My 06 DD prior to DA over the years played against the San Juan team coached Ron Shackleford. We loved playing against them because it was a chance to play a team that played like my daughters. Noticed he’s now at the 07 age group. Definitely on my list for good NorCalcoaches.
Placer United stirring it up
- Thread starter tjsoccer
- Start date
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
Several of my DD's BFF's are on Shackleford's team. Very highly regarded by all of them.
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
Yeah... I know your team now. Mass exodus and it's too bad... though half that team was made up of players that defected from other teams! It's going to be interesting to see how all those "personalities" mesh with the existing players and if they'll be welcomed. Only so many minutes, you know?
As the manager at the time I had a few conversations with him. Seemed like a solid individual.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
Yes! Thankfully, our little "group", (albeit now spanning across several clubs,) is a great group of families-but in the end, yes- everyone still wants those minutesYeah... I know your team now. Mass exodus and it's too bad... though half that team was made up of players that defected from other teams! It's going to be interesting to see how all those "personalities" mesh with the existing players and if they'll be welcomed. Only so many minutes, you know?
Not sure about coaching at SR? Seems like the younger teams had some good coaching the last couple years. I’ve heard they are ramping it up as they prepare for MLS. The teams there are good but won’t be elite until they go mls and it’s free, then they will attract more talent I believe. Another problem is a lot of clubs didn’t have the best DA experience so as of now it appears that ECNL has the better league 1-10 in NorCal compared to mls league. That could change but that’s the general consensus right now. Deanza, EQ and SR are very good but it’s a real big drop off after that. Be interesting to see which platform is stronger 2-3 years down the road.
As far as the news article goes, either Placer didn't follow their own "safe play plan" (ie. the plan says that they are supposed enter through some rollup doors, and the picture looks like the kids were congregating near a regular door) <OR> Magnum PI has media contacts from his FBI days and was able to blow this one up (and the news media ran without doing their due diligence). Or it could be a little of both...or just general confusion because the state has given conflicting guidance. What is your take, @Ksoccer07?
As far as the Ethic rules incidents goes, Region 6 is really on a roll since the shutdown. Depending on your perspective, either a problem with rule breakers or snitches:
Folsom - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kyfhyclwby620/
Folsom Again- http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/jnchqchaybozy/
Inter Rage - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/l22s02rq3kwx/
Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/
San Juan - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/imf63bub1j1qw/
Vacaville - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/k6998dmndxwno/
@The Outlaw - I've heard the rumors about San Juan and possible issues with the debt service with their field complex. Is that what you are referring to?
As far as the Ethic rules incidents goes, Region 6 is really on a roll since the shutdown. Depending on your perspective, either a problem with rule breakers or snitches:
Folsom - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kyfhyclwby620/
Folsom Again- http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/jnchqchaybozy/
Inter Rage - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/l22s02rq3kwx/
Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/
San Juan - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/imf63bub1j1qw/
Vacaville - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/k6998dmndxwno/
@The Outlaw - I've heard the rumors about San Juan and possible issues with the debt service with their field complex. Is that what you are referring to?
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
Unfortunately I can't reveal my source but, on a scale of 1 to 10, it's about a 9 on credibility. That said, you're always well sourced for that kind of stuff so if there's validity to it I'll bet you know more than I. I do find it odd they cleaned house on coaches, though, TJ. Look at the roster... 50% newbies. They had some long time, heavy hitters there and only a couple remain. We know turnover is common but usually it's the lower profile names, right? It looks like a salary cut to me.
In terms of the field situation, I don't have any intel and don't know if the issues are related.
I guess if the plan was to go in through rollup doors and it wasn’t being enforced then there lies the problem. Still think it’s a bit weird that a 50-60 year old man is creeping around parking lots filming young girls. If he’s that bored maybe he shouldn’t have retired. He could be a great guy and great agent but that’s not normal IMO. He for sure had the kids best interests and safety in mind and not the fear of losing any of his Roseville comp players to a more competitive club.
I read through the other region 6 stuff. I’ve got an idea, why doesn’t NorCal premier set up leagues, tournaments, play dates etc and get paid for it and stay out of everything else? Why do we need some governing body disciplining the clubs? Kids should be able to leave a club for whatever reason they want whenever they want. Seems to work for every other comp youth sport in the country. If The clubs are worried about kids leaving maybe they could improve their product.
I read through the other region 6 stuff. I’ve got an idea, why doesn’t NorCal premier set up leagues, tournaments, play dates etc and get paid for it and stay out of everything else? Why do we need some governing body disciplining the clubs? Kids should be able to leave a club for whatever reason they want whenever they want. Seems to work for every other comp youth sport in the country. If The clubs are worried about kids leaving maybe they could improve their product.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I had the same "ick" feeling when I saw the photos. I could never imagine creepily snapping photos of a bunch of young girls. Even if Placer was in the wrong, (not debating that,) it's still odd.
And as I said a bit upthread, my DD was at those infamous trainings and they did make them completely optional- it was your own choice to attend. Again-not arguing if they were right/wrong, just stating facts from being there.
I will say this- by the time those "trainings/tryouts/whatever" were happening, the teams were already set. It was all for show. One of the many reasons we left.
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
I would agree with one exception... when kids accept an offer to a club, they've usually taken a spot someone else wanted. So while I'm not a fan of clubs holding kids hostage, and we know they do, I also don't support backdoor deals like recruiting rostered players during a season or promising spots before a legal tryout window. I'll give you an example: This year Davis 05 girls scheduled open tryouts and kids signed up for those tryouts. When the recruiting door opened, just before actual tryouts, Davis poached half a dozen players from Placer's DA... which was dissolving... no tryout required. Then, when the actual tryout date came, they canceled any form of tryouts. So what happens to all the other girls that signed up for tryouts? I was fine with guaranteeing existing players a spot. I think every club did that this spring, but I thought this was kind of a garbage move by Davis... even if it was legal.
This year was an anomaly but I think it's a bit dirty to solicit players currently registered with another club. You'll also run into parents threatening coaches all year long if they can leave at anytime. I believe both sides have to have a skin in the game... but I'm also a proponent of your point... let competition drive the market.
What’s dirty about soliciting players who already have a club? I don’t complain if McDonald’s advertises to Burger King customers. We don’t complain if you can see the Shell sign while you’re at Chevron. ( Denying ECNL entry so you can poach is a completely different question. There is no defending that half of it.)
That said, I like the NPL setup a lot more than ECNL. If your team is Champions League, it is because that team earned it. You don’t get a free ride just because other teams at your club are good, or were good 5 years ago.
"...Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them." -Glitterhater (+1 for the screen name)
So if Davis and Placer are comparable, not sure which age group you are referring to, and then Davis becomes a stronger team with the players from Placer, doesn't that make a case for excluding Placer from ECNL in this region because it would demonstrate that there is not enough talent in the region to field "strong" ECNL teams among three clubs? I guess if Davis, and San Juan, have stellar seasons then the chances for Placer ECNL diminish. Maybe? Possibly?
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I definitely see your thought process here- And I agree, it's possible. I try to remain as neutral as possible here hence why I don't blast which age my DD is in- but I will say that the age group we are most familiar with looks nothing like it did last year, for both A & B teams. As we all know, losing the DA really was a blow. I do hope they are successful, several nice families there still.
Soccerfan2
GOLD
You will find that teams are usually pretty well set before tryouts. Doesn’t matter the club. This only becomes more true as players get older. Coaches generally know who all the players are going in, and have done their research.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I do agree with this, yes.
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
You aren't signing a contract with McDonald's. With comp soccer, you accept an offer, agree to financial terms and give (at a minimum) your verbal agreement for that season. You agree to stay and they agree to keep you. Your analogy is horrible.
By the way, NPL has some bullshit to it. I saw a team get added last year that hadn't even played a game yet. I like the relegation concept but nobody puts it on par with ECNL.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
Do clubs not have to earn the NPL designation? Or is that the dicey issue-that a club can get it as a whole, therefore making it so any team within that club, (despite that teams ability,) is able to be in NPL?
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
Christ... the way players are jumping clubs in that age group, I'm not sure you see the same team ANYWHERE for more than 2 years. Sacramento OR the Bay Area.
I generally agree with you, but the use of the words "Davis poached" has a harsh resonance to it. Everybody in region 6 knew Placer United was going to have a dumpster fire once it became known DA was folding, especially the staff/coaches at the surrounding clubs. Those coaches didn't have to do anything but wait for the emails and phone calls from the Placer players and parents. Most of them already had a relationship with Robo thru PDP. Those Placer players leaving for Davis, and I guess San Juan, to be a part of a unique competitive landscape was inevitable once DA collapsed. What were these clubs to do? Turn them away? I wonder how many players has Placer poached from Davis or any other club over the years. Probably quite a few. The post above had two links to the most recent recruiting violations at Placer United by Paul O'Brien and Kim Gonzalez. So did Paul and Placer United get sanctioned because he was the DOC, and Kim was the one doing the actual recruiting and training outside of the tryout window without notifying the club? It sort of sounds that way when you read the complaints and findings together. That would be a shame if that's why Paul and Jodi decided to leave.
Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/
Outlaw is right. Let "competition drive the market". Recruit all you want. It makes teams better and speeds up the identification process. From a business perspective, in a competitive market, it would make sense for Davis and San Juan to reject Placer's attempt to obtain an ECNL market share. What serious business wouldn't deny a competitor? ECNL probably looked at it from a national perspective rather than a regional perspective and concluded the talent pool for the two local ECNL clubs would be further diluted with a third club. It's hard to have a brand name like Elite Competitive National League (ECNL) and then make decisions that run counter to it.
The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
You're correct... everyone knew... and I hold Davis in pretty high regard because of how they run things. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if every one of those families, and 50 others, called Davis rather than the alternative and Robertson did no recruiting. You're correct that families were salivating. That said, put yourself in the position of the kid that signed up for tryouts a month in advance. This kid has no team or is with a team and only signs up for Davis tryouts because that's where they want to be. Next thing you know, after a handful of phone calls, tryouts get cancelled. I feel for THAT kid. The kid that never got a fair shot. For me, it's not as much about what the Placer families did... or what Robo did... but advertising tryouts and then cancelling because you just "poached" the ones you wanted. I think that was classless. I think they, at the very least, should have gone through with some kind of tryouts. I'm not sure what SJ did... probably something similar. Maybe they were completely limited by Covid.
I don't spend time worrying about clubs recruiting players because I think parents are the biggest offenders there. I know Placer picked up many players when they went DA... so it stands to reason, or perhaps fairness, they lose them the same way. It actually warms my heart in a way because the clubs show little loyalty to families. Karma, right? I just think the turnover takes a little of the fun out of it for players that enjoy rivalries, etc.
It seems to me what a U-Littles coach did with private training is minor compared to other things we've seen unless it went beyond her specifically. I think Paul took the bullet because, at the 10,000' level, someone had to.