. What annoys you annoys the rest of us too, but the rules protect you from abuse but they don't protect your sensitivities. When you stop a game just because a comment annoys you, you're overstepping your authority, just like a cop who closes down a freeway for one driver's minor infraction.

Since you want to play word games, let me change the wording for you. "If you do not respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner, you will be sent to the parking lot." That wording was taken straight out of the Cal South Ethics for parents and spectators. Cal South gives me the authority to not only have a spectator removed for abusive comments, but for just questioning my decisions or making loud or disrespectful comments. If a comment annoys me, it is because I felt that it was disrespectful. And, I do have the authority to remove spectators from youth games if I feel their comments are disrespectful (annoying).

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Our 'club' model is flawed. 99% of 'club' play is at a rec level, if all involved would understand this it would be better. Relax.

 

[wildcat66]

We all understand that the league, cal south, tournament etc has given you the authority....it just seems that some consistency needs to happen within the ref community. One team will rarely call anything, ignore spectator comments, and let them play. The next bunch is hyper sensitve to every peep from the sidelines, calls every contact a foul, and would prefer to have no spectators at all. Respect is earned by being professional, competent, and calling a good game, not something that should be mandated by the controlling agency. That type of respect is never genuine and doesn't work, hence the crazy parents and coaches.

 

[jrcaesar]

That type of respect is never genuine and doesn't work, hence the crazy parents and coaches.

Friend of mine, whenever we catch up on how our kids' teams are doing, always tells me how his son's 13U team gets screwed by the referees ("as usual"). He fails to recognize that his coach is a jerk to other coaches and to referees, spends most games complaining, and that their parent sidelines are quick to yell and holler about fouls, non-fouls, and everything else that occurs during the game (no coach control). So which respect needs to comes first?

 

[Laced]

Since you want to play word games, let me change the wording for you. "If you do not respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner, you will be sent to the parking lot." That wording was taken straight out of the Cal South Ethics for parents and spectators. Cal South gives me the authority to not only have a spectator removed for abusive comments, but for just questioning my decisions or making loud or disrespectful comments. If a comment annoys me, it is because I felt that it was disrespectful. And, I do have the authority to remove spectators from youth games if I feel their comments are disrespectful (annoying).

The difference between "annoying" and "abusive" is just a word game to you? That may explain why you misread portions of LOTG

 

[SCS Fan]

Just to make it a little easier for some here - From Cal-South Code of conduct:

• Show respect and courtesy to game officials, coaches, and players at all times.
• Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from
addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner.

 

[Laced]

Just to make it a little easier for some here - From Cal-South Code of conduct:

• Show respect and courtesy to game officials, coaches, and players at all times.
• Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from
addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner.

What you're citing is irrelevant as nobody is disputing that abusers should be ejected. Likewise, it's irrelevant that it's a ref's responsibility to check a player against the picture on the player card yet it's not properly done half of the time. Or a ref didn't know game lengths or reentry rules. The issue is how we deal with others mistakes.

 

[Laced]

As I posted in another thread, it dawned on me why I wasn't getting my point across that abusers should be removed but referees shouldn't interrupt the game just to issue warnings. "The flow of the game" is not fully appreciated by most people who didn't grow up playing the game. The refs on this thread probably feel that it's better to stop the game and warn a few loud parents before things get out of hand. The tradition of soccer is that you just don't stop games except when it's absolutely necessary.

 

[SCS Fan]

Laced, I think you would make a great referee and I encourage you to take your passion on these issues one step further and get certified. I understand personal situations sometimes seem to not afford time to be a referee but once certified you can pick and choose when and where to do games. You might be surprised by the sense of self-accomplishment you get by properly calling a match and it's a great way to give back to the game. If you have a player in their teens you can go through the process together.

 

[Laced]

Laced, I think you would make a great referee and I encourage you to take your passion on these issues one step further and get certified. I understand personal situations sometimes seem to not afford time to be a referee but once certified you can pick and choose when and where to do games. You might be surprised by the sense of self-accomplishment you get by properly calling a match and it's a great way to give back to the game. If you have a player in their teens you can go through the process together.

Thank you for the kind words. If anything, I'd want to be a volunteer coach. I have great regrets I didn't do that when my kids played AYSO

 

[Just a Parent]

How's parents' ignorance of the game relevant to abuse? Abuse is abuse regardless whether the parent knows the game or not. If it's abuse, refs have the authority to throw them out and that's that.

"How's that a foul?" or "Our call" are annoying and obnoxious but are not abusive. These are mistakes just like refs' bad calls, or mistakes about game lengths or reentry rules. Spectators in other sports boo refs, question their calls, but game goes on. There's no reason why soccer refs need bubble wraps any more than refs in other sports.

Why should soccer refs copy other sports' refs?

 

[Just a Parent]

The implications that most parents are clueless always comes up. Can't speak for all teams, but many of the ref "abusers" that I know aren't the clueless ones. They are the former college players, current and former coaches and current and former refs. People who have been around the sport for a while. One of the most vocal parents from my daughters team is actually a current ref who has been doing for a while, not a clueless soccer mom.

Why has this referee remained clueless after doing this "for a while" as you say? Is there no one who could offer him help?

 

[Just a Parent]

Let me spell it out for you, as you seem to have trouble understanding what some of us are saying. I haven't seen a single person who advocates ref abuse. Most of refs' mistakes are understandable, even on simple things like game lengths or reentry, because they work games of different age groups. And because their breaks may not be long. Why then are some of parents' mistakes like "Handball!" so intolerable? When refs stop games because they can't handle things of that nature, they waste everyone's time. They waste time of those of uswho haven't said a single word. Most importantly, they stop the flow of the game for the kids for trivial stuff a normal person should be able to hand. Do you close the highway because of a fender bender? A whistle shouldn't give a ref an egg shell psyche.

I find it hilarious that you blame the referee for enforcing competition rules by stopping the game and not the screaming maniac who caused the game to be stopped.

 

[Just a Parent]

Threads like this are proof this forum was better off being shut down. Develop thick skin or don't ref. Better yet, if you never played then don't bother becoming a ref. Yes I'm talking to YOU. We already have way too many uneducated, incompetent refs in this country. Most of them, like these big mouth parents who think their kid is Gods gift to the game, should just stay home. The game doesn't need YOU. Moreover, YOU (and your sense of entitlement) are the reason why this game can't evolve in this country.

Have a nice day!wicked1

It's been a while since we saw this degree of delusion.

 

[Laced]

I find it hilarious that you blame the referee for enforcing competition rules by stopping the game and not the screaming maniac who caused the game to be stopped.

Competition rules gives referees the authority to remove abusive spectators. This is not in dispute. They don't give them the authority to stop the game at will just becaus they're annoyed.

The flow of the game is specifically mentioned in LOTG. There're no timeouts, no water breaks. The referees cannot reverse their decisions after restart, and are not to confer with each other constantly just to get calls right. Getting calls right is not important as the flow of the game. The rules are designed to keep any disruption of the game to the minimal. When a player appears injured, the referee only allows a very short period of time for him to be attended to, or he is removed from the field. There's no other sport where you're laying hurt on the ground, and the ref baiscally tells you to get your injured ass off the field, fast, so they can carry on.

When shouting doesn't rise to the level of abuser, those referees that stop games simply don't have any concept of "the flow of the game." Shouts of "Foul" or "Offside" are annoying but they don't justify a stoppage. Those sideline mistakes can be ignored just as referee mistakes. It's a referee's duty to maintain the flow of the game. When referees stop games to correct sideline comments that don't rise to the level of abuse, what they're doing is essentially the same as sideline misbehavior - overreaction to others mistakes.