Thank you for sharing sir. Happy Easter!!!I was in the youth system back then and played against/with Landon in the cycle he went to Bradenton. I got cut in the national pool at ODP, one step removed from making the final roster.
I regularly think about the system back then and the youth system today. Back then, theoretically everyone had a chance to make the ODP national team. You'd start off with district level try-outs which were open to everyone who could pay a small fee (ie. <$50 but probably varied by region). Any kid who had aspirations to make the national team could essentially enter guest services at the bottom of the pyramid. If you manage to stick out among the rabble, you'll get picked for the district team and compete at the State level try-out against other districts. This State try-out also had a fee. This fee was noticeably more expensive than the district level. At the state level it gets harder because not only of the increased competition but you have to knock-off players who made the State team the previous year that the coaches favor. If you manage to make the State team, you go to the Region camp (in my day, it was a week long) where you train and compete against other states. The fee was even higher and if I remember correctly it was somewhere between $500-800 travel included. I remember using my after school job to help pay for it. If you make the Region team, then you go to one final camp which was the national team pool. This is where the actual ODP national team is picked. If you were lucky to make this (which I wasn't), then you're in the direct pipeline for the Olympic team and USMNT. And depending on the age group, you could be invited to Brandenton.
The criticism of the system back then was that it was "pay to play" since you basically had to pay at every try-out stage. If you made it to the end, you would likely be paying somewhere between $1400 - 2000. Though these costs seem pedestrian by today's standards when a 9 year-old on a local C-team easily pays more than that for bronze-level play. The fees for ODP were a barrier, but I was hardly rich or well-off growing up and I found ways to raise the money because the costs weren't astronomical.
The other criticisms were that ODP was susceptible to the "good ole' boy' network. Meaning coaches had their favorites and some of the teams seemed predetermined. I can confirm this. On the last day of State try-outs, I scored 5 goals in the last scrimmage. At the final huddle, the coach literally said, "I know our team was pretty much set, but it looks like I'll have to make room for one more..." it basically took me scoring 5 goals in a single game to squeeze onto the roster. So yes it would often require "best case" or "miracle" performances to breakthrough. This is one of the reasons why some thought it would be better to identify players in their "natural environment" via scouts instead of endless tryouts.
But the problem with the new ODP and even the DA, it's actually easier for talented players to slip through the cracks. Here in California, ODP only really has "independent" scouts at National Cup events (in the latter rounds) and the rest is done by well-connected coaches recommending their own players. So if you're a talented player but don't have a well-connected coach or not on a team good enough to make it far into National Cup, you will NEVER get on the ODP radar. Using my previous analogy, the lowest level of the ODP pyramid has become a VIP lounge or "Fight Club". The average player won't even know of its existence. And I don't mean "average" as in ability, but the average participant in CalSouth which could include talented players.
And if you wanted to pursue the club route to the national team, just in SoCal we have Presidio, Coast League, SCDSL, SDDA, ECNL, NPL, and DA. Where does an up and coming player go? Every one of those leagues will have someone who will promote their league as "the way" or "pathway" to elite soccer. We have fractured talent at the top and diluted talent at the secondary levels. If anything the diluted talent at the secondary levels is hurting our overall player pool because you got some good "late bloomers" at the "Silver-Elite" level who would benefit playing other "Silver-Elite" or low "Gold" level teams. But there's no more "Silver Elite". There's just this wide band of Silver/High Bronze" leagues/brackets, which means these late-bloomers end up in purgatory never getting consistent enough competition or attention from the club to breakthrough. It's statistically proven it's often late-bloomers who end up having the most success at the pro levels, but we basically purge our late-bloomers.
Back in my day, *waves cane furiously in air*, the system was flawed but we had a single pyramid for the most part. Most competitive clubs had one team per age group. "Travel Teams" didn't "Travel" unless they were good. You didn't make the team unless you were good. Travel teams had a clear lane where it was designed to lead you to college. ODP was for those that wanted to make a run at the national team or maybe go pro. We had rigorous training but at the same time we didn't have coaches and clubs trying to profit off every avenue of self-expression like "pick-up" games and futsal. I remember one of my coaches had a standing invitation for us to drop in on his Sunday afternoon pickup games if we didn't have our own pickup games in the neighborhood. Something like this would be unheard of now if it didn't come attached with a $25 "drop-in" fee. You also have just about every soccer field and gym in SoCal booked to the hilt, so even if a group of kids wanted to go play a pickup game, the field would be completely full with club teams with field permits getting priority. I guess it's back to FIFA20 on the PS4.
I think it's a lot of these little things, not just Bradenton, that led to a "golden era"-ish 20-25 years ago that we've struggled to recapture since. Unfortunately Pullisic seems more like an anomaly rather than leading edge of a new golden era. His dad was well connected and a Euro Passport allowed him to escape the US youth system to Dortmund at 16.
I don't know what the best system is. Perhaps a combination of the old and new. The technical ability of today's players is FAR FAR better than player's of my day. My son's technical ability at 13 was better than mine at 18. But my creativity and free expression was and still is better than his. He can juggle to 500 on 5 different body parts, but I can beat a Keeper 1v1 countless ways. Even when I watch high level DA matches, I regularly see players make an absolute mess of breakaway situations. Lack of imagination and composure, it's embarrassing.
If I were to take a stab at the solution I would say, consolidate most of these leagues so you have some semblance of a pyramid. Make a clear college pathway and "pro" pathway so even a first year soccer mom understands which she's getting into. Players can pursue both pathways (for as long as it's feasible) but they should be completely separate systems. Let US Soccer or ODP handle the "pro" pathway via open tryouts and camps at the entry levels. Then let the players filter to MLS academies or directly to the youth national teams. No more of these local clubs selling $4,000 Euro trips for the hopes that little Johnny will play for Manchester City or Real Madrid. Clubs have a terrible track record for "pro" placement, so keep the vast majority on the college track. For the few ambitious clubs that want to offer a legit Pro pathway, then they must become a feeder system for a USL club, not just be their T-shirt affiliate.
For all the flaws of the youth system in the 90s, at least we had clarity. We knew as Americans that 99.9999% of us would probably never get paid more than McDonalds money playing soccer if anything at all. Travel team soccer got you into college, ODP allowed you to pursue the dream of being in the Olympics or National team. ODP at the district level and especially the state level threw a lot of cold water at kids who thought they would be the next Romerio, Maradona, Baggio, or Pele. Kids who thought they were the shit, came back whimpering pretty quick in the process if they didn't measure up. But nowadays it seems with all these multi-flight segregated leagues, Lil' Johnny (and more importantly his parents) don't get cold water thrown in their face until much too late. After they've spent thousands of dollars year after year and after the club squeezed every dollar out of them until they became bitter and jaded.
Sorry for the long rant. Just wanted to share my experience. I got too much COVID time on my hands.
Say bye-bye-bye to Girls and Boys DA
- Thread starter dreamz
- Start date
Thank you for sharing sir. Happy Easter!!!
El Clasico
GOLD
Happy Easter great post. Reminds me that USMNT and eventually USWNT are done.
@Soccer43 Happy Easter. Although I went a little more cray cray than you, we both called this one. Something wasn;t right. Besides my goat failing at 500 juggles at her one TC tryout, she also didn;t recruit very well for the head master of the TC in San Diego. No one on one battles, no 40 yard dash races and no scrimmages. I saw one girl juggle way over 500 times and do so many tricks I thought we were at a circus. She made YNT.
July 30th, 2019 Thread #434 "ECNL vs DA Trurf War has created a Toxic Environment"
Great post. ECNL (College Scholarship) vs DA (YNT). I went to the first DA party. I was very excited. I wanted my dd to get a ticket to Hollywood to audition for the YNT. She was also told by coaches the judges loved how she played......hahahahahaha. No invite. My dd was pissed. She was super pissed they picked 12 05s out of 48 girls for the first U14 YNT. Some of the 04s they picked were kids who were excellent at the TCs. Juggle 500 times and great skills in small area. She now realizes she is not the type of player they want to develop. She's a gamer. The toxic part in all this: DA is really trying to sell college just like ECNL. However, the rules don't match up. Also, all the top DA clubs DOCs will tell that this YNT is a load of crap for 99.9% of the players and its all about the college scholarship. DA needs to shrink in size quickly and find the players that want to go for YNT and pro. That's the EURO style. The US style is ECNL=College. If you show my dd a way to make some serious $$$ playing professionally she might take 30 minutes out of her day to juggle and get to 500. I think she's at 100 in a row.....lol
July 30th, 2019 Thread #434 "ECNL vs DA Trurf War has created a Toxic Environment"
Ellejustus said:
Great post. ECNL (College Scholarship) vs DA (YNT). I went to the first DA party. I was very excited. I wanted my dd to get a ticket to Hollywood to audition for the YNT. She was also told by coaches the judges loved how she played......hahahahahaha. No invite. My dd was pissed. She was super pissed they picked 12 05s out of 48 girls for the first U14 YNT. Some of the 04s they picked were kids who were excellent at the TCs. Juggle 500 times and great skills in small area. She now realizes she is not the type of player they want to develop. She's a gamer. The toxic part in all this: DA is really trying to sell college just like ECNL. However, the rules don't match up. Also, all the top DA clubs DOCs will tell that this YNT is a load of crap for 99.9% of the players and its all about the college scholarship. DA needs to shrink in size quickly and find the players that want to go for YNT and pro. That's the EURO style. The US style is ECNL=College. If you show my dd a way to make some serious $$$ playing professionally she might take 30 minutes out of her day to juggle and get to 500. I think she's at 100 in a row.....lol
One of the best posts I’ve read in a long time. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience.
I agree with many of your comments. I do think that some players/parents still get cold water thrown in their faces, but instead of whimpering away they complain that their Lil Jonny or Sally is the shit and keep trying to play with the big dawgs. There are a ton of above average soccer players who think they are the best playing DA and ECNL, but above average does not make you elite or give you GOAT status. I think we can still pin point the elite players amongst the above average player, because they still stand out even at the highest level (whatever that is now). The pyramid is a great way to explain how the system should work, but right now the system looks more like a trapezoid.
Too many dads who had more cash than the rest of us were able to get in the game. It's is simple as that Sandy. Most parents think their kid is Elite or even world class because the coaches and the clubs tell them that. Most of us r damm fools and no nothing about this game. It's water under the bridge and we soon shall find out who the true goats are and who the regular soccer players are. Should be some good old competition coming.
ChalkOnYourBoots
BRONZE
Wow. Seriously the best post I have read here or anywhere in a long time. You've nailed it... and have the resume that should cause people to read and consider. It should be considered required reading. I'd encourage you to forward it to some of the publications we all reference so it doesn't get lost in the string of hot-takes here.
Speaking of hot-takes... Yes, there were certainly some problems with the ODP pathway, and selection methods. Very few systems exist completely based on merit. But at least there was a single clear pathway for the very few unicorns to find their way. Nothing wrong with a bit of cold water being poured on a dream now and again. I too *shaking my cane vigorously*.
Here's to hoping this horrible virus and the pause it is causing us all to take, leads to a better future. Thanks for your thoughtful post.
What are you talking about? The WNT is the greatest women’s soccer team in the history of the world and shows no signs of slowing down. For every Lloyd who is reaching the end, there’s a Macario to step in. Three years of GDA was not enough to ruin an entire generation of talent. They will continue to dominate the world stage indefinitely, although they will also continue to lose a World Cup or Olympic game every occasionally to countries that manage to temporarily catch lightning in a bottle.
On the boys’ side, yes, DA was around long enough to ruin a generation, and the MLS-only academy that will probably replace is likely to make things worse. It will make the highest level of soccer even more exclusive at too young an age, and require even more travel or even require families to move, which most families are not willing to do for a child’s game.
If anything is certain in boys’ soccer, and sports in general, it is that the best players at 13 are virtually never the best at 18 unless you run off those kids who will eventually be the best athletes. There is only one way to be a great soccer power, which is for more kids to play the sport more often and for a longer span of years. When you start telling such large numbers of 13 year olds they can only play second tier, they migrate to sports that actually want them. The irony is that a system that allows the “highest” level in each age group to play for free actually makes soccer worse overall in the U.S. The old system that essentially let regions do what was best for them, with a limited ODP or national system that provided incentive to improve without upending kids’ lives AND the entire region, was definitely the way to go.
If this all comes to play, I wonder how many ECNL teams will fold with most of the DA teams moving over.
You want to talk about politics in soccer? Just go back to the selection of the National Men's team when 3/4 of the team pool were current or former UCLA players and the National coach was a former UCLA coach. Think the year was early 90"s, maybe 92 or 93. Galaxy wrote an article about how it changed soccer in this country and kept some really talented players out of the selection. Yep, not much has changed. Focus on your player and what is best for him or her. Focus on teaching him/her about integrity, loyalty, honesty and hard work, lessons that will out last their limited formal soccer life.
Surf Zombie
GOLD
What makes you think most of the DA teams are moving over? Just my opinion, but why would ECNL ever allow that? IMO ECNL will cherry pick the 10-20 clubs it wants and the rest of the DA clubs will move to NPL. I've been told by someone in the know that there is only 1 club being added to the NE ECNL conference and there are a dozen DA clubs from NH to PA. Barring a big fish like Surf being admitted in your back yard, this will make the existing ECNL clubs stronger by absorbing DA players.
Wow, only one? ECNL is open for business, that's for sure. They help student/soccer players with the college process. I like that. Good, sound business model too
You are correct sir. ECNL will only consider adding clubs they need to bolster an otherwise weak region (such as Surf in SD) or the club is just too strong to pass up (Tophat and Surf). Even then, there’s no guarantee that ECNL won’t operate from the premise that “payback’s a bitch” if unanimous approval by all clubs in the region remains a condition of admission.
Most were done in the past year- My only point was that it was a VERY expensive year sending 100’s of players and coaching staff all over the world for weeks at a time (14 events x 20 players x up to 10 or more in coaching staff)
Surf Zombie
GOLD
If if ECNL my strategy is 1. Grab the power clubs (FC Dallas, Top Hat, Surf, etc.) 2. Look at what regions need additions for better travel/scheduling purposes, for example, the mid-west. After that let the rest of the DA clubs head to NPL, which in and of itself will strengthen ECNL’s existing weaker clubs through defecting DA players.
Some of those trips (Euro Vaca for some) were a way to say "Thank You" for supporting the GDA, loyalty thanks and for being all in with the GDA over the ECNL league
14 events over 3 years of which many were domestic.
And they should be doing more based off of what I have learned about what other countries do. Which is why I think it’s wise they divert more funds toward the National Team structure than a youth sports league.
ECNL should immediately try and grab all the good DA clubs (like, say, all of the ones on the soccerwire top 100) and do it quickly before some other league/system gets sorted out and throws them a lifeline.
Kill off asap any chance of a competing league starting up. Any sense of retribution or punishment for clubs who would be a good inclusion would be a detriment to what is in the league's best long term interest.
Surf Zombie
GOLD
Heard from one of the parents at the other ECNL club here in MA that their coach broke the end of DA news to his players on a Zoom call last night and told them that girls from a nearby DA club will come looking for their spots very soon so they better be putting in the work during this Covid 19 break from play.