Say bye-bye-bye to Girls and Boys DA
- Thread starter dreamz
- Start date
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Talking to my sister (son plays on MLS DA team) and apparently MLS owners have been suggesting getting out of DA for a while. US Soccer facing challenges on boys and girls side...maybe DA going away doesn’t sound far-fetched.
Dear Daughter is dd.
dear daughter
soccer661
SILVER ELITE
Yes, that’s right. Not dear daughter, darling daughter. Goes way back to old forum.From long ago.....I believe it's Darling Daughter
Either is fine. Its a common internet acronym that started back in the early days of online forums, long before this or the previous forum.
Maybe, maybe not. If they focus the funds saved on developing the player pool in actual team/camp environments versus trying to create a league based system it more closely mirrors other countries programs.
I guess the challenge will be ID-ing girls for the pools. My guess is the connected clubs/coaches and college system will serve that purpose for US soccer. My assumption there won’t be funds to engage in broad scouting.
When an organization that generally brings in little revenue in comparison to their expenses, has a sizable budget(7.2 Million), and is projected to be 10% over budget, it is not a good thing. This same organization's actual expenses last year(8.5 Million) in 2019 was much larger than projected for 2020, so I can almost guarantee you they were well over budget last year as well. In organizations I have been involved with, mismanagement like this would cause heads to be rolling.
As far are your point about US soccer not having to spend money on the DA right now since no soccer is being played, it is totally irrelevant. There is no revenue, so the goal right now is to keep the lights on without burning through all their cash. It's the same reason the Airlines need a government bailout... no matter how many flights they cancel to lower their expenses, they will be unable to pay their bills because of other built in expenses. It's also the same reason that many small business are going bankrupt... they don't have to pay their furloughed staff and save on some expense by closing their offices, but with no revenue they cannot survive. Same is true with US soccer.
Just moving from one form of politicization to another. Instead of "We want to put this
I've seen it written here before, and now I'm starting to believe; YNT ID is a not what it's cracked up to be. Only thing that matters is U-20 and senior YNT. College coaches that have skin in the game, not YNT coaches that get recycled within US Soccer after multiple failures, are the judge.
They would have a bigger budget to play with to work those things out.
Was that our fools "Golden" generation? Or did it actually work? Landon and Jozy (say what you will, but he's still around), Eddie Johnson, and others came out of there, right?
From the US Soccer website: "From the start of 2017 to date, the USA’s six youngest Women’s and Girls’ Youth National Teams – the U-15s, U-16s, U-17s, U-18s, U-19s and U-20s – have played 84 international matches"
From 2019 -2020 (only counting international competitions, not including the training camps): 14 events in the past year.
U16 Netherlands June 2019; England Feb 2020
U17 Portugal May 2019; Czech Republic May 2019 (a different roster); Sweden Sept 2019
U18 England Feb 2019; Florida -Tricontinental Cup Jan 2020
U19 Spain March 2020
U20 Spain March 2019; Virginia vs Germany June 2019; Chula Vista vs Japan August 2019; Florida, several countries Dec 2019; Concacaf Dominican Republic Feb 2020
U23 England Aug 2019
84 matches, across 6 teams over 3 years. Average 4.6 games per team per year. Note that during this time you have had some CONCACAF and FIFA events that would skew the numbers.
Not sure if your contesting or supporting my statement.
Regarding @Ohcanada s insurance comment.
What is the size of the settlement? 50M plus legal fees. If this was the case any insurance company would lay the hammer clause down and would have settled as it is their money. Also, an Employment Practice Liability policy rarely has limits that high and since there is no defamation the General Liability policy may not come into play but even then limits as high as the claim are unlikely even with an excess liability layer and again the insurance attorneys would have the hammer and settle. Cordero was going to fight until the end. US Soccer is on the hook
What is the size of the settlement? 50M plus legal fees. If this was the case any insurance company would lay the hammer clause down and would have settled as it is their money. Also, an Employment Practice Liability policy rarely has limits that high and since there is no defamation the General Liability policy may not come into play but even then limits as high as the claim are unlikely even with an excess liability layer and again the insurance attorneys would have the hammer and settle. Cordero was going to fight until the end. US Soccer is on the hook
I was in the youth system back then and played against/with Landon in the cycle he went to Bradenton. I got cut in the national pool at ODP, one step removed from making the final roster.
I regularly think about the system back then and the youth system today. Back then, theoretically everyone had a chance to make the ODP national team. You'd start off with district level try-outs which were open to everyone who could pay a small fee (ie. <$50 but probably varied by region). Any kid who had aspirations to make the national team could essentially enter guest services at the bottom of the pyramid. If you manage to stick out among the rabble, you'll get picked for the district team and compete at the State level try-out against other districts. This State try-out also had a fee. This fee was noticeably more expensive than the district level. At the state level it gets harder because not only of the increased competition but you have to knock-off players who made the State team the previous year that the coaches favor. If you manage to make the State team, you go to the Region camp (in my day, it was a week long) where you train and compete against other states. The fee was even higher and if I remember correctly it was somewhere between $500-800 travel included. I remember using my after school job to help pay for it. If you make the Region team, then you go to one final camp which was the national team pool. This is where the actual ODP national team is picked. If you were lucky to make this (which I wasn't), then you're in the direct pipeline for the Olympic team and USMNT. And depending on the age group, you could be invited to Brandenton.
The criticism of the system back then was that it was "pay to play" since you basically had to pay at every try-out stage. If you made it to the end, you would likely be paying somewhere between $1400 - 2000. Though these costs seem pedestrian by today's standards when a 9 year-old on a local C-team easily pays more than that for bronze-level play. The fees for ODP were a barrier, but I was hardly rich or well-off growing up and I found ways to raise the money because the costs weren't astronomical.
The other criticisms were that ODP was susceptible to the "good ole' boy' network. Meaning coaches had their favorites and some of the teams seemed predetermined. I can confirm this. On the last day of State try-outs, I scored 5 goals in the last scrimmage. At the final huddle, the coach literally said, "I know our team was pretty much set, but it looks like I'll have to make room for one more..." it basically took me scoring 5 goals in a single game to squeeze onto the roster. So yes it would often require "best case" or "miracle" performances to breakthrough. This is one of the reasons why some thought it would be better to identify players in their "natural environment" via scouts instead of endless tryouts.
But the problem with the new ODP and even the DA, it's actually easier for talented players to slip through the cracks. Here in California, ODP only really has "independent" scouts at National Cup events (in the latter rounds) and the rest is done by well-connected coaches recommending their own players. So if you're a talented player but don't have a well-connected coach or not on a team good enough to make it far into National Cup, you will NEVER get on the ODP radar. Using my previous analogy, the lowest level of the ODP pyramid has become a VIP lounge or "Fight Club". The average player won't even know of its existence. And I don't mean "average" as in ability, but the average participant in CalSouth which could include talented players.
And if you wanted to pursue the club route to the national team, just in SoCal we have Presidio, Coast League, SCDSL, SDDA, ECNL, NPL, and DA. Where does an up and coming player go? Every one of those leagues will have someone who will promote their league as "the way" or "pathway" to elite soccer. We have fractured talent at the top and diluted talent at the secondary levels. If anything the diluted talent at the secondary levels is hurting our overall player pool because you got some good "late bloomers" at the "Silver-Elite" level who would benefit playing other "Silver-Elite" or low "Gold" level teams. But there's no more "Silver Elite". There's just this wide band of Silver/High Bronze" leagues/brackets, which means these late-bloomers end up in purgatory never getting consistent enough competition or attention from the club to breakthrough. It's statistically proven it's often late-bloomers who end up having the most success at the pro levels, but we basically purge our late-bloomers.
Back in my day, *waves cane furiously in air*, the system was flawed but we had a single pyramid for the most part. Most competitive clubs had one team per age group. "Travel Teams" didn't "Travel" unless they were good. You didn't make the team unless you were good. Travel teams had a clear lane where it was designed to lead you to college. ODP was for those that wanted to make a run at the national team or maybe go pro. We had rigorous training but at the same time we didn't have coaches and clubs trying to profit off every avenue of self-expression like "pick-up" games and futsal. I remember one of my coaches had a standing invitation for us to drop in on his Sunday afternoon pickup games if we didn't have our own pickup games in the neighborhood. Something like this would be unheard of now if it didn't come attached with a $25 "drop-in" fee. You also have just about every soccer field and gym in SoCal booked to the hilt, so even if a group of kids wanted to go play a pickup game, the field would be completely full with club teams with field permits getting priority. I guess it's back to FIFA20 on the PS4.
I think it's a lot of these little things, not just Bradenton, that led to a "golden era"-ish 20-25 years ago that we've struggled to recapture since. Unfortunately Pullisic seems more like an anomaly rather than leading edge of a new golden era. His dad was well connected and a Euro Passport allowed him to escape the US youth system to Dortmund at 16.
I don't know what the best system is. Perhaps a combination of the old and new. The technical ability of today's players is FAR FAR better than player's of my day. My son's technical ability at 13 was better than mine at 18. But my creativity and free expression was and still is better than his. He can juggle to 500 on 5 different body parts, but I can beat a Keeper 1v1 countless ways. Even when I watch high level DA matches, I regularly see players make an absolute mess of breakaway situations. Lack of imagination and composure, it's embarrassing.
If I were to take a stab at the solution I would say, consolidate most of these leagues so you have some semblance of a pyramid. Make a clear college pathway and "pro" pathway so even a first year soccer mom understands which she's getting into. Players can pursue both pathways (for as long as it's feasible) but they should be completely separate systems. Let US Soccer or ODP handle the "pro" pathway via open tryouts and camps at the entry levels. Then let the players filter to MLS academies or directly to the youth national teams. No more of these local clubs selling $4,000 Euro trips for the hopes that little Johnny will play for Manchester City or Real Madrid. Clubs have a terrible track record for "pro" placement, so keep the vast majority on the college track. For the few ambitious clubs that want to offer a legit Pro pathway, then they must become a feeder system for a USL club, not just be their T-shirt affiliate.
For all the flaws of the youth system in the 90s, at least we had clarity. We knew as Americans that 99.9999% of us would probably never get paid more than McDonalds money playing soccer if anything at all. Travel team soccer got you into college, ODP allowed you to pursue the dream of being in the Olympics or National team. ODP at the district level and especially the state level threw a lot of cold water at kids who thought they would be the next Romerio, Maradona, Baggio, or Pele. Kids who thought they were the shit, came back whimpering pretty quick in the process if they didn't measure up. But nowadays it seems with all these multi-flight segregated leagues, Lil' Johnny (and more importantly his parents) don't get cold water thrown in their face until much too late. After they've spent thousands of dollars year after year and after the club squeezed every dollar out of them until they became bitter and jaded.
Sorry for the long rant. Just wanted to share my experience. I got too much COVID time on my hands.