President Joe Biden

[Grace T.]

yeah,

BLM march in Washington - Capitol steps

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MAGAs storm Capitol steps were empty and we end up with this

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IIUC the difference between the 2 is for the left-protests, the perimeter was established at the steps of the capitol itself. For the right-protests, the perimeter was established on the boundary of the Capitol grounds. (From recorded audio, it's one of the complaints of the MAGA protestors....they were "being kept from the people's house"). They only, however, put up a chain link fence around the Capitol grounds...presumably because they are putting up the inauguration scaffolding and need to maintain access. Traditionally, groups have been allowed to protest on the Capitol grounds and steps....but because of COVID has been restricted (as I've written....none of this happens except from COVID).

Ultimately, BTW, the Speaker of the House is responsible for Capitol security, so if you generally buy into the "buck stop here" argument that's where responsibility for the debacle on the security end of things lie.

 

[Grace T.]

The R challenge now is how do they keep the MAGA vote and get the moderate Rs back. The latter won't vote for MAGA candidates (it seems) in state wide elections - see AZ also where Rs were fine locally but have now lost both senate seats and the pres race.

The R & D challenge is how do they change their primary processes to stop the extremes hijacking their parties. The majority of Americans are centrist IMV, some lean right and some left, but the majority are not extreme right or left. The primary process is screwing up functioning government.

You've answered your own question: the primary system. The Rs can't win generals without both the MAGA and the establishment wings of the Trump coalition. They are in an internal war now, postponed only by Trump's presidency. You saw the beginnings of it in the 2016 primary. California tried opened primaries but it hasn't really seemed to have helped much. The best hope for the establishment is that the populists are sufficiently cowed that they retreat for a while....removing Trump would have the opposite effect and give up the high ground.

BTW, the Democratic senators haven't been in a very unity mood in their speeches against the objectors. Can't say I really blame them....have never seen the Rs so cowed.

 

[dad4]

BTW, the Democratic senators haven't been in a very unity mood in their speeches against the objectors. Can't say I really blame them....have never seen the Rs so cowed.

Of course the Repubs are cowed. Their leader just took the hugely unpopular step of inviting brown shirt wannabes to ransack the capital building.

They have the far left calling them Nazis. So they defend themselves by trying to burn down the Reichstag.

 

[Grace T.]

Of course the Repubs are cowed. Their leader just took the hugely unpopular step of inviting brown shirt wannabes to ransack the capital building.

They have the far left calling them Nazis. So they defend themselves by trying to burn down the Reichstag.

Keep it that way. Don't give him the high ground.

 

[EOTL]

You've answered your own question: the primary system. The Rs can't win generals without both the MAGA and the establishment wings of the Trump coalition. They are in an internal war now, postponed only by Trump's presidency. You saw the beginnings of it in the 2016 primary. California tried opened primaries but it hasn't really seemed to have helped much. The best hope for the establishment is that the populists are sufficiently cowed that they retreat for a while....removing Trump would have the opposite effect and give up the high ground.

BTW, the Democratic senators haven't been in a very unity mood in their speeches against the objectors. Can't say I really blame them....have never seen the Rs so cowed.

Ha ha, whiny magaty trumpanzees stormed the Capitol today! 370,000 dead of Covid and a daily record of 4,100 today! Iran is enriching uranium! Climate change resulting in 5 of the 6 largest fires in CA history! American carnage! So awesome.

 

[whatithink]

IIUC the difference between the 2 is for the left-protests, the perimeter was established at the steps of the capitol itself. For the right-protests, the perimeter was established on the boundary of the Capitol grounds. (From recorded audio, it's one of the complaints of the MAGA protestors....they were "being kept from the people's house"). They only, however, put up a chain link fence around the Capitol grounds...presumably because they are putting up the inauguration scaffolding and need to maintain access. Traditionally, groups have been allowed to protest on the Capitol grounds and steps....but because of COVID has been restricted (as I've written....none of this happens except from COVID).

Ultimately, BTW, the Speaker of the House is responsible for Capitol security, so if you generally buy into the "buck stop here" argument that's where responsibility for the debacle on the security end of things lie.

Didn't know that wrt the boundary, but the presence is definitely different, i.e. full on paramilitary garb and rows of it vs a few police officers in street clothes plus a few bicycle cops with helmets on.

TBH, I don't blame the major of a city of there are riots even of the mayor is responsible for security, I blame the rioters.

I expect we, the tax payers, will now pay a hefty sum to make every entrance to the Capitol into a reinforced barrier with the ability to lock it down at a moments notice. Many contractors licking their lips at the sums that will take.

 

[whatithink]

You've answered your own question: the primary system. The Rs can't win generals without both the MAGA and the establishment wings of the Trump coalition. They are in an internal war now, postponed only by Trump's presidency. You saw the beginnings of it in the 2016 primary. California tried opened primaries but it hasn't really seemed to have helped much. The best hope for the establishment is that the populists are sufficiently cowed that they retreat for a while....removing Trump would have the opposite effect and give up the high ground.

BTW, the Democratic senators haven't been in a very unity mood in their speeches against the objectors. Can't say I really blame them....have never seen the Rs so cowed.

No politician ever refuses a moment. Given the R's complete sycophantic deference to T for the last 4 years and the shit storm he started today and did the minimal possible to then prevent ... why would they do otherwise? Add in the 2 GA seats flipping and they frankly have every right to give it to them.

 

[happy9]

There is a video circulating on Twitter of the woman who was killed. She tried climbing through a window they had busted and got sniped by (what seems to be,) an officer. Why she thought breaking through a window into the White House was a good idea- who tf knows.

It will be interesting how that plays out. Was she a threat to anyone? Did they think she was carrying a weapon (very hard to do in DC)? Did the capitol police officer feel like his life or those around him was being threatened? How far away was she from the person who shot her?

She should not have been trying to forcibly enter the Capital building when it was obvious that they were denying entry. With that said, she certainly didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Arrested and roughed a bit during the process, sure, shot and killed - I don't think so. We will see if this was an intentional shooting or was it a negligent discharge on behalf of the officer (if it turns out that the one shot fired was from an officer). It sucks when you are forced to shoot someone, it sucks more when it's an accident, and they die.

 

[dad4]

Ha ha, whiny magaty trumpanzees stormed the Capitol today! 370,000 dead of Covid and a daily record of 4,100 today! Iran is enriching uranium! Climate change resulting in 5 of the 6 largest fires in CA history! American carnage! So awesome.

Now go back and re-read your May-June posts defending rioters and looters.

This is what you were defending. Own it.

Do you like it this time around? Do you have the same profound respect for spontaneous acts of protest?

I would hope we all can finally admit that civility itself is valuable.

 

[Grace T.]

No politician ever refuses a moment. Given the R's complete sycophantic deference to T for the last 4 years and the shit storm he started today and did the minimal possible to then prevent ... why would they do otherwise? Add in the 2 GA seats flipping and they frankly have every right to give it to them.

Yeah, but that's not gonna give us unity. That's just gonna make them seethe until they can recapture the high ground later. Given the left's own problems with violence, I don't anticipate that being very long.

Didn't know that wrt the boundary, but the presence is definitely different, i.e. full on paramilitary garb and rows of it vs a few police officers in street clothes plus a few bicycle cops with helmets on.

TBH, I don't blame the major of a city of there are riots even of the mayor is responsible for security, I blame the rioters.

I expect we, the tax payers, will now pay a hefty sum to make every entrance to the Capitol into a reinforced barrier with the ability to lock it down at a moments notice. Many contractors licking their lips at the sums that will take.

I remember when I did my stint in Washington during college and my gap year, the Capitol was wide open...just a bunch of metal detectors. During my stint with the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Senate, I'd even give tours of the Capitol building to visiting friends. You could just enter the office buildings too. After 9/11 they funneled public entrance into the new visitors center and built a bunker to house members of Congress if the Capitol was under attack (presumably that's where reports say the VP and Speaker were taken). Took my kids a few years ago....very different, you couldn't wander like you could in the old days even after clearing the visitors center entrance and after the shooting of the R representatives they added new layers of security to the house galleries (you had to submit to a full body scan and identity check). COVID has shut down pretty much all access except to select media and essential staff. Now, no doubt access will be further restricted which will no doubt further inflame this separation (the notion on the right and left that the elites have themselves held up in some castle).

It will be interesting how that plays out. Was she a threat to anyone? Did they think she was carrying a weapon (very hard to do in DC)? Did the capitol police officer feel like his life or those around him was being threatened? How far away was she from the person who shot her?

She should not have been trying to forcibly enter the Capital building when it was obvious that they were denying entry. With that said, she certainly didn't deserve to be shot and killed. Arrested and roughed a bit during the process, sure, shot and killed - I don't think so. We will see if this was an intentional shooting or was it a negligent discharge on behalf of the officer (if it turns out that the one shot fired was from an officer). It sucks when you are forced to shoot someone, it sucks more when it's an accident, and they die.

Video shows she was part of the group trying to storm onto the House chamber. Police told the group to back off and then opened fire. Reports on social media say she was ex military. There's no indication so far that the group trying to storm the House fired first. Some reports say it was because some House members were sheltered there, but I haven't seen video confirming.

 

[happy9]

Didn't know that wrt the boundary, but the presence is definitely different, i.e. full on paramilitary garb and rows of it vs a few police officers in street clothes plus a few bicycle cops with helmets on.

TBH, I don't blame the major of a city of there are riots even of the mayor is responsible for security, I blame the rioters.

I expect we, the tax payers, will now pay a hefty sum to make every entrance to the Capitol into a reinforced barrier with the ability to lock it down at a moments notice. Many contractors licking their lips at the sums that will take.

I think there is plenty of blame to be placed on the DC mayor and the emergency planners that coordinate the capitol police, and other federal law enforcement agencies that are responsible for security of federal buildings in DC.. They knew this was coming, the chatter was there in the open for all to hear. It takes weeks to get a permit to hold a demonstration in DC.

They were caught flat footed and unprepared. And yes, the mob is eventually to blame, it was their choice. They took advantage of the situation. It's very easy to overwhelm law enforcement in patrol uniforms and on bikes behind light barriers. It wasn't a fair fight at all. The extremist within the group took advantage of the obvious lack of presence. They are more sophisticated than many think.

The city has the resources, just look at the law enforcement presence during previous BLM protests. Whole city blocks barricaded, crowds contained into areas of their choosing, etc. It's unfortunate. From the outside looking in, and from an operational perspective, they blew it, and blew it big time.

Take a peek now as to what has been deployed to the capital building. There will be very few MAGA A$$hats that are willing to take on fully uniformed law enforcement officers and National Guard soldiers.

 

[Grace T.]

Here's one of the Trumpists. I don't think it's right that the R party has lost 70% of its vote. I do, however, think the establishmentarians have lost the support of the Trumpkins and it's off the wilderness for the Rs....the Trump coalition is dead....it would take a very special R figure to put it back together.

On the D's side this moment will require Biden to be Reagan or Kennedy, if not Lincoln. Not sure he's up to that.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346982585000357888

 

[happy9]

Yeah, but that's not gonna give us unity. That's just gonna make them seethe until they can recapture the high ground later. Given the left's own problems with violence, I don't anticipate that being very long.



I remember when I did my stint in Washington during college and my gap year, the Capitol was wide open...just a bunch of metal detectors. During my stint with the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Senate, I'd even give tours of the Capitol building to visiting friends. You could just enter the office buildings too. After 9/11 they funneled public entrance into the new visitors center and built a bunker to house members of Congress if the Capitol was under attack (presumably that's where reports say the VP and Speaker were taken). Took my kids a few years ago....very different, you couldn't wander like you could in the old days even after clearing the visitors center entrance and after the shooting of the R representatives they added new layers of security to the house galleries (you had to submit to a full body scan and identity check). COVID has shut down pretty much all access except to select media and essential staff. Now, no doubt access will be further restricted which will no doubt further inflame this separation (the notion on the right and left that the elites have themselves held up in some castle).



Video shows she was part of the group trying to storm onto the House chamber. Police told the group to back off and then opened fire. Reports on social media say she was ex military. There's no indication so far that the group trying to storm the House fired first. Some reports say it was because some House members were sheltered there, but I haven't seen video confirming.

She was a 14 year AF Veteran. We will see what comes out of it. Use of deadly force during this type of scenario is rare but then again, protective detail secret service types aren't trained in riot control. I've been told two things, 1 shot fired, and multiple shots fired. People were trying to pull her back through the window when someone (either secret service or capitol police shot her. It's hard for me to believe that in that type of density, multiple shots fired into confined space didn't result in multiple victims.

 

[EOTL]

Now go back and re-read your May-June posts defending rioters and looters.

This is what you were defending. Own it.

Do you like it this time around? Do you have the same profound respect for spontaneous acts of protest?

I would hope we all can finally admit that civility itself is valuable.

I did not defend rioting. I told you why it was happening. And that is the problem with you Magats. You don’t care one bit about the legitimate reasons they were protesting and angry, you’re just using it to rationalize the illegitimate reasons your trumpanzee buddies stormed the U.S. Capitol.

There are legitimate reasons to protest and even cause property damage. Whiny sore loser is not one of them. Ha ha.

 

[Grace T.]

The city has the resources, just look at the law enforcement presence during previous BLM protests. Whole city blocks barricaded, crowds contained into areas of their choosing, etc. It's unfortunate. From the outside looking in, and from an operational perspective, they blew it, and blew it big time.

I agree with your post but the city didn't exactly handle the BLM protests well. Remember the protestors did storm the White House grounds and burned down that church outside it....federal law enforcement had to be called in. After the Trump speech, Republicans leaving the speech were attacked by the leftist protestors. And the mayor encouraged the protests.....law enforcement was present and certain city blocks (like the Capitol grounds) were barricaded, but they were also under orders to not interfere with the protests and in fairness some of the Rs were victims of that violence. Then again a few weeks ago there was violence on the streets with the right and left attacking each other.

 

[EOTL]

Yeah, but that's not gonna give us unity. That's just gonna make them seethe until they can recapture the high ground later. Given the left's own problems with violence, I don't anticipate that being very long.



I remember when I did my stint in Washington during college and my gap year, the Capitol was wide open...just a bunch of metal detectors. During my stint with the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Senate, I'd even give tours of the Capitol building to visiting friends. You could just enter the office buildings too. After 9/11 they funneled public entrance into the new visitors center and built a bunker to house members of Congress if the Capitol was under attack (presumably that's where reports say the VP and Speaker were taken). Took my kids a few years ago....very different, you couldn't wander like you could in the old days even after clearing the visitors center entrance and after the shooting of the R representatives they added new layers of security to the house galleries (you had to submit to a full body scan and identity check). COVID has shut down pretty much all access except to select media and essential staff. Now, no doubt access will be further restricted which will no doubt further inflame this separation (the notion on the right and left that the elites have themselves held up in some castle).



Video shows she was part of the group trying to storm onto the House chamber. Police told the group to back off and then opened fire. Reports on social media say she was ex military. There's no indication so far that the group trying to storm the House fired first. Some reports say it was because some House members were sheltered there, but I haven't seen video confirming.

F**k unity. Magats don’t care about unity, so you get to pay.

 

[EOTL]

In memory of @crush, let’s meme!

 

[EOTL]

The Confederacy won! Y’all must be so proud!

 

[Glitterhater]

She was a 14 year AF Veteran. We will see what comes out of it. Use of deadly force during this type of scenario is rare but then again, protective detail secret service types aren't trained in riot control. I've been told two things, 1 shot fired, and multiple shots fired. People were trying to pull her back through the window when someone (either secret service or capitol police shot her. It's hard for me to believe that in that type of density, multiple shots fired into confined space didn't result in multiple victims.

It was really hard to tell from the video, for sure. What was confusing was that there was another video floating around of a maga protester boasting he "shot a woman" and a fellow protester asked "is she dead"? So maybe it was "friendly" fire? Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Glitterhater]

In memory of @crush, let’s meme!

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Great. Did Crush change names again??