Ponderable

nononono said:
What " You " are stating is correct...

I " Think " Andy was trying to convey that the Catholic Church has set
a practice of abstinence that does not work with basic human nature.
Over the last ( just ) 500 years or so it is obvious the ingrained deviancy
that has been practiced within the Catholic Church.
There are many many subjects that I will not discuss on this forum that
the Catholic Church has swept under the rug so to speak and instead opted
to either pay off the accusers or use other more serious methods that could
be deemed quite evil/murderous in nature.

Andy's Original Comment below :

" I have a problem with abstinence.
It is unnatural and it does not work.
When abstinence is taught to kids as the only safe way to not get pregnant, teen pregnancies go up.
Same with all STD's including AIDS.
The Catholic Church worked hard to stop governments from handing out condoms.
They actively worked against NGO organizations that were doing great work to stop AIDS.
And as far as BIAS......
I posted the article from the Catholic Church to show the source of this evil idiocracy.
The church itself. "

He could have presented his argument much more eloquently
and touched on specifics that have/are destroying the inner workings
of the church...
But I do see what his basic premise was...and the Catholic Church has
been guilty for quite some time ( as in hundreds and hundreds of years. )
As for the influence of the Catholic Church in Latin America, that is
a subject that has been debated many times....some say it goes the
other way .....

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/08/21/how-latin-america-influenced-entire-catholic-church
Click to expand...
Hold the presses. Nono actually made sense.
 
tenacious said:
Personally I'm capitalist enough to know that there are times the socialism works better. I just don't think it should be the default position.

I remember when my dd was in 2nd grade she was placed in the GATE program at school. Then Bush passed the "No Child Left Behind" act and all the funding was taken out of the gifted program and instead used to improve the scores of the lowest achieving students. While I appreciate the idea that all the resources and focus going to the weakest that is the backbone of the socialist model... I just think this type of narrow minded focus, when the rubber hits the road, is the path to stagnation. Because quite simply it's the smart / strong / aggressive that will one day go onto be the innovators who will be the rising tide that will improve life for the rest of us.
Click to expand...
Don’t we already know the only systems that work are social democracies...but those are in releatively homogeneous countries with shared culture and values...tough to replicate.
Capitalism is failing the masses, we see it every day. It requires more wars to capture new markets and resources and greater subjugation of labor and the powerless...
Socialism is obviously failing, we see that every day.
Scandinavia and even Switzerland ensure free health care and education and no homelessness.
People get bored though and the ones who want to get rich come to America.
 
Andy Dukes said:
A.If you read the WHOLE Wiki article, it is as I stated.

B. 1. The Catholic Church actively dissuaded the use of condoms during the worst parts of the AIDS crisis in Africa. Uganda was just one country affected. There is not one bit of argument about that fact. The Catholic Church agrees with that fact.

C.2. Using condoms blocks at almost a 100% rate the risk of AIDS when used correctly and all the time. Not an arguable point. Just a fact.



D. My opinion based on research at the time is that pushing back against the use of condoms was not a winning strategy. As part of the ABC strategy, many were led to follow the first portion abstinence and maybe fidelity

E. but many in Kenya and other areas were being taught by churches and others that condoms were actually an evil plan to let HIV in and not effective. Where the education on actually using condoms, saw a decrease in new cases.

My opinion does not matter. The points 1 and 2 are truths.
Click to expand...

Now you are just arguing to argue... but I'll play.

Did you find my post about my tale on condoms and STDs? If you did then why do keep posting about that? If not, then you're gonna feel pretty foolish once you do.


A. You keep saying the link you posted supports your opinion when it clearly does not. Yes! I read the entire article but either you did not or are having a difficult time understanding it. I even posted a section of it for you to read and you still can't figure it out.

B. The Catholic Church never said don't use a condom .

C. Condoms are readily available( for free at CSUF) and yet we still have teen pregnancies and STDs.. why? Because they are not used properly or all the time. Abstinence works 100% of the time. In fact, the HIV infection rate in Africa was declining when abstinence was being taught as the best prevention.

D. Your research? You mean the article you posted?

E. Again, what's your source for that?
 
messy said:
Don’t we already know the only systems that work are social democracies...but those are in releatively homogeneous countries with shared culture and values...tough to replicate.
Capitalism is failing the masses, we see it every day. It requires more wars to capture new markets and resources and greater subjugation of labor and the powerless...
Socialism is obviously failing, we see that every day.
Scandinavia and even Switzerland ensure free health care and education and no homelessness.
People get bored though and the ones who want to get rich come to America.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in see those European social democracies balance the budget without Uncle Sam paying for their defense. Case in point, I was reading the other day Sweden spends just enough on defense so they can hold out for two months (or maybe it was three months) if they were ever to be attacked because by their best estimate that's the time they think it would take allied forces to come save them. Guess who they mean when they say allied forces?
 
Multi Sport said:
Now you are just arguing to argue... but I'll play.

Did you find my post about my tale on condoms and STDs? If you did then why do keep posting about that? If not, then you're gonna feel pretty foolish once you do.


A. You keep saying the link you posted supports your opinion when it clearly does not. Yes! I read the entire article but either you did not or are having a difficult time understanding it. I even posted a section of it for you to read and you still can't figure it out.

B. The Catholic Church never said don't use a condom .

C. Condoms are readily available( for free at CSUF) and yet we still have teen pregnancies and STDs.. why? Because they are not used properly or all the time. Abstinence works 100% of the time. In fact, the HIV infection rate in Africa was declining when abstinence was being taught as the best prevention.

D. Your research? You mean the article you posted?

E. Again, what's your source for that?
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that abstinence works. However, the rate of actual abstinence conduct by those who claim to practice it is lower than the rate of actual condom use by those who claim to use condoms.
 
tenacious said:
I'd be interested in see those European social democracies balance the budget without Uncle Sam paying for their defense. Case in point, I was reading the other day Sweden spends just enough on defense so they can hold out for two months (or maybe it was three months) if they were ever to be attacked because by their best estimate that's the time they think it would take allied forces to come save them. Guess who they mean when they say allied forces?
Click to expand...

Sweden is officially neutral, so Switzerland?
 
tenacious said:
I'd be interested in see those European social democracies balance the budget without Uncle Sam paying for their defense. Case in point, I was reading the other day Sweden spends just enough on defense so they can hold out for two months (or maybe it was three months) if they were ever to be attacked because by their best estimate that's the time they think it would take allied forces to come save them. Guess who they mean when they say allied forces?
Click to expand...
Protecting the peace around the world is what has made America the richest and most powerful nation in the world, til now.
 
espola said:
Sweden is officially neutral, so Switzerland?
Click to expand...

Hmm... went looking for where I heard the two month quote and saw that wiki says they don't even spend enough on the military to pay for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Army
The Swedish Army formed a Rapid Reaction Organisation (Insatsorganisation in Swedish) in 2014. Under the organisation the training regiments of the Swedish army would be able to form two combat brigades and a number of independent combat battalions within a few days. This plan, however, was considered by the Supreme Commander to be impossible due to the economic situation at the time.[1]

In 2013, the Armed Forces issued a statement saying that the reorganisation would only suffice for a reasonable defense of Swedish territory for one week.[2] The force was to include the following units:[3]
Click to expand...
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Protecting the peace around the world is what has made America the richest and most powerful nation in the world, til now.
Click to expand...

Given Europe's long history of constant warfare... I'm not sure it would be cheaper to let them build up their own armies like in the days of yore? Don't know that we've even paid off all the debt from WW2 yet.
 
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Multi Sport said:
Now you are just arguing to argue... but I'll play.

Did you find my post about my tale on condoms and STDs? If you did then why do keep posting about that? If not, then you're gonna feel pretty foolish once you do.


A. You keep saying the link you posted supports your opinion when it clearly does not. Yes! I read the entire article but either you did not or are having a difficult time understanding it. I even posted a section of it for you to read and you still can't figure it out.

B. The Catholic Church never said don't use a condom .

C. Condoms are readily available( for free at CSUF) and yet we still have teen pregnancies and STDs.. why? Because they are not used properly or all the time. Abstinence works 100% of the time. In fact, the HIV infection rate in Africa was declining when abstinence was being taught as the best prevention.

D. Your research? You mean the article you posted?

E. Again, what's your source for that?
Click to expand...

You might want to re-think your capital B there, fella...

spokesperson for the church later clarified that the use of condoms was still considered immoral and that the pope had not intended to take a position "on the problem of condoms in general."[1]
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Protecting the peace around the world is what has made America the richest and most powerful nation in the world, til now.
Click to expand...

Another useless factoid that you should probably not quote me on either, because I don't remember where I read it... but compared to the rest of the world, 75% or American's have a standard of living that put them in the top 10% versus the rest of the world.
 
messy said:
You might want to re-think your capital B there, fella...

spokesperson for the church later clarified that the use of condoms was still considered immoral and that the pope had not intended to take a position "on the problem of condoms in general."[1]
Click to expand...
By the way, your C is really stupid, too. Hey if we have condoms how come when people don’t wear them they still get stds and pregnancy? When they don’t have sex, they don’t get those things.
Therefore, abstinence (a fiction) better than condoms. Condoms are bad.
I think the Catholic Church is insane, just like your arguments.
 
Multi Sport said:
Now you are just arguing to argue... but I'll play.

Did you find my post about my tale on condoms and STDs? If you did then why do keep posting about that? If not, then you're gonna feel pretty foolish once you do.


A. You keep saying the link you posted supports your opinion when it clearly does not. Yes! I read the entire article but either you did not or are having a difficult time understanding it. I even posted a section of it for you to read and you still can't figure it out.

B. The Catholic Church never said don't use a condom .

C. Condoms are readily available( for free at CSUF) and yet we still have teen pregnancies and STDs.. why? Because they are not used properly or all the time. Abstinence works 100% of the time. In fact, the HIV infection rate in Africa was declining when abstinence was being taught as the best prevention.

D. Your research? You mean the article you posted?

E. Again, what's your source for that?
Click to expand...
 
Multi Sport said:
Now you are just arguing to argue... but I'll play.


B. The Catholic Church never said don't use a condom .

C. Condoms are readily available( for free at CSUF) and yet we still have teen pregnancies and STDs.. why? Because they are not used properly or all the time. Abstinence works 100% of the time. In fact, the HIV infection rate in Africa was declining when abstinence was being taught as the best prevention.



?
Click to expand...
B. Yes they did and still do. That is not arguable. They openly did and still do. In 2010 way after the crisis the POPE (infallible voice of God himself) stated it is finally OKAY to use condoms for one reason, just not getting AIDS ......but it is still immoral and wrong on every front except AIDS. Way after the fact and when they had been so wrong. That was 2010. Remember LIVE AID was 1985. This was well after the epidemic had partially burned out. The biggest cause of less AIDS in Africa before then was from death not abstinence or condoms.

C. And where condoms are readily available, you have less STD's and less teen pregnancies. We have had a significant dropping in teen pregnancies across the US over the last 30 years and mostly because of rounded programs including birth control are available. Where teen pregnancies are still predominate, there seems to be a correlation to being red states.

Because you won't look up anything yourself.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...atholic-ban-on-condoms-in-historic-shift.html
https://www.womenshealth.gov/30-achievements/09
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm
 
Left wing tactics.

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