President Joe Biden

I mean that's precisely what Reaganomics was.

.

Right. And if we've hit the point where the pendulum starts swinging back it becomes a question of how far? Personally I would say going back to a model that was already rejected... is maybe not the solution we are looking for.

So while I'm not saying it's not time for a correction in course. I just would like to see some new 'better' answers.
 
Bothsides-ism. If you aren’t going to correlate the two, then don’t spend the next two paragraphs doing exactly that. Why is it that people are so compelled to criticize BLM when magats overran and looted the U.S. Capitol? It’s pathetic to argue that it was bad the magats did it, but hey look others do it it so....

You are also wrong that no one’s life is so bad that rioting is the answer, although that is beside the point. You never had to live a life that started in poverty because of your skin color, grew up denied the same educational and then employment opportunities due to your skin color, have been tepeatedly mistreated by law enforcement because of your skin color, and then keep hearing from people like you after you put down your cocktail and step away from your backyard grill in the OC long enough to tell them that it can’t possibly have been that bad, you need to get over it.

Actually I was born in the IE, dirt poor. So the feel guilty stuff doesn't work on me.

Life is hard. Your owed nothing. However you were lucky enough to have been born in a country where hard work and a little risk taking will allow you to rise as far as you want to go. That's the world I want to get back to.
 
Sadly people don't do enough of this and if they truly looked at this, they'd see that folks like Sanders and AOC, are the minority who seem to truly care about their constituents.
You don't want them in charge. Sanders has always been a fan of the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nicaragua, etc. The policies those countries had/have terrible results for the people. AOC is as economically illiterate as Sanders. Her proposals will not help people in the least.
 
Well this is a desperate and sad attempt to change the subject coming from a magat who really, really doesn’t want to talk about the subject at hand. His buddies just looted the Capitol but, hey look, China!
Subject at hand?

Ok try this.

During the summer riots Dem politicians either encouraged or remained silent. It suited their interests.

At the same time Repubs said enough of this. Protest is fine, riots are not. Silence from the left. As a matter of fact the House dems in unity all refused to vote on a resolution condemning the violence.

The other day violence/riot at the capital. Dems now are outraged. Repubs immediately condemned the actions.

One party you might say is consistent on its condemnation of violence. The other only does so when the violence is not committed by their constituents.

Violence/riots have no place. It doesn't matter what the politics are. The standard should be we as a nation should not accept violence or make excuses of it. Unfortunately over the summer months I saw lots of politicians and news organizations excuse violence. When those groups now try to take the high ground...screw them. They have no credibility on the issue.

That said...violence/riots are not acceptable. Prosecute those who broke into the capital grounds. I would like to see the summer rioters prosecuted as well. Almost none were. Matter of fact many Dem groups spent money bailing out people arrested.

You seem to like to ignore your own double standard amigo.
 
You don't want them in charge. Sanders has always been a fan of the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nicaragua, etc. The policies those countries had/have terrible results for the people. AOC is as economically illiterate as Sanders. Her proposals will not help people in the least.

It’s almost like you’ve got a Russian handler who started freaking out that the reliably pro-magat youth soccer forum has suddenly gone sideways.
 
Well this is a desperate and sad attempt to change the subject coming from a magat who really, really doesn’t want to talk about the subject at hand. His buddies just looted the Capitol but, hey look, China!
Might I also remind you of this?

I didn't see Dem politicians condemning this as well.

The left has been doing this for a long time. And all we get is excuses from the mainstream press and the Dem politicians.

 
Subject at hand?

Ok try this.

During the summer riots Dem politicians either encouraged or remained silent. It suited their interests.

At the same time Repubs said enough of this. Protest is fine, riots are not. Silence from the left. As a matter of fact the House dems in unity all refused to vote on a resolution condemning the violence.

The other day violence/riot at the capital. Dems now are outraged. Repubs immediately condemned the actions.

One party you might say is consistent on its condemnation of violence. The other only does so when the violence is not committed by their constituents.

Violence/riots have no place. It doesn't matter what the politics are. The standard should be we as a nation should not accept violence or make excuses of it. Unfortunately over the summer months I saw lots of politicians and news organizations excuse violence. When those groups now try to take the high ground...screw them. They have no credibility on the issue.

That said...violence/riots are not acceptable. Prosecute those who broke into the capital grounds. I would like to see the summer rioters prosecuted as well. Almost none were. Matter of fact many Dem groups spent money bailing out people arrested.

You seem to like to ignore your own double standard amigo.

It’s democrats’ fault that magats stormed the Capitol! You heard it from @Desert Hound first!

Dude, even McConnell, Lady G and half the cabinet have jumped ship. Do you really want to be the last trumpanzee on the tangerine titanic?
 
Mob violence is mob violence, I couldn't give a shit about the underlying reasons. It's disturbing that some of you can attempt to rationalize it under the "why", unfortunately idiot politicians in Oregon and Washington (state and DC) did the same thing and gave up control of some of their cities to mob rule. To me that's the biggest crime along with Trump inciting violence whether it was directly or with a wink and a nod.

Yes, the protests were different and should be evaluated as such.
 
Might I also remind you of this?

I didn't see Dem politicians condemning this as well.

The left has been doing this for a long time. And all we get is excuses from the mainstream press and the Dem politicians.


Someone lit up a limo four years ago, so of course it’s not so bad to stage a coup.
 
Mob violence is mob violence, I couldn't give a shit about the underlying reasons. It's disturbing that some of you can attempt to rationalize it under the "why", unfortunately idiot politicians in Oregon and Washington (state and DC) did the same thing and gave up control of some of their cities to mob rule. To me that's the biggest crime along with Trump inciting violence whether it was directly or with a wink and a nod.

Yes, the protests were different and should be evaluated as such.

Yes, you have already established quite clearly that you’re fine with bigotry.
 
We really need to stop working so much with China. Trump was right on this one.

Right now major companies are fighting against legislation related to labor conditions in China. They don't want the legislation to pass. They like their factories in China.

Lets stop transferring tech to them. Let us stop having them as a major component of our supply chain for many rather important things.

They are close to finishing up work on their 3rd carrier with a 4th carrier already under construction.

They are a communist dictatorship. Lots of people seem to forget that.

Meanwhile in a corner of China....it is not just internment camps.

"China is forcing women to be sterilised or fitted with contraceptive devices in Xinjiang in an apparent attempt to limit the population of Muslim Uighurs, according to new research."


And just the other day...the Chinese Embassy in the US tweeted this little lovely thing related to what the above talks about. How charming that these women are now free....

View attachment 9889
This is certainly abhorrent. People ask why the Nazis were "allowed" to create their concentration camps and why the world stood by. Ask no more. Its more important to people to be able to buy an iPhone or Samsung at its current price point than say no to those (and every other) product which supports this. Its more important to the likes of Apple to build their hardware there and maintain their 60% margin, than to just say no. Heaven forbid their stock price might take a hit or that they may have to delve into their $250B+ in cash reserves. Heaven forbid people's 401Ks will take a hit to do the right thing.

People want to have their cake & eat it. They want the right things done ... just as long as they don't have to put any skin in the game. Its risk free morals vs "not my problem".

So 100% on China and this despicable behavior, now I'll see your China and raise you with Climate Change.
 
Do you think Trump promised to take down that Tweet about how ugly Mrs. Cruz is- so long as he supports Trump during this dark period? But really though, what type of man fights for a president who still has tweets ripping on his wife publicly out there on his twitter page. What wouldn't this clown do to for power if he's okay with that.

Cruz is a seemingly smart, well spoken individual. But damn when it comes to political game theory... some of his maneuvering really leaves me scratching my head? Sort of like that time he cheered on a government shutdown, I just don't see the endgame here.


In my youth I spent a lot of time debating with Ted. Reading the political winds wasn't exactly his strong suit.....
 
This is certainly abhorrent. People ask why the Nazis were "allowed" to create their concentration camps and why the world stood by. Ask no more. Its more important to people to be able to buy an iPhone or Samsung at its current price point than say no to those (and every other) product which supports this. Its more important to the likes of Apple to build their hardware there and maintain their 60% margin, than to just say no. Heaven forbid their stock price might take a hit or that they may have to delve into their $250B+ in cash reserves. Heaven forbid people's 401Ks will take a hit to do the right thing.

People want to have their cake & eat it. They want the right things done ... just as long as they don't have to put any skin in the game. Its risk free morals vs "not my problem".

So 100% on China and this despicable behavior, now I'll see your China and raise you with Climate Change.

I don’t care why the Warsaw ghetto uprising happened, it was wrong of the jews to riot against the Nazis. The reason for the violence doesn’t matter. Same with Nat Turner. These minorities just need to pipe down. It’s not so bad, even if law enforcement keeps depriving them of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness because of their skin color and national origin.
 
I'm not sure if impeachment/25th amendment is a good strategy or not, but I don't think you can compare what happened at the capital to BLM protests. I know it's easy to fall into that, especially for right leaning MAGA types, but it's apples and oranges. You have one group that was protesting/rioting due to 100s of years of systemic racism and police brutality versus a group of brainwashed MAGA/Qanon types instigated by a standing president of the US. Trump has literally been grooming these people. It's just not the same no matter how you try and paint it. This isn't justifying violence or looting, @EOTL is correct in saying the "Why" is very important here.

What you are essentially saying our civic society is over....people are justified going into residences at night at waking them up, burning businesses, attacking dinners and politicians to confront them about issues, using violence so long as the cause is justified. People will disagree with what is justified. Your prescription is nothing less than a call for civil war.
 
In my youth I spent a lot of time debating with Ted. Reading the political winds wasn't exactly his strong suit.....

Why don’t you tell us abut the term paper you wrote about it? I would have loved to have seen the two of you debate why masks don’t work. Your argument would have been “yep, I agree with Ted, even if his dad killed JFK.”
 
Yes, you have already established quite clearly that you’re fine with bigotry.
You should really understand the meaning of words and how they apply to you before you go throwing them around frivolously.

Oh, and thanks for helping me kill time while I'm waiting in the repair lounge of the dealership.

big·ot·ry
/ˈbiɡətrē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.



 
It’s democrats’ fault that magats stormed the Capitol! You heard it from @Desert Hound first!

Dude, even McConnell, Lady G and half the cabinet have jumped ship. Do you really want to be the last trumpanzee on the tangerine titanic?
That fact that you think I said or even implied it was the Dems fault rioters did what they did the other day says a lot about your "intellect".
 
You should really understand the meaning of words and how they apply to you before you go throwing them around frivolously.

Oh, and thanks for helping me kill time while I'm waiting in the repair lounge of the dealership.

big·ot·ry
/ˈbiɡətrē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.



I don’t expect bigots to accept that they are, my only goal is to mock them for sport and the enjoyment of non-racists.

BTW, can you go through one more time how BLM protesters are partly at fault a bunch of white supremacists invading the US Capitol as part of an attempted coup? I’m not following this “non-bigoted” theory. Did they get too uppity a while back after democratic government didn’t do enough to put them back in their place, so it was obviously time to overthrow the government?
 
In case anyone wants to go down memory lane.

By the way these boards are interesting.

During the summer months there was a certain group of people making excuses for the summer riots. Another group here condemned the riots.

Today the group that made excuses over the summer now are mad about the riots. The people who were mad about the riots in the summer are also mad about the riot a couple of days ago.

Interesting how that works.

 
What you are essentially saying our civic society is over....people are justified going into residences at night at waking them up, burning businesses, attacking dinners and politicians to confront them about issues, using violence so long as the cause is justified. People will disagree with what is justified. Your prescription is nothing less than a call for civil war.

I think you're reaching a bit here. My point is that you cannot honestly compare the BLM protests with what happened at the capital. They are different. Nowhere have I justified violence, looting, etc. Let me put it this way. It's incredibly easy for me to be empathetic towards people who deal with racism on a daily basis, people who have suffered for 100s of years. On the other hand, I struggle to do that with MAGA/Qanon folks. That's not to say I have zero empathy for them, but rather, there's just this huge gap between the two groups.

But, you raise a good point. Perhaps, we've never had a civic society. Perhaps it's always been smoke and mirrors. It's hard for something to be over that never existed. I mean when there's a clear discrepancy in police enforcement between the event on Wednesday versus many of the BLM protests, that's pretty telling. Civics kind of goes out the window when you fear you're going be shot by every police officer that walks by.
 
To @Grace T.'s point, it's not just Trump though. I blame Reagan and his dismantling of sound social programs such as public education, failed trickle down economics, or his tax overhaul. Reagan did do some good things, but a lot of his policies had a significant negative impact on where we are today. Obviously Dems could've fixed these problems and didn't. They're to blame as well.

I just wish folks would look at politicians and ask "What's in it for them?". Sadly people don't do enough of this and if they truly looked at this, they'd see that folks like Sanders and AOC, are the minority who seem to truly care about their constituents. Most politicians are grifters and have some angle that benefits themselves, both dems and repubs.


Reagan, like Trump, is just a symptom. An even bigger symptom was Bill Clinton. Their policies hurried this along but they are just riding certain trends in American society that unfolded since Vietnam/Great Society:

1. Foreign Wars. The Cold War and Reagan managed to unite the right and the centrist left in favor of what the left calls the "military-industrial" complex. When it ended, these jobs began to collapse (see the eroding of the aircraft industry in California). But Republicans and Democrats continued to push nation building abroad which tired the American people of foreign wars.
2. Elitism. In the 50s society was a lot more mobile (at least for whites) and it was common to see a person build an industry by their bootstraps or a man to marry a secretary from another class. It's fiction, but in "Mad Men", Peggy Olsen graduates from secretarial school....now her job requires a top 20 college degree. Women began to enter the work force, and women (not wanting to throw away their effort at work) typically want to marry either someone of the same or similar status. Elites began to marry other elites, the college rat race began as colleges became gatekeepers, a society which valued technocratic experts arose. It's more likely a white woman graduating from an Ivy League school will marry an African American male graduating from such school than a white man rural farmer in Kansas. The elites have a vested interest in protecting this meritocrisy for themselves (which is why so many of us are in the youth soccer pay to play/college rat race).
3. Globalism. The elites have more in common with other elites in Hong Kong, Paris, or Moscow than a farmer in Iowa. Their concerns (on immigration, trade, monetary policy, war) are globalist. The D alliance on immigration, for example, is the rich which wants the cheap labor, and D politicians which want the vote, and the newcomers that want to bring over more friends and family or secure those who are already here. Those concerns often cut against the concerts of people lower on the economic totem pole. As society becomes more automated as well, there will be less well paying jobs at the bottom end and the pie has begun to shrink everywhere in the new globalist economy.
4. The Great Society. On the lower end of the government spectrum, the social safety net (separate and apart from arguments as to its necessity and proper structure) caused the weakening of family structures and the work ethic. It makes more rational sense for a woman with kids on welfare to go it alone than to share that pie with a husband who might be a drag on the family and throw away the money.
5. Racism. I'm a 3x minority....I don't believe America is "systemically racist"....I ascribed to the belief that everyone, regardless of skin color, is a little bit racist. But I also think there's racism out there, and it's often times the easiest reason for people to see why their lives may be in the crapper (rather than all the more complicated economic and societal stuff). And the history of America from it's founding through the civil rights movement was overwhelmingly concerned with racism and race.
6. The Collapse of Institutions. Back in Reagan's time, religion was the corner stone of the Reagan coalition. Trump just gives religion lip service, and the Mormons are uncomfortable with this new aggressive stance taken by the Republican Party. The churches, particularly the main line institutions, have collapsed. On the left, it's been replaced with wokeism/post-modernism. Other institutions as well have collapsed and been discredited. The pandemic for example has trashed the reputation of our health experts and teachers among a large segment of the population. The police are in disrepute among certain elements of the left. The press has trashed itself, and the tech industry is going down the way with it. The things which held us together are no longer there.
7. The Internet. Smashed gatekeepers to information (something which causes rage among the elites), and anonymity has led to inflammatory ways of dealing with each other.

All this to say, Trump's the dam, not the river....he's a symptom....things are going to get worse short of inspired leadership. The D reactions haven't exactly filled me with confidence, and frankly I'm not sure Biden is up to it...it would require a Lincolnesque figure. Hope I'm wrong.
 
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