Placer United stirring it up

Ksoccer07 said:
If you go in the front door all the kids are bottlenecked through a smaller area and hallway where the back/side door you enter into one of the fields. Every club has good and bad coaches, I have been happy with the coaches we have had. I don’t know 2/4 coaches @tjsoccer talks about but it seems like the best coaches in a lot of sports can be a lil arrogant/strong willed. Not getting ECNL for the girls is a big blow. I’ve watched 03-06 DA girls teams the last couple years and they definitely had the talent there to be granted ECNL but I guess it’s more than just having that. It seems like being 40 min away would be enough space from SJ and Davis? A lot of girls did leave and that sucks although I understand, the boys side loses many kids to Sac Republic as well.
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Been awhile since I walked into Tinker but I remember a lobby area, the hallway/trophy room and then fields. I don't know... not sure I'm buying that it's safer, rather than covert, but if you say so. ;)

Agreed on coaches... good and bad everywhere. Ironic you mention Sac Republic. I hear that's pretty much a shit show on the boy's side. Go for the maroon jersey... regret it because of the disarray and lousy coaching. Maybe not but that's what I've heard. Until they're officially MLS, I doubt it changes if what I've heard is true.
 
Glitterhater said:
I have to say, for all the shit Blues gets, (Norcal not socal,) my DD learned a ton as a little there.
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Seems like there's a lot of good coaching at smaller clubs but kids eventually bail for acronyms. Davis and San Juan aren't developing those players. Definitely some... but are you driving your 10-year old 45 minutes if they aren't ECNL for 3 more years? Some will, but Davis and San Juan are just the recipients of all that. Davis had that 1 big year with local girls but I think everyone else is jumping at, or just prior to, the ECNL age and they're coming from Blues, Placer, Folsom, Rocklin FC, etc.

Blues needs to pull a rabbit out of its hat to compete... and soon... unless Placer doesn't get ECNL. Then the fields are a leg up for Thompson.
 
The Outlaw said:
Seems like there's a lot of good coaching at smaller clubs but kids eventually bail for acronyms. Davis and San Juan aren't developing those players. Definitely some... but are you driving your 10-year old 45 minutes if they aren't ECNL for 3 more years? Some will, but Davis and San Juan are just the recipients of all that. Davis had that 1 big year with local girls but I think everyone else is jumping at, or just prior to, the ECNL age and they're coming from Blues, Placer, Folsom, Rocklin FC, etc.

Blues needs to pull a rabbit out of its hat to compete... and soon... unless Placer doesn't get ECNL. Then the fields are a leg up for Thompson.
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Agreed. Blues has NPL but as you mentioned that's not always enough. Their fields are definitely a silver lining for them. Several of my DD's friends left Placer for Davis this year for ECNL. Her age group for SJ ECNL was already stacked, so they had to go further out. Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them. I hear nothing but great things about Davis' program as a whole.
 
The Outlaw said:
Seems like there's a lot of good coaching at smaller clubs but kids eventually bail for acronyms. Davis and San Juan aren't developing those players. Definitely some... but are you driving your 10-year old 45 minutes if they aren't ECNL for 3 more years? Some will, but Davis and San Juan are just the recipients of all that. Davis had that 1 big year with local girls but I think everyone else is jumping at, or just prior to, the ECNL age and they're coming from Blues, Placer, Folsom, Rocklin FC, etc.

Blues needs to pull a rabbit out of its hat to compete... and soon... unless Placer doesn't get ECNL. Then the fields are a leg up for Thompson.
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My 06 DD prior to DA over the years played against the San Juan team coached Ron Shackleford. We loved playing against them because it was a chance to play a team that played like my daughters. Noticed he’s now at the 07 age group. Definitely on my list for good NorCalcoaches.
 
Glitterhater said:
Agreed. Blues has NPL but as you mentioned that's not always enough. Their fields are definitely a silver lining for them. Several of my DD's friends left Placer for Davis this year for ECNL. Her age group for SJ ECNL was already stacked, so they had to go further out. Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them. I hear nothing but great things about Davis' program as a whole.
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Yeah... I know your team now. Mass exodus and it's too bad... though half that team was made up of players that defected from other teams! It's going to be interesting to see how all those "personalities" mesh with the existing players and if they'll be welcomed. Only so many minutes, you know? :p
 
The Outlaw said:
Yeah... I know your team now. Mass exodus and it's too bad... though half that team was made up of players that defected from other teams! It's going to be interesting to see how all those "personalities" mesh with the existing players and if they'll be welcomed. Only so many minutes, you know? :p
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Yes! Thankfully, our little "group", (albeit now spanning across several clubs,) is a great group of families-but in the end, yes- everyone still wants those minutes
 
Not sure about coaching at SR? Seems like the younger teams had some good coaching the last couple years. I’ve heard they are ramping it up as they prepare for MLS. The teams there are good but won’t be elite until they go mls and it’s free, then they will attract more talent I believe. Another problem is a lot of clubs didn’t have the best DA experience so as of now it appears that ECNL has the better league 1-10 in NorCal compared to mls league. That could change but that’s the general consensus right now. Deanza, EQ and SR are very good but it’s a real big drop off after that. Be interesting to see which platform is stronger 2-3 years down the road.
 
As far as the news article goes, either Placer didn't follow their own "safe play plan" (ie. the plan says that they are supposed enter through some rollup doors, and the picture looks like the kids were congregating near a regular door) <OR> Magnum PI has media contacts from his FBI days and was able to blow this one up (and the news media ran without doing their due diligence). Or it could be a little of both...or just general confusion because the state has given conflicting guidance. What is your take, @Ksoccer07?

As far as the Ethic rules incidents goes, Region 6 is really on a roll since the shutdown. Depending on your perspective, either a problem with rule breakers or snitches:

Folsom - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kyfhyclwby620/
Folsom Again- http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/jnchqchaybozy/
Inter Rage - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/l22s02rq3kwx/
Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/
San Juan - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/imf63bub1j1qw/
Vacaville - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/k6998dmndxwno/

@The Outlaw - I've heard the rumors about San Juan and possible issues with the debt service with their field complex. Is that what you are referring to?
 
tjsoccer said:
As far as the news article goes, either Placer didn't follow their own "safe play plan" (ie. the plan says that they are supposed enter through some rollup doors, and the picture looks like the kids were congregating near a regular door) <OR> Magnum PI has media contacts from his FBI days and was able to blow this one up (and the news media ran without doing their due diligence). Or it could be a little of both...or just general confusion because the state has given conflicting guidance. What is your take, @Ksoccer07?

As far as the Ethic rules incidents goes, Region 6 is really on a roll since the shutdown. Depending on your perspective, either a problem with rule breakers or snitches:

Folsom - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kyfhyclwby620/
Folsom Again- http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/jnchqchaybozy/
Inter Rage - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/l22s02rq3kwx/
Placer's suspension - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/i3it4dh1z6sdn/
Placer Again - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/kdcdschax9b3f/
San Juan - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/imf63bub1j1qw/
Vacaville - http://www.norcalreferees.com/incidents/edit/k6998dmndxwno/

@The Outlaw - I've heard the rumors about San Juan and possible issues with the debt service with their field complex. Is that what you are referring to?
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Unfortunately I can't reveal my source but, on a scale of 1 to 10, it's about a 9 on credibility. That said, you're always well sourced for that kind of stuff so if there's validity to it I'll bet you know more than I. I do find it odd they cleaned house on coaches, though, TJ. Look at the roster... 50% newbies. They had some long time, heavy hitters there and only a couple remain. We know turnover is common but usually it's the lower profile names, right? It looks like a salary cut to me.

In terms of the field situation, I don't have any intel and don't know if the issues are related.
 
I guess if the plan was to go in through rollup doors and it wasn’t being enforced then there lies the problem. Still think it’s a bit weird that a 50-60 year old man is creeping around parking lots filming young girls. If he’s that bored maybe he shouldn’t have retired. He could be a great guy and great agent but that’s not normal IMO. He for sure had the kids best interests and safety in mind and not the fear of losing any of his Roseville comp players to a more competitive club.
I read through the other region 6 stuff. I’ve got an idea, why doesn’t NorCal premier set up leagues, tournaments, play dates etc and get paid for it and stay out of everything else? Why do we need some governing body disciplining the clubs? Kids should be able to leave a club for whatever reason they want whenever they want. Seems to work for every other comp youth sport in the country. If The clubs are worried about kids leaving maybe they could improve their product.
 
Ksoccer07 said:
I guess if the plan was to go in through rollup doors and it wasn’t being enforced then there lies the problem. Still think it’s a bit weird that a 50-60 year old man is creeping around parking lots filming young girls. If he’s that bored maybe he shouldn’t have retired. He could be a great guy and great agent but that’s not normal IMO. He for sure had the kids best interests and safety in mind and not the fear of losing any of his Roseville comp players to a more competitive club.
I read through the other region 6 stuff. I’ve got an idea, why doesn’t NorCal premier set up leagues, tournaments, play dates etc and get paid for it and stay out of everything else? Why do we need some governing body disciplining the clubs? Kids should be able to leave a club for whatever reason they want whenever they want. Seems to work for every other comp youth sport in the country. If The clubs are worried about kids leaving maybe they could improve their product.
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I had the same "ick" feeling when I saw the photos. I could never imagine creepily snapping photos of a bunch of young girls. Even if Placer was in the wrong, (not debating that,) it's still odd.

And as I said a bit upthread, my DD was at those infamous trainings and they did make them completely optional- it was your own choice to attend. Again-not arguing if they were right/wrong, just stating facts from being there.

I will say this- by the time those "trainings/tryouts/whatever" were happening, the teams were already set. It was all for show. One of the many reasons we left.
 
Ksoccer07 said:
I guess if the plan was to go in through rollup doors and it wasn’t being enforced then there lies the problem. Still think it’s a bit weird that a 50-60 year old man is creeping around parking lots filming young girls. If he’s that bored maybe he shouldn’t have retired. He could be a great guy and great agent but that’s not normal IMO. He for sure had the kids best interests and safety in mind and not the fear of losing any of his Roseville comp players to a more competitive club.
I read through the other region 6 stuff. I’ve got an idea, why doesn’t NorCal premier set up leagues, tournaments, play dates etc and get paid for it and stay out of everything else? Why do we need some governing body disciplining the clubs? Kids should be able to leave a club for whatever reason they want whenever they want. Seems to work for every other comp youth sport in the country. If The clubs are worried about kids leaving maybe they could improve their product.
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I would agree with one exception... when kids accept an offer to a club, they've usually taken a spot someone else wanted. So while I'm not a fan of clubs holding kids hostage, and we know they do, I also don't support backdoor deals like recruiting rostered players during a season or promising spots before a legal tryout window. I'll give you an example: This year Davis 05 girls scheduled open tryouts and kids signed up for those tryouts. When the recruiting door opened, just before actual tryouts, Davis poached half a dozen players from Placer's DA... which was dissolving... no tryout required. Then, when the actual tryout date came, they canceled any form of tryouts. So what happens to all the other girls that signed up for tryouts? I was fine with guaranteeing existing players a spot. I think every club did that this spring, but I thought this was kind of a garbage move by Davis... even if it was legal.

This year was an anomaly but I think it's a bit dirty to solicit players currently registered with another club. You'll also run into parents threatening coaches all year long if they can leave at anytime. I believe both sides have to have a skin in the game... but I'm also a proponent of your point... let competition drive the market.
 
The Outlaw said:
I would agree with one exception... when kids accept an offer to a club, they've usually taken a spot someone else wanted. So while I'm not a fan of clubs holding kids hostage, and we know they do, I also don't support backdoor deals like recruiting rostered players during a season or promising spots before a legal tryout window. I'll give you an example: This year Davis 05 girls scheduled open tryouts and kids signed up for those tryouts. When the recruiting door opened, just before actual tryouts, Davis poached half a dozen players from Placer's DA... which was dissolving... no tryout required. Then, when the actual tryout date came, they canceled any form of tryouts. So what happens to all the other girls that signed up for tryouts? I was fine with guaranteeing existing players a spot. I think every club did that this spring, but I thought this was kind of a garbage move by Davis... even if it was legal.

This year was an anomaly but I think it's a bit dirty to solicit players currently registered with another club. You'll also run into parents threatening coaches all year long if they can leave at anytime. I believe both sides have to have a skin in the game... but I'm also a proponent of your point... let competition drive the market.
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What’s dirty about soliciting players who already have a club? I don’t complain if McDonald’s advertises to Burger King customers. We don’t complain if you can see the Shell sign while you’re at Chevron. ( Denying ECNL entry so you can poach is a completely different question. There is no defending that half of it.)

That said, I like the NPL setup a lot more than ECNL. If your team is Champions League, it is because that team earned it. You don’t get a free ride just because other teams at your club are good, or were good 5 years ago.
 
Glitterhater said:
Agreed. Blues has NPL but as you mentioned that's not always enough. Their fields are definitely a silver lining for them. Several of my DD's friends left Placer for Davis this year for ECNL. Her age group for SJ ECNL was already stacked, so they had to go further out. Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them. I hear nothing but great things about Davis' program as a whole.
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"...Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them." -Glitterhater (+1 for the screen name)

So if Davis and Placer are comparable, not sure which age group you are referring to, and then Davis becomes a stronger team with the players from Placer, doesn't that make a case for excluding Placer from ECNL in this region because it would demonstrate that there is not enough talent in the region to field "strong" ECNL teams among three clubs? I guess if Davis, and San Juan, have stellar seasons then the chances for Placer ECNL diminish. Maybe? Possibly?
 
Maskless said:
"...Funnily enough, that Davis ECNL team last year wasn't that strong at all. Solid Placer teams were tying them. The girls they got from Placer should definitely help them." -Glitterhater (+1 for the screen name)

So if Davis and Placer are comparable, not sure which age group you are referring to, and then Davis becomes a stronger team with the players from Placer, doesn't that make a case for excluding Placer from ECNL in this region because it would demonstrate that there is not enough talent in the region to field "strong" ECNL teams among three clubs? I guess if Davis, and San Juan, have stellar seasons then the chances for Placer ECNL diminish. Maybe? Possibly?
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I definitely see your thought process here- And I agree, it's possible. I try to remain as neutral as possible here hence why I don't blast which age my DD is in- but I will say that the age group we are most familiar with looks nothing like it did last year, for both A & B teams. As we all know, losing the DA really was a blow. I do hope they are successful, several nice families there still.
 
Glitterhater said:
I had the same "ick" feeling when I saw the photos. I could never imagine creepily snapping photos of a bunch of young girls. Even if Placer was in the wrong, (not debating that,) it's still odd.

And as I said a bit upthread, my DD was at those infamous trainings and they did make them completely optional- it was your own choice to attend. Again-not arguing if they were right/wrong, just stating facts from being there.

I will say this- by the time those "trainings/tryouts/whatever" were happening, the teams were already set. It was all for show. One of the many reasons we left.
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You will find that teams are usually pretty well set before tryouts. Doesn’t matter the club. This only becomes more true as players get older. Coaches generally know who all the players are going in, and have done their research.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
You will find that teams are usually pretty well set before tryouts. Doesn’t matter the club. This only becomes more true as players get older. Coaches generally know who all the players are going in, and have done their research.
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I do agree with this, yes.
 
dad4 said:
What’s dirty about soliciting players who already have a club? I don’t complain if McDonald’s advertises to Burger King customers. We don’t complain if you can see the Shell sign while you’re at Chevron. ( Denying ECNL entry so you can poach is a completely different question. There is no defending that half of it.)

That said, I like the NPL setup a lot more than ECNL. If your team is Champions League, it is because that team earned it. You don’t get a free ride just because other teams at your club are good, or were good 5 years ago.
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You aren't signing a contract with McDonald's. With comp soccer, you accept an offer, agree to financial terms and give (at a minimum) your verbal agreement for that season. You agree to stay and they agree to keep you. Your analogy is horrible.

By the way, NPL has some bullshit to it. I saw a team get added last year that hadn't even played a game yet. I like the relegation concept but nobody puts it on par with ECNL.
 
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