Noted. Honestly I found others far worse than MAP. Push-up and The Outlaw for example were truly toxic and added nothing to the forum. As well as EOL.
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Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process
- Thread starter MakeAPlay
- Start date
Yeah, he was a douche. A wife beating, immigrant that pissed and moaned about white people and lack of opportunity for "POC" that got a scholarship to play football at UCLA. Then his daughter became an "advocate" when she also had as much privilege as anybody. There was legitimate advice at times but the rest of it was him wanting to fight everyone.
Mystery Train
GOLD
THIS ^^^^
My first reaction to reply was to just answer, "No."
Dk_b's answer is so much more accurate though. Like his older DD, mine just simply willed her way to play in college, so I don't think I'd go back and change anything, or even if I tried, it probably would have played out the same way. However, the experience of watching college soccer up close and personal has definitely changed my opinion about what I do with my younger child and the advice I give other parents. Generally speaking, I would say, "DON'T DO IT!" If the parent is considering scholarship money, level of soccer, quality of school, and the financial efficacy of investing more money in club soccer, it is simply a losing formula for the vast, vast majority of players. There's plenty of advice here about investing your money in college savings and paying for tutors to get better grades and how that's a wiser use of money if you're focused on just those factors.
My son is a good athlete, and in many ways more natural than my soccer player DD. But he does not love the grind the way she does (at least not yet). So my thought is that for him, if I pay for club sports, it is just for the activity and fun and life lessons. It is in no way an investment for college. For her, I probably could have not played chase for the high level clubs and leagues and she'd have made it work out anyway. Follow Dk-b's post and you can't go wrong.
oh canada
GOLD
You have much more control and flexibility over individual sports than team sports--scheduling, time, vacationing, training etc. Tennis, swimming, track/field, golf, etc. I'd recommend seeing if your kid likes/loves an individual sport before team sports. Even baseball and softball can be learned and trained for a lot more on your own than soccer.
pitchplease
SILVER ELITE
interesting article from soccer wire: https://www.soccerwire.com/soccer-b...wont-prevent-roster-shrink-in-college-soccer/
Timextouches
BRONZE
Seeing a ton of commits in last few weeks. Having been around this a long long time let me offer a gentle reminder: take all your visits. The rules changed to encourage more robust and informed decision making. The transfer rate is sky high. Roster limits are real. No reason to commit without seeing all your choices up front and gathering as much info as possible.
Some coaches will also use the transfer portal as an additional method to slim down rosters, losing players in the transfer portal but not adding any from the transfer unless it's a vital player.
After going through the process with two players (each a very different path) here are some lessons learned:
1. College coaches can quit or be replaced without any notice and it will change everything about the program you have committed to.
2. Coaches will say all sorts of things during the recruiting process that they may or may not follow through on. Be prepared to manage whatever reality you encounter and make the best of it.
3. Your club coach is your best resource and support during this whole process so make sure you have a club coach who thinks you're amazing and has the right connections and relationships with college coaches. It is those personal relationships that your club coach has with the college coaches that open doors. They can also guide you on what program might be the best fit because they know you and they know the college coach.
4. Being on an ECNL team does matter. Yes, you will hear lots of individuals say, "I was in this other league and I still got recruited" but those opportunities are only here and there. It is VERY difficult to get the attention of college coaches if you are not on an ECNL team. You won't get the chance to be considered. That's the honest truth.
5. Pick a school that you love and make sure you like the vibe of the current players at the school. The culture and and the vibe of the team is really important. That is what will impact you as a player for 4 years, day in and day out. Check out the social media accounts of the players, try to spend time connecting with the current players before you arrive, and make sure it is a fit.
6. It matters more that your team is competitive not what league or level it is. It is much more fun to play on a D3 team that is winning their conference and making it into the D3 national tournament than playing on a mid or low-level D1 team that will never have a shot to win their conference or go anywhere other than lose game after game.
7. It doesn't matter how amazing you are as a player, some coaches have their favorites that play the majority of minutes every game and leave you sitting on the bench. It leaves all the other players and parents confused about what the coaches see when they clearly aren't performing in games and are just not very good.
8. It is important that you advocate strongly for yourself with the coach when you need feedback or have questions. Learn to be brave and assertive, and come with facts and stats to support what you are talking about, not just about how you feel. Practice having logical arguments without being emotional.
9. Maintain a positive attitude and be a good teammate. There are other players on the team and they deserve to have a positive culture to be in. Everyone contributes to that and has a responsibility to their teammates. Don't yell at your teammates on the field. If you have something to say, speak to your teammate in private and with respect. Nothing looks worse than players yelling at each other in the middle of a game. It is also important to be kind. You never know what someone else is dealing with and you could be the difference in your teammate's life when they need support and kindness.
10. Never tolerate an unhealthy or abusive environment. You will likely not get any satisfaction about speaking up because coaches, ADs, and schools will protect themselves and gaslight you but you will know that you spoke up and stood your ground to try to bring light to something that is wrong.
11. Parents, leave your players alone and don't nag or criticize their play. They have arrived at their destination and let them learn to manage their environment without corrections and criticisms and figure out what is best for them. The situation is stressful enough for the players and they get enough of that from their coaching staff and the environment.
12. Going to games in-person is amazing but if your player is far away and you don't have the finances to travel all the time you can still watch the live streaming of games. Big schools have all their games on ESPN+ or other platforms and small D3 schools also have livestreaming services so you won't miss a thing.
13. Don't let coaches bully players about their fitness. Sometimes there are medical issues that are causing problems so that needs to be investigated and not just assume the player isn't trying hard enough.
14. Don't be afraid to make a change if you end up on a college team and it is a bad situation. The transfer portal is there for a reason. However, also, be sure that going that route is the only option as the transfer portal is a bit of a crap shoot. There are many complicated factors in finding a new spot for yourself and there are no guarantees. You could also transfer and end up in another situation that isn't great so be wise and investigate the situations thoroughly and have honest direct conversations with coaches about expectations.
1. College coaches can quit or be replaced without any notice and it will change everything about the program you have committed to.
2. Coaches will say all sorts of things during the recruiting process that they may or may not follow through on. Be prepared to manage whatever reality you encounter and make the best of it.
3. Your club coach is your best resource and support during this whole process so make sure you have a club coach who thinks you're amazing and has the right connections and relationships with college coaches. It is those personal relationships that your club coach has with the college coaches that open doors. They can also guide you on what program might be the best fit because they know you and they know the college coach.
4. Being on an ECNL team does matter. Yes, you will hear lots of individuals say, "I was in this other league and I still got recruited" but those opportunities are only here and there. It is VERY difficult to get the attention of college coaches if you are not on an ECNL team. You won't get the chance to be considered. That's the honest truth.
5. Pick a school that you love and make sure you like the vibe of the current players at the school. The culture and and the vibe of the team is really important. That is what will impact you as a player for 4 years, day in and day out. Check out the social media accounts of the players, try to spend time connecting with the current players before you arrive, and make sure it is a fit.
6. It matters more that your team is competitive not what league or level it is. It is much more fun to play on a D3 team that is winning their conference and making it into the D3 national tournament than playing on a mid or low-level D1 team that will never have a shot to win their conference or go anywhere other than lose game after game.
7. It doesn't matter how amazing you are as a player, some coaches have their favorites that play the majority of minutes every game and leave you sitting on the bench. It leaves all the other players and parents confused about what the coaches see when they clearly aren't performing in games and are just not very good.
8. It is important that you advocate strongly for yourself with the coach when you need feedback or have questions. Learn to be brave and assertive, and come with facts and stats to support what you are talking about, not just about how you feel. Practice having logical arguments without being emotional.
9. Maintain a positive attitude and be a good teammate. There are other players on the team and they deserve to have a positive culture to be in. Everyone contributes to that and has a responsibility to their teammates. Don't yell at your teammates on the field. If you have something to say, speak to your teammate in private and with respect. Nothing looks worse than players yelling at each other in the middle of a game. It is also important to be kind. You never know what someone else is dealing with and you could be the difference in your teammate's life when they need support and kindness.
10. Never tolerate an unhealthy or abusive environment. You will likely not get any satisfaction about speaking up because coaches, ADs, and schools will protect themselves and gaslight you but you will know that you spoke up and stood your ground to try to bring light to something that is wrong.
11. Parents, leave your players alone and don't nag or criticize their play. They have arrived at their destination and let them learn to manage their environment without corrections and criticisms and figure out what is best for them. The situation is stressful enough for the players and they get enough of that from their coaching staff and the environment.
12. Going to games in-person is amazing but if your player is far away and you don't have the finances to travel all the time you can still watch the live streaming of games. Big schools have all their games on ESPN+ or other platforms and small D3 schools also have livestreaming services so you won't miss a thing.
13. Don't let coaches bully players about their fitness. Sometimes there are medical issues that are causing problems so that needs to be investigated and not just assume the player isn't trying hard enough.
14. Don't be afraid to make a change if you end up on a college team and it is a bad situation. The transfer portal is there for a reason. However, also, be sure that going that route is the only option as the transfer portal is a bit of a crap shoot. There are many complicated factors in finding a new spot for yourself and there are no guarantees. You could also transfer and end up in another situation that isn't great so be wise and investigate the situations thoroughly and have honest direct conversations with coaches about expectations.
Very insightful comments from your experiences with your players. Really appreciate sharing the thoughts above. Very helpful, but could you elaborate a bit more on 4. Being on an ECNL team does matter….
I believe when you mentioned “other league”, you are implying GA. With my DD, I am contemplating moving to at least to an average ECNL team versus staying with more of the top GA team now. As mentioned, I do see more and more of the top players in GA clubs are moving or at least seriously considering ECNL clubs for the sake of ECNL.
I don’t know much about how the GA is today. It didn’t start out very strong and was kind of a desperate attempt to make something of your club if you were not in ECNL. It could be worthwhile now. At the end of the day you have to go back to #3, does your club coach have solid connections with good college coaches? It happens though that the ECNL coaches are usually the ones that have the most pull with the college coaches.
My younger player had the joy of going through the age change, teams having to break up because of it, the first year of the DA and then returning to ECNL watching the collapse of the DA because it was an all around bad idea and poorly run. It could be that the GA is decent for recruiting but it still doesn’t have as solid of a reputation. The biggest issue is what college showcases your team can get into and what field you are playing on at these showcases. Older player, not on an ECNL team, went to the college showcase in Vegas. Her team played on a field that was out in the middle of nowhere without a college coach to be seen. Didn’t even have water for sale at the field. We could have been lost in the desert and no one would have known. That was our first hard lesson. The ECNL teams were playing on the Betty Wilson Field with 50+ college coaches on the side lines. Coaches would promise to come watch her play saying they were looking for a player in her position and then just not show up. It is probably better from my perspective to be on an average ECNL team instead of a top GA team but again my experience at the club level was when the GA had just been formed and it was a waste.
This right here is a truth bomb. I know one kid that had a verbal to a very nice college because of the relation her coach had with the college coach. The dad saw bad behavior from said coach and pulled his dd from his team. The next week, the college verbal was pulled, and the kid was sad at first. However, it was all a blessing because the college coach got fired for taking bribes.
WatchthemPlay
BRONZE
I have gone through this same thing with 2 kids.
More D1 players definitely come from ECNL clubs overall. However, top GA starters get recruited to top schools too. The exact same scouts go to ECNL and GA showcases. The top schools will always gravitate at showcases and playoffs to watch the top ECNL and GA teams with a history of success. It will always require more work and a longer timeline if your kid isn’t a standout starter on a top ECNL or GA team and their goal is a solid D1.
Stay or go to the team (ECNL or GA) with the highest ranking where there is a coach you trust/advocates for kid (they will be the first contact for college coaches), your kid is playing a guaranteed good amount and your kid is happy. Playing a lot should be the #1 factor. I would personally not change from GA to ECNL just because it’s ECNL or vice versa. I would change if there is a team that is offering more of the above factors and your kid is freshman year or older. Also check the roster size…too many teams that hold 21 kids and rotate them around to different teams or don’t play them particular games.
Another thing…be objective about your kids level, what team is going to promote them the most based upon this and what type of colleges will be interested. You aren’t going to be recruited if you aren’t playing and a mid ECNL club doesn’t hold enough name recognition to get her recruited as a bench player if the goal is to play at a solid D1 school. A mid GA team has an even sharper drop off than a mid ECNL team.
I do want to emphasize that the goal doesn’t have to be a D1 school. It matters more about the culture of the program, the style of play, the coach, and the quality of the education. There are some amazing D3 schools that offer a lot and are very competitive. Be open to options and look beyond the division level. Player at D3 school had a much better overall experience than the player at the D1 school
I have a few friends who are going through the decision process and it's not easy. I told them a while ago to read this thread and low and behold, your wisdom from experience has been very helpful to them. The old recruiting tactics sure did a number on the mental abuse so many young players have had to deal with. Most experts of soccer say that soccer is 80% mental. I wanted to play basketball at UCLA and then be drafted by the Lakers. This was my dream in Middle School. As a freshman at Laguna, I was called up to play in our annual Christmas Tournament. My dreams all came to a crashing halt during Christmas in 1981. We played the Long Beach Jack Rabbits, and I watched from the bench what "best of the best" truly is and D1. I did end up playing NAIA level in hoops and that's where I belonged, and I was very happy. All Conference and started every game and helped our team play make it to the Semi's in playoffs. I'm still in the record book for assists in one season.
Problem is most parents and kids aren’t honest with themselves. Kids struggling to even start on their club team think they belong at a top 25 D1. Then you get players that get recruited to top schools that you know their skills didn’t get them there but some connection with DOC or parent . Then everyone thinks if they can get there why can’t I?
And I want to add just because a kid is one of the best in their club team doesn’t equate to success in college. You see kids that are one of the better players on their club team but lack the basic athleticism or they get favoritism because of the coach or DOC get to college and they just can’t hang physically or mentally or their parents pushed them through all of it. Some have been successful in club because their parents or coach have been holding their hand through it all and once they have to compete all alone in college they can’t hang
WatchthemPlay
BRONZE
I have to agree with this 99% of the time. It’s a business and recruits are an investment. There is too much time and money invested to not pick the best (and coaching jobs on the line!). The only exception might be a kid on a very minimal scholarship given an opportunity due to connections. This isn’t going to be the top 5 recruited. This will be later in the process. With the new roster limits of 28 for P4, this is going to be even more rare.
Girls College recruiting has changed so much in the last 4 years that advise given from those that went through it all a couple of years ago just doesn't apply any more.
- GA is now considered by recruiters
- NIL changes everything
- 28 player rosters + full scholorships
- Transfer Portal
- NWSL getting rid of the draft
Potential changes that are on the horizon
- Switch to school year from birth year
- College getting rid of unlimited subs
Overall the changes are all for the better but they dramatically affect how players are recruited.
- GA is now considered by recruiters
- NIL changes everything
- 28 player rosters + full scholorships
- Transfer Portal
- NWSL getting rid of the draft
Potential changes that are on the horizon
- Switch to school year from birth year
- College getting rid of unlimited subs
Overall the changes are all for the better but they dramatically affect how players are recruited.