Placer United stirring it up

Maskless said:
I generally agree with you, but the use of the words "Davis poached" has a harsh resonance to it. Everybody in region 6 knew Placer United was going to have a dumpster fire once it became known DA was folding, especially the staff/coaches at the surrounding clubs. Those coaches didn't have to do anything but wait for the emails and phone calls from the Placer players and parents. Most of them already had a relationship with Robo thru PDP. Those Placer players leaving for Davis, and I guess San Juan, to be a part of a unique competitive landscape was inevitable once DA collapsed. What were these clubs to do? Turn them away? I wonder how many players has Placer poached from Davis or any other club over the years. Probably quite a few. The post above had two links to the most recent recruiting violations at Placer United by Paul O'Brien and Kim Gonzalez. So did Paul and Placer United get sanctioned because he was the DOC, and Kim was the one doing the actual recruiting and training outside of the tryout window without notifying the club? It sort of sounds that way when you read the complaints and findings together. That would be a shame if that's why Paul and Jodi decided to leave.

Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/

Outlaw is right. Let "competition drive the market". Recruit all you want. It makes teams better and speeds up the identification process. From a business perspective, in a competitive market, it would make sense for Davis and San Juan to reject Placer's attempt to obtain an ECNL market share. What serious business wouldn't deny a competitor? ECNL probably looked at it from a national perspective rather than a regional perspective and concluded the talent pool for the two local ECNL clubs would be further diluted with a third club. It's hard to have a brand name like Elite Competitive National League (ECNL) and then make decisions that run counter to it.
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S/b Elite Clubs National League.
 
The Outlaw said:
You're correct... everyone knew... and I hold Davis in pretty high regard because of how they run things. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if every one of those families, and 50 others, called Davis rather than the alternative and Robertson did no recruiting. You're correct that families were salivating. That said, put yourself in the position of the kid that signed up for tryouts a month in advance. This kid has no team or is with a team and only signs up for Davis tryouts because that's where they want to be. Next thing you know, after a handful of phone calls, tryouts get cancelled. I feel for THAT kid. The kid that never got a fair shot. For me, it's not as much about what the Placer families did... or what Robo did... but advertising tryouts and then cancelling because you just "poached" the ones you wanted. I think that was classless. I think they, at the very least, should have gone through with some kind of tryouts. I'm not sure what SJ did... probably something similar. Maybe they were completely limited by Covid.

I don't spend time worrying about clubs recruiting players because I think parents are the biggest offenders there. I know Placer picked up many players when they went DA... so it stands to reason, or perhaps fairness, they lose them the same way. It actually warms my heart in a way because the clubs show little loyalty to families. Karma, right? I just think the turnover takes a little of the fun out of it for players that enjoy rivalries, etc.

It seems to me what a U-Littles coach did with private training is minor compared to other things we've seen unless it went beyond her specifically. I think Paul took the bullet because, at the 10,000' level, someone had to.
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U-littles? I saw she is the 09G coach, but the pic of the players waiting at the back door for the training looked like those were older players. Regardless, the rules are the rules and there shouldn't have been any training or contact outside of the tryout window. And let's not forget there was a gov mandated lockdown. Kim disregarded the rules and created an unfair competetive advantage. Typical Placer United ploy. I feel bad for Paul and Jodi getting swept up and away because of this. It doesn't sound minor, but I don't know what "other things" you've seen that you are comparing this too. Its important for parents to talk so that they aren't slave to the club's messaging. I see no problem with parents discussing clubs and if parents want to leave because they liked what they heard then best of luck. As far as the child and tryouts I sympathize for her but it could have been worse. They could have wasted her time with a tryout just for show.
 
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The Outlaw said:
You're correct... everyone knew... and I hold Davis in pretty high regard because of how they run things. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if every one of those families, and 50 others, called Davis rather than the alternative and Robertson did no recruiting. You're correct that families were salivating. That said, put yourself in the position of the kid that signed up for tryouts a month in advance. This kid has no team or is with a team and only signs up for Davis tryouts because that's where they want to be. Next thing you know, after a handful of phone calls, tryouts get cancelled. I feel for THAT kid. The kid that never got a fair shot. For me, it's not as much about what the Placer families did... or what Robo did... but advertising tryouts and then cancelling because you just "poached" the ones you wanted. I think that was classless. I think they, at the very least, should have gone through with some kind of tryouts. I'm not sure what SJ did... probably something similar. Maybe they were completely limited by Covid.

I don't spend time worrying about clubs recruiting players because I think parents are the biggest offenders there. I know Placer picked up many players when they went DA... so it stands to reason, or perhaps fairness, they lose them the same way. It actually warms my heart in a way because the clubs show little loyalty to families. Karma, right? I just think the turnover takes a little of the fun out of it for players that enjoy rivalries, etc.

It seems to me what a U-Littles coach did with private training is minor compared to other things we've seen unless it went beyond her specifically. I think Paul took the bullet because, at the 10,000' level, someone had to.
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They were completely limited by Covid and could not hold in person tryouts.
The amount of inaccurate speculation and gossip that happens on here would be entertaining if it were not for the unfortunate fact that those that don’t know better take it away as information.
 
Maskless said:
U-littles? I saw she is the 09G coach, but the pic of the players waiting at the back door for the training looked like those were older players. Regardless, the rules are the rules and there shouldn't have been any training or contact outside of the tryout window. And let's not forget there was a gov mandated lockdown. Kim disregarded the rules and created an unfair competetive advantage. Typical Placer United ploy. I feel bad for Paul and Jodi getting swept up and away because of this. It doesn't sound minor, but I don't know what "other things" you've seen that you are comparing this too. Its important for parents to talk so that they aren't slave to the club's messaging. I see no problem with parents discussing clubs and if parents want to leave because they liked what they heard then best of luck. As far as the child and tryouts I sympathize for her but it could have been worse. They could have wasted her time with a tryout just for show.
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You are confusing 2 different violations. Kim had nothing to do with the “picture”. She brought over players from another club that she was training privately. The picture and indoor training was a seperate event, probably older girls from another club.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
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They were completely limited by Covid and could not hold in person tryouts.
The amount of inaccurate speculation and gossip that happens on here would be entertaining if it were not for the unfortunate fact that those that don’t know better take it away as information.
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Well, the reality is that Davis knew, well in advance, they were going to pull players from the DA and never intended on having a tryout. I get it if Covid impacted everything but they only had half a dozen spots (at most) to fill anyway. What did they do with the existing, bottom third of the roster... move them to a B team?
 
Maskless said:
U-littles? I saw she is the 09G coach, but the pic of the players waiting at the back door for the training looked like those were older players. Regardless, the rules are the rules and there shouldn't have been any training or contact outside of the tryout window. And let's not forget there was a gov mandated lockdown. Kim disregarded the rules and created an unfair competetive advantage. Typical Placer United ploy. I feel bad for Paul and Jodi getting swept up and away because of this. It doesn't sound minor, but I don't know what "other things" you've seen that you are comparing this too. Its important for parents to talk so that they aren't slave to the club's messaging. I see no problem with parents discussing clubs and if parents want to leave because they liked what they heard then best of luck. As far as the child and tryouts I sympathize for her but it could have been worse. They could have wasted her time with a tryout just for show.
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Agreed on parents talking... that's the customer's only ammunition. Unfortunately, that does as much damage as anything else.
 
There was not a state lockdown at the time of the trainings. Maybe recruiting outside of tryout window but not a state wide lockdown. My 2 daughters play for other clubs and they also didn’t have tryouts. It is a bummer for the kids that don’t get a fair shot, also sucks for teams that want new players, ha.
 
Ksoccer07 said:
There was not a state lockdown at the time of the trainings. Maybe recruiting outside of tryout window but not a state wide lockdown. My 2 daughters play for other clubs and they also didn’t have tryouts. It is a bummer for the kids that don’t get a fair shot, also sucks for teams that want new players, ha.
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Yeah... I don't know that anybody had anything remotely close to a traditional tryout. In Davis' defense, there was a "recruiting" window prior to the "tryout" window and I don't think they broke any rules.
 
I do know with Davis, (ECNL,) they talked to people during that open window, but could not formally make any offers until that window opened.

For ie: I know girls who got offers from their current club at the time, (because they had that window where they could sign returning players,) and they ended up losing their offer while waiting on Davis. So Davis really did wait until it was ok to make offers to new players. Such a weird year!
 
Glitterhater said:
I do know with Davis, (ECNL,) they talked to people during that open window, but could not formally make any offers until that window opened.

For ie: I know girls who got offers from their current club at the time, (because they had that window where they could sign returning players,) and they ended up losing their offer while waiting on Davis. So Davis really did wait until it was ok to make offers to new players. Such a weird year!
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We both know some of those personalities. Going to be an interesting year. ;)
 
The best part is some families will play about 10 games if their lucky in CA and here comes tryouts in May again. More jumping :)
 
Soccerfan2 said:
RYSC (where he coaches) is absolutely competing for players with Placer. That might clue people in as to his motivation.
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RYSC does not compete with Placer for players. If there is a choice between Placer and RYSC there is no choice. Roseville’s top teams can’t usually compete with lower level NPL teams.
 
Blank95661 said:
RYSC does not compete with Placer for players. If there is a choice between Placer and RYSC there is no choice. Roseville’s top teams can’t usually compete with lower level NPL teams.
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Sure they do. Players often come from RYSC to Placer. RYSC has to compete to keep players from going to Placer. Yes, the city teams are usually below the level of NPL.
 
I think one would be correct to assume that the city clubs have to fight to keep players from the B teams at places like Placer. I don't think it's as common to have a high-level player acquired from the city team. Not that it never happens, but much less likely. Unless you get the case like placer did this year of a coach from a city team bringing his entire team over to the top team because he is now the top teams coach.
 
Glitterhater said:
I think one would be correct to assume that the city clubs have to fight to keep players from the B teams at places like Placer. I don't think it's as common to have a high-level player acquired from the city team. Not that it never happens, but much less likely. Unless you get the case like placer did this year of a coach from a city team bringing his entire team over to the top team because he is now the top teams coach.
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So to recap...

Placer loses DA. Placer is denied ECNL girls. Placer gets busted for recruiting. The coach gets suspended for it by norcal. Placer gets caught for illegal training sessions that makes them the poster child for what not to do during a pandemic by the media. Exposed for cheating - 2x. Norcal places them on 1 year probation causing their DOC and team admin to leave. Their talent moves to their competitors (SJSC & Davis). And now are restocking their younger teams with non NPL teams "gleaned" from a local city team while their only chance to get accepted into ECNL hinges on being able to demonstrate they can field elite caliber competition, which by the way, has to prove it against the talent that bailed to Davis and San Juan. LMAO! Couldn't happen to a more deserving club. For those coming to their rescue please spare us from the kool aid induced worn out platitudes and open your eyes to Placer's sad reality. That dumpster fire is glowing hot.

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Maskface, placers DA teams were good enough to get granted ECNL. The most likely reason they didn’t get it is proximity to Davis and SJ and maybe not having their own fields. Also the new leadership at placer is solid so I won’t be surprised if they take a excel in the coming years. Not Kool Aid just facts.
 
Ksoccer07 said:
Maskface, placers DA teams were good enough to get granted ECNL. The most likely reason they didn’t get it is proximity to Davis and SJ and maybe not having their own fields. Also the new leadership at placer is solid so I won’t be surprised if they take a excel in the coming years. Not Kool Aid just facts.
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Nice try, but you failed to provide any facts.

"placers DA teams were good enough to get granted ECNL." - This is an opinion. The fact is they didn't get ECNL.

"The most likely reason they didn’t get it is proximity to Davis and SJ and maybe not having their own fields." - This is conjecture. Not a fact.

"Also the new leadership at placer is solid" - Another opinion. I hope it gets better. The last chair, I heard, was a proponent of the Defensive Marriage Act and partnered with a big tobacco proponent. If true, hardly the type to have everyone's best interest in mind. It seems that mindset carried over to the club. This is another example of conjecture as opposed to fact. Personally I doubt that was the case.

"I won’t be surprised if they take a excel in the coming years." - Another opinion.

"In the coming years" That doesn't sound like anytime soon.

I know it can be hard to shift paradigms when the facts don't line up with what you want to believe. Yes there are some good players at the older ages but its hard for them to leave at a late stage. At this point it's an irrefutable dumpster fire when the facts we know are examined. In the coming years the flames will die out, the wreckage will be examined, and then we can evaluate the impact this had on Placer. Right now, the shitter is full at Placer. But at least there's a warm fire to huddle around during the winter. Also, try coffee, it might help.
 
Maskless said:
Nice try, but you failed to provide any facts.

"placers DA teams were good enough to get granted ECNL." - This is an opinion. The fact is they didn't get ECNL.

"The most likely reason they didn’t get it is proximity to Davis and SJ and maybe not having their own fields." - This is conjecture. Not a fact.

"Also the new leadership at placer is solid" - Another opinion. I hope it gets better. The last chair, I heard, was a proponent of the Defensive Marriage Act and partnered with a big tobacco proponent. If true, hardly the type to have everyone's best interest in mind. It seems that mindset carried over to the club. This is another example of conjecture as opposed to fact. Personally I doubt that was the case.

"I won’t be surprised if they take a excel in the coming years." - Another opinion.

"In the coming years" That doesn't sound like anytime soon.

I know it can be hard to shift paradigms when the facts don't line up with what you want to believe. Yes there are some good players at the older ages but its hard for them to leave at a late stage. At this point it's an irrefutable dumpster fire when the facts we know are examined. In the coming years the flames will die out, the wreckage will be examined, and then we can evaluate the impact this had on Placer. Right now, the shitter is full at Placer. But at least there's a warm fire to huddle around during the winter. Also, try coffee, it might help.
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I have a sneaky feeling this is OUTLAW!! Name is Maskless and’s a Bronze member! Hmmmm!!!
 
gotothebushes said:
I have a sneaky feeling this is OUTLAW!! Name is Maskless and’s a Bronze member! Hmmmm!!!
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Another popular tactic employed by the Placer crowd used to distract from any perceived attacks or misconceptions directed towards the club rather than having an objective dialog about it.
 
Like I've mentioned before, we have a few years experience with Placer, (we left this year.)
It was a shit show last year, 100%. I can't speak to the current leadership as like I said, we're gone.
I do feel like Placer is more of a "numbers" club. I didn't feel like our experience showed that they care about players- just numbers.
I can appreciate everyone's opinions on this because I do know that some people were happy there. But- facts are facts. It's factual they've done some shady shit.
 
Glitterhater said:
Like I've mentioned before, we have a few years experience with Placer, (we left this year.)
It was a shit show last year, 100%. I can't speak to the current leadership as like I said, we're gone.
I do feel like Placer is more of a "numbers" club. I didn't feel like our experience showed that they care about players- just numbers.
I can appreciate everyone's opinions on this because I do know that some people were happy there. But- facts are facts. It's factual they've done some shady shit.
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This was exactly our experience the past four years at Placer, especially this last season before COVID hit. I strongly believe it is a widely shared opinion that the club did not care about the development or retention of the younger players on the girls' side. It was hard for me not to wonder if the ulittles and B/C teams were just considered "fundraisers" for the DA teams. I do hope the club can turn things around again after the recent mass exodus. We picked that club in the first place because of their reputation as being a strong club for many years -sad it seems that is no longer the case. We still have many friends there and would never want to see them fail, but I can't help but feel a bit of "I told you so" when we hear of more and more families' dissatisfaction.
 
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