You're spot on. Your original post should be the mantra.
Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process
- Thread starter MakeAPlay
- Start date
Thanks! She's headed out of state
dk_b
GOLD
This and @Simisoccerfan's post to which you are responding are incredibly important to parents experiencing this journey with their kids. If kids are being recruited, they are excellent players and may even be among the best on a very good, even elite, team. But the grind of college athletics is something that hits like a ton of bricks and the reality of playing time is like a trough of ice water following those bricks. If you go back through those elite teams from GDA or ECNL and look at those players now as college juniors and seniors and what you are going to see is that while some noteworthy ones have played from the first minute, others have not. Talk to them about playing in youth final fours and being early commits (those were the days of unofficials at any age and middle school or HS frosh players with verbals) and look at how many have played a meaningful number of minutes through their soph or junior years and how many have great relationships with their college coaches.
My daughter's team played solid games against some of those elite SoCal teams (never losing to Surf from the first U12 EGSL event she played in against them (down in San Juan Capistrano - I'm guessing some of the other old timers may have been there), battling against Blues (a noteworthy blow out loss but some really good games as well)) and were recognized by other teams and scouts for the soccer they played. They had a lot of D1 commits (11 or 12, I think, and a couple D2 and D3) but, as they enter their junior years, it's a small handful who have played a lot of minutes. Some aren't playing, several have transferred from their first schools. Hey, it's not uncommon to not play a lot as frosh and sophs (maybe even the norm) but going from a 90 minute player on an elite team to a handful of mins, the occasional start, some games w/o leaving the bench . . . that can be really hard. Especially when you are dealing with school, demanding coaches ("yeah, yeah. Coaches are demanding. Do you really think our kids don't know that?" Yes. I really think they don't have a full grasp of what that means at the college level unless they have a sibling or very, very, close friend who can be fully honest about it), some profs who are understanding and some who couldn't give a single sh*t thinking about your kid's travel commitments, lack of time for studying or just pure exhaustion. Mix in, for these young women and men, covid and injury and a wave of tragedies (not sure if any more but we certainly hear about them a lot more) . . .
I am not one to say, "Make sure they love the school first because the sport may disappear" because I'm of the belief that, for many, a huge part of this big time decision is made because of the sport, the team, the athletic department - that is the group you will be spending most of your time around (their teammates but also other athletes) as they integrate into the campus and they may have made a totally different decision but for the sport. The player should consider whether she or he will be happy as a student but if it weren't for soccer, maybe a totally different campus would make more sense. I want the kids to talk to athletes at the school but, during recruiting, it is really tough to get honest answers (part of human nature) so the discussion, in a sense, needs to be even broader than the specific school. It is to talk with and listen to - REALLY listen to - college soccer players about how hard it can be. Maybe the HS recruit does not want to hear it - I get that - or can't really put herself or himself in that other person's shoes - I get that, too. But when you think of the "grind" that @Mystery Train mentions, even if your kid can't identify until experiencing it, all of you as parents should listen carefully and be ready. Because whether your kid steps on the pitch and plays full 90s or does not see the field for meaningful minutes in important games, the grind is real. The pieces you pick up are certain to be there. Your pride and excitement can get in the way of what your kid is going through (I'm 100% guilty of that). Talk to some of the old timers for candid takes on what their amazing children have gone through. I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK.
Stepping off the soap box and putting it away.
outside!
DA
That would require the NCAA to actually care about the student athletes.
Mystery Train
GOLD
YES!
I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the old teams and those elite players. I've watched many of the same ones and followed what happened after college started.
So true about evaluating the school and what a huge part of the the decision the sport/team/program culture is. One thing I didn't understand is how little of the college life a player gets to experience outside their team. I mean, they're still college students and yes, they will go to parties and events, etc. (NOT during season in her program) but it's almost always with teammates or sometimes other athletes from other sports. In my kid's 2.5 years at school, I don't think she has a solid lasting friendship that she's made outside of soccer or one of the other sports. And that's not because she's shy or stuck up or bent on only hanging with athletes. It's because they all share the same reality and the same physical space for the vast majority of their waking day. And the "NARP's" (Non-Athletic Regular People) as the players call them, often don't understand why she can't join in and do all the stuff they get to do, so it makes it VERY hard to fit into a social group outside of your team. It can be done, but it takes extra effort on top of the exceptional effort they're already expending to be an athlete. So just imagine how shitty your child's school experience would be if things on the team, between teammates, between coaches, between your roommates get tense! AND THEY 100% WILL GET TENSE, GUARANTEED. It's impossible for it not to. Mix in the probability that a kid is away from home for the first time and simultaneously doing the hardest physical work they've ever done in their life and honestly, it's no wonder so many leave the sport!
As I'm typing this, I'm seriously wondering why anyone would choose this path to begin with if they knew what it was really like. I'm trying to stop using the word "quit" when I talk about my DD's former club teammates or her current college teammates when they decide it's the end of soccer for themselves. I've gained a lot of respect for many of the kids that ended up coming to that conclusion because I understand now that they were able to accurately predict what was in their best interests going forward and are benefitting greatly from that choice now. That takes guts, too. Especially when so many people around you (especially parents) have made this such a big deal for your whole life.
Your closing quote puts it best:
"I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK."
dk_b
GOLD
What you describe is precisely why the concept of “make sure your kid will be happy at the school if soccer goes away” can be so imaginary - they can’t really assess that unless they do a very deep dive into the non-athletic culture of a particular school. And how exactly does that happen? And when? And can they REALLY do it independent of imaging themselves as part of the athletic culture?
It’s also why those of us w/kids in HS class of ‘20 have watched our kids miss out on one of the quintessential college experiences in a way that they can never get back (and how just how impactful that loss is): living in the dorms as freshmen. That would have been the BEST chance for them to meet NARPs but b/c of covid, if they were able to live in the dorms, eating in the cafeteria/chilling in common areas/social events/even kicking back in each other’s dorm rooms were not possible to do. That cohort, more than any other, will have their non-sport college experience impacted more than any other (the year ahead of them got half a freshman year pre-covid; the year behind them had a covid impact but much less than the HS ‘20s). So their college world was reduced even more than under “normal” circumstances.
Worth noting is that while a part of this can be applicable to nearly any level of collegiate sports, there can be differences across programs and across levels - top tier programs v mid pack v lower tier, D1 v D2 v D3 v NAIA, etc. Finding the right fit for how your kid is wired - and wired as a 16- or 17-year old v projecting how your kid will be wired as a 19- or 22-year old - is a supreme challenge. And given that it is THEIR decision, not ours, makes that challenge an impossible one. (I will say this about my kid (speaking for myself, not my wife, not my kid): she committed under the old rules and it was too early (she agrees) BUT I think the program/athletic department/academic environment made sense at the time and STILL make a lot of sense for her. If she were not playing soccer, I could imagine her there. )
Mystery Train
GOLD
100%!!!!!!!!!!
Wasn't just athletes. My 2020 kid dropped after a semester of crappy food, living by herself most of the time, and stuck taking classes in her room. All at a crazy large price that she and I were paying. Having a sport might have let her meet others with the same love.
youthsportsuggghhhhgghh
BRONZE
I did like the soap box post!! I however, would say that the school needs to be used at the beginning to make your list of schools (1-20 based solely on the school) you want to make contact with -- then you add the soccer into the mix. They have to work closely because like you say it is a GRIND! If the player is used to being a star and now getting 5 minutes every other game the soccer is going to be tough even if the girls on the team are "nice". Then if they aren't happy in the location of the school it will be that much more difficult!
Then when making the final decision you can make the decision about soccer and will you be happy on the grind in your 10th favorite school because it is your 1st favorite soccer choice or do you want more balance and have your 5/5 school.
Don't get intimidated with the process and don't be afraid to ask all of the questions
I am interested to see how this years 04 group does next year as freshman all over the country!
shso
Again, spot on. Parents reading this thread, do not dismiss anything said. This is the most real assessement of the reality of D1 women's soccer. Let it marinate, as it will help you deal with your DDs situation (whether they play or not) in their first year.
My daughter plays at a D3. Entering her senior year of college. Most players she knows who stretched into a D1 school (either D1 in general or tried to get to that elite D1 program they were probably not really good enough to get on the pitch for that program) quit or never saw the field and/or transferred. While she has started all 3 years at a winning D3 program and continues to enjoy the game. All college athletes put in a ton of time and make a lot of sacrifices, and when they see they will not likely be able to get playing time, that is hard to keep putting in all the effort. I believe parents do their kids a huge disservice when they let their egos help drive their kids’ decisions (e.g., I want to be able to say my daughter plays in the Pac12).
We know we influence them, and they generally trust us. My advice to any parent and athlete, maybe take the program offer that you know you are good enough to get playing time at a school she likes. If you and/or your child cannot be objective about ability to get on the field, find someone you trust to tell you truth (Club coach, another parent who has been through the process, etc). Ask questions and encourage them to give you answers you may not want to hear (e.g., “your child is really good, but they may not ever play for a Pac12 school, but they will be able to play in Big West.). Some of this also comes from the schools recruiting your player. If most conversations are with Big West schools, and only one Pac12 shows interest in her, it may be a stretch. Most college players will not make a living from soccer, so why not help them find a university they like and a team they will get the chance to play the game they love. Most of the players leaving I lay the blame on the parents‘ poor advice.
One other factor to keep in mind is there can be a coach change before your player arrives for her freshman year. If you commit June after Sophomore year then you have two more years before you arrive for college. I think there were over 30 coaching changes this year, maybe more. Everything is great with the school, the scholarship offer and the team and then everything can tune upside down if the school changes the coach. It is a twist to keep in mind and be prepared for how you want to handle that should it happen
dk_b
GOLD
The coach that recruited my daughter was out 5 days before NLI signing day (we were on our way to AZ for an ECNL showcase, got a heads up on the way to the airport and the news was public by the time we touched down). She did sign and they did not hire the replacement for a bit (maybe 6 weeks, I can’t remember). That can happen, as we experienced - and for a position like GK, it is really common for GK coaches to turn over so if your kid is an early commit, very good chance that the keeper coach will be different by the time she or he arrives
Yes
yes, I am a fan of D3 schools as well. I would much prefer my DD play on a good d3 school, play for conference championships and having time and flexibility to live a full life than having the D1 grind on a low level, crappy school that never a wins any games or competing for anything post season and many of those sacrificing academic quality along the way
Yes, and what you commited to going into you Junior year in HS looks nothing like what you get when you arrive. A coach change like that can change style of play, recruiting, starters, scholarship offers etc- what you were told ends up not happening and you may have to make big decisions. There is no protection for the player so it is helpful to have backup plans if the coach change becomes a problem and to just be aware that the verbal commitment isn’t magical to secure your experience for when it comes down to arriving on campus.
Mystery Train
GOLD
Yep. Great point. I would expand that to D2 and NAIA as well. There are far more players CAPABLE of playing D1 than there are D1 starting positions. So that means except for the top 1%, you're at the mercy of so many factors out of your control to see the field. If you're not going pro or playing for a national team, wouldn't you rather go somewhere where your reward for hard work will mean a good chance at playing time in your 4 years?
Here's something that I'm sure your daughter can vouch for: I bet it's a GRIND for her in her D3 program as well. Soccer coaches, no matter the division, ultimately get paid to coach soccer (which means trying to win games) and no institution, no matter if it's a Power 5 D1 or NAIA, is going to leave a coach in place who loses constantly. So that means no matter what level your kid plays, the coach is going to take it seriously because their livelihood depends on it. Which means he/she is going to be demanding and push the players to perform. None of these levels employ these coaches to run an intramural program. None of them give out playing time AYSO style. So they ALL work their player's tails off. The real difference at D1 is player size, athleticism, and depth (and depending on the school facilities). But the grind is pretty much the same. I've seen plenty of players wash out in small schools at D3 and D2 because they thought it would be more laid back. But those coaches get fired just the same way. You're not going to have many 5'10 forwards with track speed in D3 or D2, but guess what? You're still going to run the beep test and puke your guts out to pass the fitness test. You're still going to get benched for breaking team rules or underperforming. During my kid's recruitment, I talked with coaches from all levels and they all said the same thing: no HS kid is prepared for how hard they're going to have to work and the discipline required for it.
dk_b
GOLD
I agree with pretty much everything you have written, @Mystery Train. We have friends and family playing at every level on the women's side and we have seen players stop playing, be kicked off, be strongly encouraged to transfer . . . at pretty much every level. And we have seen coaches canned at every level. We have also seen late bloomers and/or players who continue to put in the work and get rewarded by increased playing time as they've shown that they can compete at the right level (it might start with - can you give us 5 mins at the end of a half w/o exposing us too much to can you give us a full half to can you start to can you play 80 or 90 in a meaningful game?). There is a player at one of the best programs in the country, a program that gets replenished with national team players year in and year out, who kept putting in the work and was one of the top in minutes last season as a Junior (#2 on her team, I think) after barely playing in her first two years - in some ways a player like that gives up more than most since she's not getting much $, could easily be "enjoying" a different college experience and, yet, still grinds it out.
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Does anybody have numbers around college soccer players who actually stay with the sport for four years? Or maybe average freshman recruiting class sizes where you can infer the amount of attrition? Feels like when colleges announce new recruiting classes the numbers are in the 8 to 12 player range.