Ahh...this answer so much and why you thought "blast it". The thinking nowdays is that you shouldn't be afraid to push the ball across the goal mouth. Most of the possession based GKs in the MLS Next and EA are executing this by the start of high school. The CB shouldn't be there...he's actually blocking the passing lane. He should be forming the diamond to assist the LB or the RB if they receive and to be an additional conduit for the GK if the passage opens up. Ideally the GK wants to put it across the goal to the RB who has sprinted and turned wide. Possession based coaches will encourage them to learn this if they are 12 and won't be afraid of them making the mistakes like they do in the video. If they are 12, unless they are academy players, mastering this level 1 ideal is probably the focus of the coaches game and he's one of the good ones that knows what they are doing. Touching it into the space to have the lb collect is some higher level S that first the backs need to know about positional play. Even "blast it" isn't easy if the coach is doing it right...the GK needs to be told where the preference is (e.g. out or 50/50)
PK???
- Thread starter Frank
- Start date
Where did I say "blast it"? All he needed to do was touch it outside to the left because that oncoming striker was going to run right past him.
12-year olds should always be afraid to push the ball across the goal mouth. Especially on a bad surface. And the CB is there because he knows the back pass wasn't good enough and he's doing what any kid would do... panic. And when a dumb keeper kicks the ball up the middle, and right into the path of the oncoming attacker, he's thinking he'll need to clear that deflection when it heads right towards the goal because his keeper is a moron.
A simple touch to the left puts his 3 in the ideal position to grab that ball and turn up field.
1. Not the current thinking. The current CW is switch the line of play to go to. Poor surface doesn't matter otherwise the kids might never get to practice it until they hit MLS Next or ECNL. Learning > win esp if 12.
2. If they are 12, unless they are playing the highest level (in this case for SoCal for U12 is EA?), the players probably don't know the positional play and the GK certainly hasn't been taught it in practice unless he somehow has been put into a class with the olders that is above his level.
3. The backs have to cooperate and learn it. Again since the LB doesn't reenter frame I doubt they've been taught it. If they are U12 in anything other than the EA level, I doubt the coach is running that point. I haven't seen most backs be able to execute that under 2007 right now, except for maybe a handful of academy teams and really top of the board MLS Next Teams. Almost every goalkeeper under the letter leagues is just smacking it up.
4. I'll put this little note down as another instance how in this case (and a former goalkeeper no less!!!) is unwilling to give the GK a pass when he's already covering up a bad pass from the LB (Which you excused as due to the bad surface), but you just gave the CB a huge one. I'm telling you, folks (even former GKS) expect the GKs to be supermen while everyone else gets the excuse.
Explain to me what advantage you see in going to the right back with a ball instead of laying it off to his left back... thus not risking a poor touch or deflection right in front of the box.
The RB has run and checked wide. The line of attack has switched to the other side of the play and the RB is unmarked and has time. The LB will not have time since the striker will turn on the LB (who then hopefully has either the CB, the GK, or the DM to play off).
Whether that's better in this particular circumstance than laying it off to his left back depends on what the rest of the field (which we can't see) is doing. But laying it off to the left back is a "higher level" move which requires actions that both the RB and the LB have to undertake (neither of which seem to do so because the LB doesn't reenter the frame). It requires a higher level of thinking and it's quite possible that it is the ideal situation assuming the RB and LB know what they are doing, depending on how the rest of the chess board is set up. "level 1" though is switch it and they can't even seem to execute that. Gotta walk before you can run.
Higher level? Laying it off to the left back requires far less skill and doesn't put the goal mouth at risk. Taking a touch with an oncoming striker, looking up and surveying the field and putting a perfect ball to the RB, which is what this would take, is far more difficult and risky. You're right in that we can't see the rest of the field, but I wouldn't trust a high school GK to make that pass.
Maybe that's why only AYSO coaches take Coerver courses.
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
This conversation about what a 12 year old keeper should have done is hilarious. I admit, I spend too much time reading and responding to posts, but this is next level
Wow, now I'm really curious when and where you played. So much of this is wrong in current thinking.
-Goalkeepers are absolutely taught now to put it over the goalmouth. In fact they are taught to check in on the sides of the goal and to switch it entirely across the goal depending on the angel of play. I was just the other day watching a great vid on the subject but don't have time to dig it up now.
-"Looking up". They are taught to survey the field and know where everyone is headed BEFORE they even take a touch (which is why it's harder than the field player and why it takes a lot of time to learn it properly and why the switch is taught right after the give and back). If you are looking up you are already doing it wrong (that's why you see sometimes the howlers where they swing and miss at an air ball even at the pro level). That's stuff they are learning at age 11-12
-"I wouldn't trust a high school GK to make that pass". My kid is doing it all the time in practice and all his possession based piers are doing it at the EA2 and above level when they were about 13-15 depending on how precocious they are. It's routine at this point.
-My kid was 14 before he laid it off for the first time to the LB. The LB did exactly what the left back did in this video. Even at 30% pass speed it went out. Again until the 2007 MLS Next I don't see GKs doing this regular (there are some...most are still trying to figure out the other mechanics).
-The complexity comes in thinking of the pass through space instead of linearly. 12 year olds simply aren't thinking that way, except at the highest of high levels.
-you are displaying more of the win v . develop mentality
It's free therapy for Grace. Can you imagine what she'd pay a therapist every month?
dk_b
GOLD
I was thinking something similar. When @Frank posted the clip, it was about the call but it turned into an analysis of a young keeper who is being criticized/corrected about his play even though he did not ask for this to be analyzed (nor, in my opinion, should a 12yo be analyzed in a public forum unless he's approved the clip for teaching purposes).
(and, no, I never played GK at a high level but I have raised one that's doing pretty well and, even with her pre-college success back in the day, I would not have wanted her clips to be analyzed on a public bulletin board (she (and even I, as dad) understands that she is now subject to greater scrutiny)
My point expressly is that the GK shouldn't be criticized. 1) it's only partly their fault, and 2) the most likely explanation in all this is that it's a coach doing a very good job of teaching 12 year olds how to play a possession game. They duffed it. It happens at that age and is part of the learning process. The coach should be proud for actually teaching his kids possession and should give props to keeper for trying to maintain that possession under that level of adversity instead of criticizing the keeper for the foul which only an eagle eyed ref would spot.
dk_b
GOLD
Criticized or analyzed or whatever . . . I understand the pull of the topic on a board like this but when the clip was clearly posted to assess the REF, not the GK (this entire section is called, "C'mon Ref!"), it strikes me as inappropriate (whether targeting the GK, the backs, the coach). It would be different if the GK's parent posted it in the GK forum asking for analysis. I mean, he's just a kid.
Fair. Point taken. It raises the question though of whether we should ever post a clip by which a player renders a foul from a child that is not our own. I'd be o.k. with a rule that say no because the question raised isn't just whether the ref correctly awarded a foul, but whether the player engaged in otherwise improper conduct that resulted in a foul. Doubly so if the question is should the player have been carded.
I'm gonna have to agree with Grace on this one but put simply:
You can't judge whether a ref made the correct call on a foul without analyzing the actions of the player.
It may sound like I was criticizing a child but I was just criticizing Grace's analysis of the situation.
My 2¢-- a more experienced coach than I once told my sometimes-goalkeeper son that when you make a mistake, don't make another. In this particular case, that would mean that the keeper on recognizing the weak pass back should immediately get the ball out of trouble by booting it up or off the field.
dk_b
GOLD
Yes - was there a foul or not? Just like, “was that a handball?” “Was that a clean tackle?” Etc. But the analysis has gone well beyond what the ref might have seen and why the ref called what the ref called. Whether the kid found a teammate or cleared the ball or did something else is irrelevant to the original post and strikes me as odd and inappropriate for this forum. This is a kid who did not sign up to be publicly analyzed with respect to all the steps he should or should not have taken in the moment. The question was not - nor should it have been (unless the initial poster was the player himself) - “what could the GK have done to avoid a foul, prevented a goal and done the ‘proper’ thing to advance his development in the game?”
The board is nothing if not consistent, however, so I’m not surprised.
One if the objection is that the remainder did not stay on topic, that's a fair objection (but one that I happen to disagree with). I don't subscribe to topic rigidity...if the conversation is interesting take it where it may go. The remedy is if you are uninterested, don't read or block. Others may disagree, and I do see their point. However, I note that by objecting to the drift in conversation, you yourself have now drifted the conversation. So it goes in online forums.
Two if the objection is a line drawing one (it's o.k. to criticize a player conduct for whether a foul was committed, but it's not o.k. to criticize the tactics of the team that led to the foul), that's a silly nonsensical one which has absolutely no basis in reason. I would be just as offended if some third party without authorization (I think we are all assuming the OP had the authorization to post this video) posted a video accusing my kid of a foul that wasn't called v. a tactical mistake. In fact I would be more offended by the foul (particularly if it was for a call for a card for misconduct) than a mistake (because they are kids and just learning).
I'm willing to buy the premise that we shouldn't post videos showing the errors of those under 18 unless we are the parents of said error making player. That's a completely 100% legitimate gripe. But it's either all o.k. or none of it is.
Close analysis of situations that turned out badly is how we learn from our mistakes.
Yeah but I get his point. Do we really want folks criticizing our kids publicly for their mistakes (whether foul or tactical error) on forums, especially considering they are children? Where I disagree with him is fouls are o.k. but the tactics which led up to the foul aren't-- a foul (unless it's made strategically) is by definition a mistake and you can't criticize the ref without criticizing the player. There's no way the foul in this video is strategic if it results in a penalty/card.
dk_b
GOLD
I do scroll on by most of the time and did choose to participate in this one. And despite many justifications people are using to analyze/criticize tactics of a youth player, the analysis/criticism rings hollow and the justifications are self-serving. In a different context (not a public board, for example) or with express permission, I’d feel differently.
And obviously online discussions often veer to a different topic. That’s clearly not the issue here - as I know you (@Grace T.) have noted. If the clip in question were of a college-age or older player, I’d have little issue. (My favorite gk was given (or earned) a red card in the college season. If someone posted that clip and it was analyzed as here, I might not have liked it but I would not have had any criticism)