Hüsker Dü
DA
You believe trump. At least previously there was honor amongst our elected thieves, now like he always does trump pits one side against the other.
President Joe Biden
- Thread starter tenacious
- Start date
Hüsker Dü
DA
The timeout most definitely saved lives.
A violent, angry mob forced out police and destroyed property. Multiple people died as a result.
In the last 12 months, this has happened multiple times, by mobs of both the right and the left. Husker Du can remind you of the right wing ones, and Grace T. can remind you of the left wing ones. And they'll both be right.
This is not a time to criticize the mob for their political leanings. Now is the time to criticize the mob for being a mob.
In the last 12 months, this has happened multiple times, by mobs of both the right and the left. Husker Du can remind you of the right wing ones, and Grace T. can remind you of the left wing ones. And they'll both be right.
This is not a time to criticize the mob for their political leanings. Now is the time to criticize the mob for being a mob.
Yeah, sure. Only one group has tried to overthrow the government of the US. Only one group has violently stormed the US Capitol. There is only one leader who incited it to happen. And you’re whining that a group that has been persecuted since the beginning of American history and are murdered by law enforcement based on their skin color burned down a Wendy’s. Not the same. Not even close.
Of course Karen, er Grace, T. points to BLM protests, because that is the only way to rationalize her desire to overthrow the government. I can’t wait until she tries to tell people she knows what she’s talking about because she once had an internship also wrote a paper in law school. Let me know when you’ve gotten past rationalizing the overthrow of the US government because people fight race discrimination. What a joke.
And one more thing. It is absolutely the time to criticize these domestic terrorists and the sycophants like yourself who defend them. It’s just like when gun whackadoos murders 20 first graders and y’all claim it’s disrespectful to point out that it is 100% your fault. It’s the only way to make yourself feel better about being a s**tbag.
Hey @dad4 and Karen/Grace, this is all acceptable because a liquor store got burned down after the police murdered someone based on their skin color?
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I'm very sorry about that. For myself, I have known several who have had it as well- including multiple children close to me. Are you in LA area? I think I recently read that it's up to a 1 in every 5 person chance that there is a covid positive? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
Right? A mob is a mob. No mincing words there.
I don't care which side is doing it- neither are right. This destruction and chaos is not going to help whatsoever.
nextgenathletics
BRONZE
General takeaways from this thread and 2020 in general:
1. Mob mentality is bad, rioting is bad, looting is bad.
2. Leftwing extremists have been doing it for 8 months straight and liberal media, politicians and citizens have largely incited and encouraged it.
3. Rightwing extremists did it yesterday and conservative media, politicians and citizens have largely condemned it, with some exceptions.
4. Ad-hominem is sometimes justified.
5. EOTL is a buffoon.
1. Mob mentality is bad, rioting is bad, looting is bad.
2. Leftwing extremists have been doing it for 8 months straight and liberal media, politicians and citizens have largely incited and encouraged it.
3. Rightwing extremists did it yesterday and conservative media, politicians and citizens have largely condemned it, with some exceptions.
4. Ad-hominem is sometimes justified.
5. EOTL is a buffoon.
Bothsides-ism. Keep rationalizing how invading the U.S. Capitol because you’re a whiny racist loser is the same as opposing racism.
Desert Hound
DA
Perspective....
"Just last night, a violent mob surrounded a Senators wife at home with their newborn baby. They tried to force themselves into the home. In the last four years, Congresspersons were shot at and Rand Paul and Steve Scalise were almost killed.
This year, whole cities were destroyed and cops were targeted and killed.
Today at the Capitol, a woman--unarmed--was shot and killed. Nobody cares, apparently.
If your outrage only flows in one direction, which is even true of many GOP people, you are not the solution.
Why are we drawing the line at office buildings where Congress works as opposed to people's homes and businesses?
Whole city blocks were destroyed this summer. Anyone who isn't equally incensed at both is not a patriot."
"Just last night, a violent mob surrounded a Senators wife at home with their newborn baby. They tried to force themselves into the home. In the last four years, Congresspersons were shot at and Rand Paul and Steve Scalise were almost killed.
This year, whole cities were destroyed and cops were targeted and killed.
Today at the Capitol, a woman--unarmed--was shot and killed. Nobody cares, apparently.
If your outrage only flows in one direction, which is even true of many GOP people, you are not the solution.
Why are we drawing the line at office buildings where Congress works as opposed to people's homes and businesses?
Whole city blocks were destroyed this summer. Anyone who isn't equally incensed at both is not a patriot."
You’ve forgotten the mid summer right wing events. Rifles in the Michigan statehouse, ”Unite the Right“ rally, and so on. Both extremes have been playing with this for a while now.
It is not helpful for any of us to say “but you’re worse”. The other side has a “but you’re worse” argument, too. Indulging those arguments just gets us more of the same.
I wish Biden all the luck in the world. And I hope that Romney, Flake, or someone similar can build a loyal opposition worthy of the name.
Never going to happen. Romney would need to command not only the center but the Trumpist populists and they were jeering him on the plane from Salt Lake calling him a traitor. He's enemy No. 1 to them. And what's worse for him is the left only gives him love when he's agreeing with them (remember "binders of women", or Russia is a threat, or the dog, or punching someone in high school)?
On the congressional/state level the Republicans will do well enough...they only need to run AGAINST Biden and the Ds sooner or later will give them cause to unite against something. The Senate and Presidential level are more tricky (as we saw from Georgia)....Republicans need someone that can unite both wings and the reality that means someone far more dangerous and/or gifted than Trump (Trump isn't going away and will keep firebombing so anyone will need his nod to unite the Republicans). Pence might make an effort to unite the Rs but without the support of the Trumpkins he can't do it (and they'll turn on him after yesterday)....it would require a threat on the left far more potent than either Joe Biden or even Harris. As I wrote before, I'm not predicting it but wouldn't be surprised to see the Republican Party fall apart after this.
All this misunderstands where this is all coming from. The Trumpkins are tired of the meritocracy that's been built up over the last 1/2 century: the Republicans that pander to big business and tax cuts for the rich, the health experts that make pronouncements on them while drawing their own salary, the Left that looks down at them for being ignorant hicks for "clinging to their guns and religion", the rich and powerful which made money on the pandemic hand over foot and got government bailouts (both now and in 08) while small business suffered, the Ivy League graduates which seem to control the levers of power including the judiciary, and the wokeness (particularly from sports and Hollywood figures) which tells them that what they think and do is wrong. The left has some similar dynamics going on with the Bernie Bros. On the BLM side, it's also years of feeling disregarded, unheard, and seemingly carrying a weight against forces that prevent you from getting ahead and getting a little respect. On the Antifa side, if you see the kids, they aren't exactly the best looking, the most intelligent or athletic in the class...many of them look like kids that were bullied or who the cool kids would regard as "losers". Just another run of the mill politician with an Ivy League degree meeting with their lobbyist friends and raking in another million bucks isn't going to do it. This isn't just political...if it were it would end with Trump....it's societal and has been coming now for many years.
Desert Hound
DA
"Long ago, we had an attitude of zero tolerance for terrorism, "we do not negotiate with terrorists," etc. One reason for this was the implicit understanding that negotiating with terrorism legitimizes it. Violence becomes an instrument of politics.
Some of us warned all last year that treating violence as acceptable, even laudable, from SOME people would mainstream it and touch off an arms race. Everyone would start getting the idea that only groups with a demonstrated capacity for violence are taken seriously."
"Either political violence is rejected in total - from everyone, for any reason, no matter who they are or what they believe - or it isn't. Once the tolerance level is no longer zero, we become locked in a vicious and endless struggle to control exactly what the level should be.
This is similar to the detestable way modern society handles racism. The tolerance level should be zero, but it isn't. Racism, prejudice, and discrimination are acceptable from SOME people toward SOME people. "Anti-racism" is an instrument of totalitarian power, not a principle.
Of course the particulars of protecting vital government facilities are different, but in principle the law-abiding residents and shop owners of Kenosha should have the same expectation of protection from political violence as politicians in D.C. But they don't, do they?
Every time a left-wing group gets violent, we're immediately told the protest was Mostly Peaceful, and the people who assembled peaceably - and their political leaders, no matter how incendiary their rhetoric - are 0% responsible for any injury or destruction that occurred.
We're told it's really all OUR fault for not listening to the grievances of the "protesters" who turned violent, even as we watch video of them merrily looting retail stores. We forced them to steal those TV sets by not yielding to their political demands!
Irresponsible political leaders who fanned the flames of left-wing violence and help the perpetrators escape accountability for their actions are never held to account, never told they must resign, rarely even advised to tone down their rhetoric.
And many - most - of the left-wing riots and killings of recent memory were based on falsehoods and misinformation. Outright lies were blasted by left-wing politicians and media without consequence, entirely BECAUSE they wanted to whip people into a frenzy.
And we were told all of that was fine, acceptable, even praiseworthy because their violence brought CHANGE and their lies illuminated DEEPER TRUTH. Okay, sure, we got everything about Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin's deaths wrong, but there were legit grievances to be addressed!
We have to stop doing that. We have to insist that every quarter of our political spectrum renounce violence, and the willful incitement to violence, completely and absolutely. No more cutesy-poo nudge-nudge wink-wink when lefties burn and pillage. No more double standards.
No more celebration of Noble Lies that illuminate Deeper Truth by the light of burning homes and businesses that were destroyed by mobs with Legitimate Grievances. No more indulgences for those who wantonly break the laws of the System That Failed Them.
That is a principle, and we should all be able to agree on it, no matter what else we disagree on. Absolute zero tolerance for political violence is a message that can save lives and prevent destruction if we all say it together and demand our government acts accordingly.
But if we decide the tolerance level for political violence will not be 0.0, then all that remains is for our armies to meet in the streets."
freebeacon.com
Some of us warned all last year that treating violence as acceptable, even laudable, from SOME people would mainstream it and touch off an arms race. Everyone would start getting the idea that only groups with a demonstrated capacity for violence are taken seriously."
"Either political violence is rejected in total - from everyone, for any reason, no matter who they are or what they believe - or it isn't. Once the tolerance level is no longer zero, we become locked in a vicious and endless struggle to control exactly what the level should be.
This is similar to the detestable way modern society handles racism. The tolerance level should be zero, but it isn't. Racism, prejudice, and discrimination are acceptable from SOME people toward SOME people. "Anti-racism" is an instrument of totalitarian power, not a principle.
Of course the particulars of protecting vital government facilities are different, but in principle the law-abiding residents and shop owners of Kenosha should have the same expectation of protection from political violence as politicians in D.C. But they don't, do they?
Every time a left-wing group gets violent, we're immediately told the protest was Mostly Peaceful, and the people who assembled peaceably - and their political leaders, no matter how incendiary their rhetoric - are 0% responsible for any injury or destruction that occurred.
We're told it's really all OUR fault for not listening to the grievances of the "protesters" who turned violent, even as we watch video of them merrily looting retail stores. We forced them to steal those TV sets by not yielding to their political demands!
Irresponsible political leaders who fanned the flames of left-wing violence and help the perpetrators escape accountability for their actions are never held to account, never told they must resign, rarely even advised to tone down their rhetoric.
And many - most - of the left-wing riots and killings of recent memory were based on falsehoods and misinformation. Outright lies were blasted by left-wing politicians and media without consequence, entirely BECAUSE they wanted to whip people into a frenzy.
And we were told all of that was fine, acceptable, even praiseworthy because their violence brought CHANGE and their lies illuminated DEEPER TRUTH. Okay, sure, we got everything about Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin's deaths wrong, but there were legit grievances to be addressed!
We have to stop doing that. We have to insist that every quarter of our political spectrum renounce violence, and the willful incitement to violence, completely and absolutely. No more cutesy-poo nudge-nudge wink-wink when lefties burn and pillage. No more double standards.
No more celebration of Noble Lies that illuminate Deeper Truth by the light of burning homes and businesses that were destroyed by mobs with Legitimate Grievances. No more indulgences for those who wantonly break the laws of the System That Failed Them.
That is a principle, and we should all be able to agree on it, no matter what else we disagree on. Absolute zero tolerance for political violence is a message that can save lives and prevent destruction if we all say it together and demand our government acts accordingly.
But if we decide the tolerance level for political violence will not be 0.0, then all that remains is for our armies to meet in the streets."
House Dems Unanimously Block Resolution Condemning Violence and Rioting
House Democrats unanimously blocked a resolution condemning acts of violence and rioting—including the "deliberate targeting of law enforcement officers"—in the wake of George Floyd's death.
freebeacon.com
Desert Hound
DA
And part of what the excerpt of the article above refers to is the double standard...
The left really can't help themselves anymore than Trump can. They finally have him cowed, staffers and cabinet resigning, and instead they pour gas on the fire by claiming impeachment or removal under the 25th and revenge against those who questioned the election like Cruz/Hawley.
There's no grounds for removal under the 25th. The 25th allows removal only if Trump is unable to execute his powers and duties. It would set a horrible precedent for backdoor impeachment of other presidents their parties think are weak or don't go far enough. It would allow Trump to regain some high ground by claiming illegal coup.
The impeachment thing Ds are circling around because it would prohibit him from running again. But a. he has a right to counsel and there's no time to organize a trial before inauguration, b. do they really want Joe Biden's first 100 days taken up with this?, c. the grounds are weak....he didn't order his supporters to storm the capitol and expressly told them to go home (twice). You can argue he incited things with his rhetoric and then failed to denounce them quick enough or tell them to stop quick enough but then you can hold the Ds to the same standard. In fact, Kamala Harris is probably impeachable on the same grounds for what happened at the White House. d. it's undemocratic. Let the voters decide. The only thing this is going to serve to do is rile up his base even more and create even more political violence. Right now the chance of left on right violence during the inauguration has decreased.....this would rachet it right back up to 100%
There's no grounds for removal under the 25th. The 25th allows removal only if Trump is unable to execute his powers and duties. It would set a horrible precedent for backdoor impeachment of other presidents their parties think are weak or don't go far enough. It would allow Trump to regain some high ground by claiming illegal coup.
The impeachment thing Ds are circling around because it would prohibit him from running again. But a. he has a right to counsel and there's no time to organize a trial before inauguration, b. do they really want Joe Biden's first 100 days taken up with this?, c. the grounds are weak....he didn't order his supporters to storm the capitol and expressly told them to go home (twice). You can argue he incited things with his rhetoric and then failed to denounce them quick enough or tell them to stop quick enough but then you can hold the Ds to the same standard. In fact, Kamala Harris is probably impeachable on the same grounds for what happened at the White House. d. it's undemocratic. Let the voters decide. The only thing this is going to serve to do is rile up his base even more and create even more political violence. Right now the chance of left on right violence during the inauguration has decreased.....this would rachet it right back up to 100%
That’s right, more gas. Trumpism needs to burn. We’ve had violent protests relating to racial oppression for more than 60 years, yet only now is the fabric of our democracy crumbling. It is not happening and has never happened, as a result of protests, demonstrations and even violence in response to racial oppression. It is only happening due to Trumpism, fueled in large part by their unhappiness that racial oppression and their overall bigotry isn’t working anymore.
All this b.s. about needing to ignore WHY the violence is ridiculous. One side engaged in violence to fight oppression, while the other is doing so to perpetuate it. One is trying to fight oppression, while the other is trying to destroy democracy and overthrow our government. Not all violence is the same, and trying to make it seem so is just part of the problem. If you want to remedy the problem with society, you and your bothsides buddies must first understand and appreciate the reasons people are upset that leads to violence, even if you disagree with the violence itself.
And never mind that on a particular night in Portland, they attempted to block exits at the federal courthouse and then set the building on fire. Sounds like attempted murder to me.
Don't get me wrong, there were buffoons present yesterday, and those that vandalized should be prosecuted to the extent of the law. Antifa and extremist right wing groups have many things in common. The average "antifa" and right wing dummy foot soldier are too stupid or to blinded to realize they are being used.
I'm genuinely surprise more people weren't shot.