Just a Parent
SILVER ELITE
I said there weren't any bleachers because there aren't.
I also said I have never seen any soccer referee dismiss anyone from the bleachers. I haven't.
SoCal Soccer Attitude Change
- Thread starter Sentient Being
- Start date
I also said I have never seen any soccer referee dismiss anyone from the bleachers. I haven't.
Just a Parent
SILVER ELITE
Does anyone know how to get the laughing emoticon?
coachrefparent
GOLD
JAP has generally in the past been a bit [...] but these posts are particularly direct. Is the San Berdardino complex you refer to at 2500 PACIFIC ST, HIGHLAND, CA 92346? Or another location?
Ask sheriff joe he was the guy who referred to the bleachers in SB. I merely have said that the answer when told where the bleachers were, was silly. In my other post I should have referred to sidelines not bleachers as I have never seen refs in other youth sports dismiss spectators for their comments from the "sidelines" for their comments. They just tune out the crowd. I understand that the refs feel empowered by the code of conduct but I assume most other sports have similar codes. I know the high schools have codes of conduct for athletics. It just seems to me that youth soccer refs have a hyper sensitivity to crowd comments unlike the refs of other sports . As I have stated many times I have never engaged a ref in a game let alone questioned there decision. I have witnessed it happen many times, and in almost all the cases, if the ref had just ignored the person, coach etc and kept the game going the incident would have resulted in nothing vice an ejection, card, argument.
Just a Parent
SILVER ELITE
So, you want referees to ignore competition rules? What other rules would you suggest they ignore as well?
But leave alone youth sports. How about professional sports? What do you think will happen if a spectator leaves his seat and gets to the sideline to question the referee or AR? How many comments do you guess he will make? Do you think he will watch the remainder of the match from that point?
In most sports the spectators are policed/monitored by the venue, i.e. Security, stadium staff etc not the referees. I just think refs spend too much time and effort doing that part of their tasking wether directed to or not. Is guessing that those rules were developed by the leagues, cal south, tournaments in order to promote sportsmanship and good will for the parents who desire a more "civilized, cultured, and wholesome" atmosphere for their kids. I guess I would prefer that type of stuff is self taught and not legislated by the league. Of course I am somewhat. Barbaric and less civilized than most.
Just a Parent
SILVER ELITE
In soccer, referees are still responsible for sideline conduct regardless of the venue.
But speaking for myself, I don't care what the reasons are behind this. My job is to simply enforce competitition rules. Control of sideline is the easiest of all my tasks and takes the least time.
coachrefparent
GOLD
Yes, why on earth would we want this as opposed to (mostly) clueless people challenging, insulting and otherwise yelling the whole match (over which way a throw in should go, no less)?
How's parents' ignorance of the game relevant to abuse? Abuse is abuse regardless whether the parent knows the game or not. If it's abuse, refs have the authority to throw them out and that's that.
"How's that a foul?" or "Our call" are annoying and obnoxious but are not abusive. These are mistakes just like refs' bad calls, or mistakes about game lengths or reentry rules. Spectators in other sports boo refs, question their calls, but game goes on. There's no reason why soccer refs need bubble wraps any more than refs in other sports.
We had a girl on defense get knocked down 3 times by the forward that she was guarding. About a 6" and 30LB difference. Call could go either way. Nothing called. Couple times our coach would say "she is shoving her with her arm", but nothing more than that. About the 4th time the girl ran right through our girl, who doesn't get up, and the referee called it. The opposing sideline went crazy. Referee warned them. Understand we are on the opposite side and can hear their yelling. One guy(parent/coach not sure) then yells something like "we are paying you guys start refereeing correctly(maybe not as nice and I put it)" and the referee threw him out.
To me, the parents/coaches on the sidelines are setting bad examples. Its one thing to make a quick comment about something, but parents and coaches need to get over it. The referee seemed to ignore simple comments from both sides and kept the play going. When it started getting over the top, and then the integrity of the referee was called into question, they were thrown out. I've seen a coach throw a stop watch into the chest of a referee, cops called on a assistant coach, foul language that just won't stop from parents. I've asked my daughter what she thinks of everything going on, and she feels embarrassed for some of the coaches and parents.
Note this has occurred at high school football games my older daughter cheers at, and at basketball games where all the parents for one team were thrown out. I've noticed that the coaches set an example for the parents. If they see the coach act a certain way, they start acting the same way. In the heat of the moment you might make a comment, but then we parents need to close our mouths and get back to the game.
To me, the parents/coaches on the sidelines are setting bad examples. Its one thing to make a quick comment about something, but parents and coaches need to get over it. The referee seemed to ignore simple comments from both sides and kept the play going. When it started getting over the top, and then the integrity of the referee was called into question, they were thrown out. I've seen a coach throw a stop watch into the chest of a referee, cops called on a assistant coach, foul language that just won't stop from parents. I've asked my daughter what she thinks of everything going on, and she feels embarrassed for some of the coaches and parents.
Note this has occurred at high school football games my older daughter cheers at, and at basketball games where all the parents for one team were thrown out. I've noticed that the coaches set an example for the parents. If they see the coach act a certain way, they start acting the same way. In the heat of the moment you might make a comment, but then we parents need to close our mouths and get back to the game.
The implications that most parents are clueless always comes up. Can't speak for all teams, but many of the ref "abusers" that I know aren't the clueless ones. They are the former college players, current and former coaches and current and former refs. People who have been around the sport for a while. One of the most vocal parents from my daughters team is actually a current ref who has been doing for a while, not a clueless soccer mom.
Wait for it.... Here come the refs lol!!
jrcaesar
SILVER ELITE
I don't know what's more offensive here, using the term "clueless soccer mom" or suggesting that a referee is badgering another referee during your daughter's games?
Watched the USA / Swiss game. US player called offside. If not called had a break away. In the replay she was about 1 yard onside. AR was about 2 yards behind the play. If these referees make mistakes, club referees are going to make mistakes. I'll take a referee that keeps play going, no one gets hurt, and each team gets about the same good and bad calls. Always had trouble with Umpires when the daughter was still playing baseball and softball. It would be 2 feet outside and they would call it a strike. Your 9 year old then swings at a ball that far out and strikes out because of the last pitch. She bats twice. Great fun. 
Let me spell it out for you, as you seem to have trouble understanding what some of us are saying. I haven't seen a single person who advocates ref abuse. Most of refs' mistakes are understandable, even on simple things like game lengths or reentry, because they work games of different age groups. And because their breaks may not be long. Why then are some of parents' mistakes like "Handball!" so intolerable? When refs stop games because they can't handle things of that nature, they waste everyone's time. They waste time of those of uswho haven't said a single word. Most importantly, they stop the flow of the game for the kids for trivial stuff a normal person should be able to hand. Do you close the highway because of a fender bender? A whistle shouldn't give a ref an egg shell psyche.Watched the USA / Swiss game. US player called offside. If not called had a break away. In the replay she was about 1 yard onside. AR was about 2 yards behind the play. If these referees make mistakes, club referees are going to make mistakes. I'll take a referee that keeps play going, no one gets hurt, and each team gets about the same good and bad calls. Always had trouble with Umpires when the daughter was still playing baseball and softball. It would be 2 feet outside and they would call it a strike. Your 9 year old then swings at a ball that far out and strikes out because of the last pitch. She bats twice. Great fun.
The passage below is from the Cal South Code of Conduct, clubs and leagues have similar statements. In many cases parents sign an agreement with their clubs agreeing to abide by these codes of conduct when joining the club. This statement is crystal clear and it's in the best interest of everyone that this Code of Conduct be followed.
Parents and Spectators
The parents' role is one of support to the players and coaches. Parents should not engage in
"coaching" from the sidelines, criticizing players, coaches or game officials or trying to influence
the makeup of the team at any time. Every parent and spectator is expected to:
• Learn and respect the rules of soccer and the rules of the CYSA-South.
• Show respect and courtesy to game officials, coaches, and players at all times.
• Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from
addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner.
• Cheer for your child's team in a positive manner, refraining at all times from making
negative or abusive remarks about the opposing team. Maintain control of your emotions
and avoid actions, language, and/or gestures that may be interpreted as hostile and
humiliating.
• Ensure that your child is at all games and practices at the required time or provide the
coach with an appropriate excuse beforehand.
• Demonstrate appropriate gestures of sportsmanship at the conclusion of a game, win or
lose.
• Teach and practice good sportsmanship and fair play by personally demonstrating
commitment to these virtues.
• Promote the concept that soccer is merely a game, and that players and coaches on
other teams are opponents, not enemies.
Parents and Spectators
The parents' role is one of support to the players and coaches. Parents should not engage in
"coaching" from the sidelines, criticizing players, coaches or game officials or trying to influence
the makeup of the team at any time. Every parent and spectator is expected to:
• Learn and respect the rules of soccer and the rules of the CYSA-South.
• Show respect and courtesy to game officials, coaches, and players at all times.
• Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from
addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner.
• Cheer for your child's team in a positive manner, refraining at all times from making
negative or abusive remarks about the opposing team. Maintain control of your emotions
and avoid actions, language, and/or gestures that may be interpreted as hostile and
humiliating.
• Ensure that your child is at all games and practices at the required time or provide the
coach with an appropriate excuse beforehand.
• Demonstrate appropriate gestures of sportsmanship at the conclusion of a game, win or
lose.
• Teach and practice good sportsmanship and fair play by personally demonstrating
commitment to these virtues.
• Promote the concept that soccer is merely a game, and that players and coaches on
other teams are opponents, not enemies.
Surfref
PREMIER
I think one of the problems is that there are not enough experienced referees (10+ years of experience) to match up with the higher level games (U15 and above) which means the lower level/younger games get the inexperienced refs. Most of these U15 and above games have spectators/parents that have been involved with soccer for a number of years and rarely yell at the referee. If the more experienced referees are assigned primarily to these U15 and above, then the U14 and below games get the less experienced or new referees that are more likely to make mistakes and get yelled at by the spectators. Some of these inexperienced referees have not learned how to deal with the loud spectator other than warn them then remove them. No one likes to get yelled at. Most experienced referees know to just ignore the comments unless it somehow interferes with play such as players repeating the comments of the spectators.
Your spelling is off. Use auto-correct next time.
I'm saying the referees I've dealt with don't have a problem with a single word and do let the flow of the game continue. Sounds like you end up with a different type of referee. Here is the real question, when the referee comes to the sideline and tells the parents to quiet down, do they say ok, or argue back? I've found being polite works well in this situation.I don't know what works well in this situation but why does this situation have to come up at all? A parent has a warped perspective when their kid gets knocked down. It's irrational yet understandable. Refs on the other hand don't have their own kids on the field, and therefore they can be expected to be rational and act like adults. When they take parents' shouts personal, they're no longer the only rational adults in the game. That's why I believe refs can avoid situations like the one you described by dismissing those comments as what they are. Simply because you got heckled a few weekends ago 50 miles away doesn't mean you should lecture a different group of parents before the game. Simple because some parent shouts "Foul" doesn't mean he/she is challenging your competence. It means no more than that the parent has the silly idea he/she can be the 12th man and can "work" the refs.Your spelling is off. Use auto-correct next time.
I don't think refs' competence is the issue. Most of the refs do an adequate job. The issue is lack of a forgiving attitude toward others' reasonable mistakes. Refs can't get all the calls right yet some parents expect them to. Parents can't act rationally when their kids are on the field, yet some refs expect them to be quiet like they're watching an opera.