PK???

[Grace T.]

I agree with you that many bad decisions led to the team being in this position of forcing the goalie to make this decision. I disagree with you that clearing the ball when you don't see passing alternative is an AYSO move. Preventing a goal is the primary duty of a goal keeper, not possession. A keeper needs to learn how to recognize when to pass and when to clear the ball.

A goalie with good footwork and accurate passing skills under pressure would be able to make that pass. I've see it plenty from goalies to midfielders, etc.

I'm also of the mindset that it's good this happened because the goalie and the entire team can learn from their mistakes. It's no big deal. It's how players get better through the years.

I'm not saying it's an AYSO move. I'm saying that some coaches (either because they don't understand the mechanics of the back pass or because they are rigorously possession based) would call out the keeper for blasting it up instead of trying to retain possession. Like a kicked dog that's been kicked one too many times, the keepers then do stuff like this because someone else (in this case the ref) will get the blame from the coach/parents whereas they'll get the blame for "going AYSO" if they blast it up. There's also a decision to be made in clearing it that needs to be made clear to the keeper: ideally you pick out a player long to receive it....but if not do you blast it center and long, blast it out and wide, blast it to the wingers or to the backs (center long carries the risk of interception when everyone is out of position, out wide means it could very well go out). I suspect this team has been instructed to work on their possession, hence the decision by the goalkeeper, because you are correct: the normal default in this type of situation where your lb has mishandled the ball is to rocket it.

I disagree the pass to the RB is completable. The only way that gets there is if the two attackers from the opposite team aren't paying attention. And having it intercepted is way worse from the keeper's point of view (then it's entirely 100% his fault) than just trying to muscle his way out of it (I fought for it but the ref is the bad guy that called it against me).

As to whether it's a big dead, it depends on the age/level. As I said previously, flight 1 good for them for trying, it's how you learn...MLS Next what the hell were you thinking.

 

[Slobodan]

No not all his bad. The timing problem was partially the function of a bad pass into him. If it had been firmer, quicker he would have not had to move up and had more time. He also can't play it off the one touch because none of his other players are in proper position. His only options were to smack it up or kick it out. We don't know what instruction the coach has given in the event his players are not open....some will come down on the keeper if they don't try to maintain possession since they want possession before anything so the kids can learn.



Doesn't the striker partially cause the trip by reaching into to try and get the ball?

He could have easily hit that ball wide left, to the back that sent him the slow ball, and cleared any danger. "if" this and "if" that... defenders don't always hit perfect balls... especially on a shitty surface. And please don't say he couldn't have hit a 90-degree ball to his left and avoided the striker... because that's exactly the right play. Oops... too late... you already did.

P.S. - There is bias with keepers for sure... they 99% of the time get the benefit of the doubt. All a keeper has to do, and I was one for many years, is go down and raise a hand for the foul.

 

[sockma]

I'm not saying it's an AYSO move. I'm saying that some coaches (either because they don't understand the mechanics of the back pass or because they are rigorously possession based) would call out the keeper for blasting it up instead of trying to retain possession. Like a kicked dog that's been kicked one too many times, the keepers then do stuff like this because someone else (in this case the ref) will get the blame from the coach/parents whereas they'll get the blame for "going AYSO" if they blast it up. There's also a decision to be made in clearing it that needs to be made clear to the keeper: ideally you pick out a player long to receive it....but if not do you blast it center and long, blast it out and wide, blast it to the wingers or to the backs (center long carries the risk of interception when everyone is out of position, out wide means it could very well go out). I suspect this team has been instructed to work on their possession, hence the decision by the goalkeeper, because you are correct: the normal default in this type of situation where your lb has mishandled the ball is to rocket it.

I disagree the pass to the RB is completable. The only way that gets there is if the two attackers from the opposite team aren't paying attention. And having it intercepted is way worse from the keeper's point of view (then it's entirely 100% his fault) than just trying to muscle his way out of it (I fought for it but the ref is the bad guy that called it against me).

As to whether it's a big dead, it depends on the age/level. As I said previously, flight 1 good for them for trying, it's how you learn...MLS Next what the hell were you thinking.

That's a lot of background information I wasn't aware of from the video.

Do you think his 80 year old grandma in her wheelchair would also yell at him for not hitting a perfect pass to an upfield teammate?

 

[Grace T.]

That's a lot of background information I wasn't aware of from the video.

Do you think his 80 year old grandma in her wheelchair would also yell at him for not hitting a perfect pass to an upfield teammate?

You are making my point for me....we don't know what the coach has instructed him to do so we are speculating as to the coaches preferences. As I said, given that most coaches would tell the GK to clear this, I suspect the coach in this instance has been hammering the GK to retain possession.

He could have easily hit that ball wide left, to the back that sent him the slow ball, and cleared any danger. "if" this and "if" that... defenders don't always hit perfect balls... especially on a shitty surface. And please don't say he couldn't have hit a 90-degree ball to his left and avoided the striker... because that's exactly the right play. Oops... too late... you already did.

P.S. - There is bias with keepers for sure... they 99% of the time get the benefit of the doubt. All a keeper has to do, and I was one for many years, is go down and raise a hand for the foul.

He certainly could have hit it 90 degree ball to his left...would have gone out....again coaches preferences and as sockma points out we don't know what's happening up the field and who is open. Could not have hit it back to the LB that gave him a slow pass. Rather than check wide to the far left, the LB sort of slows then just stands there. The running striker overtakes him. If that striker can stick his foot in to get the ball he most certainly has the skill to stick his foot out and intercept any ball into the LB

Sure sure sure bad surface etc...that ball though was hit too softly even if it had been a grass field at great park or a turf field.

 

[Grace T.]

You are making my point for me....we don't know what the coach has instructed him to do so we are speculating as to the coaches preferences. As I said, given that most coaches would tell the GK to clear this, I suspect the coach in this instance has been hammering the GK to retain possession.

He certainly could have hit it 90 degree ball to his left...would have gone out....again coaches preferences and as sockma points out we don't know what's happening up the field and who is open. Could not have hit it back to the LB that gave him a slow pass. Rather than check wide to the far left, the LB sort of slows then just stands there. The running striker overtakes him. If that striker can stick his foot in to get the ball he most certainly has the skill to stick his foot out and intercept any ball into the LB

Sure sure sure bad surface etc...that ball though was hit too softly even if it had been a grass field at great park or a turf field.

p.s. that striker does a great job of coming in at a fishhook angel to take away the passing lane into the LB. Even crouches into a ready stance to intercept in case it goes back to the LB. The striker reads the play very well. Bravo.

 

[sockma]

You are making my point for me....we don't know what the coach has instructed him to do so we are speculating as to the coaches preferences. As I said, given that most coaches would tell the GK to clear this, I suspect the coach in this instance has been hammering the GK to retain possession.

He certainly could have hit it 90 degree ball to his left...would have gone out....again coaches preferences and as sockma points out we don't know what's happening up the field and who is open. Could not have hit it back to the LB that gave him a slow pass. Rather than check wide to the far left, the LB sort of slows then just stands there. The running striker overtakes him. If that striker can stick his foot in to get the ball he most certainly has the skill to stick his foot out and intercept any ball into the LB

Sure sure sure bad surface etc...that ball though was hit too softly even if it had been a grass field at great park or a turf field.

You're right - he did keep possession by holding onto the ball too long and thinking his size was going to beat out a skilled smaller player. His team got the ball back after the PK was scored.

No matter what has been taught to him, what he did wasn't it. Taking too long and allowing the attacker to challenge for the ball is never correct in any circumstance, under any playing or teaching style.

 

[Grace T.]

You're right - he did keep possession by holding onto the ball too long and thinking his size was going to beat out a skilled smaller player. His team got the ball back after the PK was scored.

No matter what has been taught to him, what he did wasn't it. Taking too long and allowing the attacker to challenge for the ball is never correct in any circumstance, under any playing or teaching style.

Funny. Like it. Don't disagree here. I said expressly he took too long. My initial point is that all 3 defenders on screen were also screwing up, so the fault here does not lie entirely with the GK, but is shared with the other 3. If the coach hasn't provided instruction to the keeper as to the preferences when the 3 short options are taken away, then the coach shares responsibility as well. And if you are going to give props, also give props to the striker that read the play very well and the ref for the eagle eyes.

 

[Code]

You're right - he did keep possession by holding onto the ball too long and thinking his size was going to beat out a skilled smaller player. His team got the ball back after the PK was scored.

No matter what has been taught to him, what he did wasn't it. Taking too long and allowing the attacker to challenge for the ball is never correct in any circumstance, under any playing or teaching style.

100%. Keeper hesitated to make a decision and take action. Could have cleared it, one-touch pass, had time for a two-touch pass, or could have dribbled it away at least. He recieved it then hesitated on any decision involving playing the ball, and instead played physical with the attacker. Goalie earned the Yellow card and PK on this one.

 

[Grace T.]

100%. Keeper hesitated to make a decision and take action. Could have cleared it, one-touch pass, had time for a two-touch pass, or could have dribbled it away at least. He recieved it then hesitated on any decision involving playing the ball, and instead played physical with the attacker. Goalie earned the Yellow card and PK on this one.

Again not saying the keeper didn’t make a mistake or erred in playing physical but the hesitation to make a decision is understandable. First he got a bad ball so had to deal with that mistake first. Then he looks up and none of his 3 near answers, the go to answers, are in position. He clearly had a brain fart about what do I do. Unless there was someone open far (and the keeper is capable of hitting that person), the answer is usually clear or kick it out….but we don’t know if his coach would have been ok with that. I think in his mind he decided to dribble it which is usually the wrong answer for the reasons we see.

 

[Slobodan]

You are making my point for me....we don't know what the coach has instructed him to do so we are speculating as to the coaches preferences. As I said, given that most coaches would tell the GK to clear this, I suspect the coach in this instance has been hammering the GK to retain possession.

He certainly could have hit it 90 degree ball to his left...would have gone out....again coaches preferences and as sockma points out we don't know what's happening up the field and who is open. Could not have hit it back to the LB that gave him a slow pass. Rather than check wide to the far left, the LB sort of slows then just stands there. The running striker overtakes him. If that striker can stick his foot in to get the ball he most certainly has the skill to stick his foot out and intercept any ball into the LB

Sure sure sure bad surface etc...that ball though was hit too softly even if it had been a grass field at great park or a turf field.

It would have gone out if he kicked the shit out of it. If he hit it with 30% power, the oncoming striker would have blown right past him and the left back would have gathered the clearance. Coaches don't tell goalkeepers how to clear a ball. It's instinctive and hopefully been covered 100 times in training. No more "if" scenarios, Grace.

 

[Grace T.]

It would have gone out if he kicked the shit out of it. If he hit it with 30% power, the oncoming striker would have blown right past him and the left back would have gathered the clearance. Coaches don't tell goalkeepers how to clear a ball. It's instinctive and hopefully been covered 100 times in training. No more "if" scenarios, Grace.

Absolutely 1000% not true. Coaches (at least the good ones that know what they are talking about) absolutely give instructions to their goalkeepers as to the hierarchy of their distribution: go x, then y, then z, then a, then b, and if nothing else is open either out (and where out do you want it) or keep it in into a 50/50 ball. That doesn't come from the GK coaches either (who other than MLS academy coaches (and then only for the oldest) since 90% of the time won't be on the field with the GKs)...that has to come for the coach. It's also up to the coach to stand up if the GK blasts it up and say that's absolutely what I wanted because your 3 defenders were out of positions when the parents/other players groan "why'd you turn it over/kick it out...don't go back again next time to Larry!"

p.s. if the GK coach isn't training clearances technique with the GK he isn't doing it right either

 

[Slobodan]

Absolutely 1000% not true. Coaches (at least the good ones that know what they are talking about) absolutely give instructions to their goalkeepers as to the hierarchy of their distribution: go x, then y, then z, then a, then b, and if nothing else is open either out (and where out do you want it) or keep it in into a 50/50 ball. That doesn't come from the GK coaches either (who other than MLS academy coaches (and then only for the oldest) since 90% of the time won't be on the field with the GKs)...that has to come for the coach. It's also up to the coach to stand up if the GK blasts it up and say that's absolutely what I wanted because your 3 defenders were out of positions when the parents/other players groan "why'd you turn it over/kick it out...don't go back again next time to Larry!"

p.s. if the GK coach isn't training clearances technique with the GK he isn't doing it right either

LMAO! Wait, x, y and then z? LMAO! There's no "hierarchy" of distribution on a bad pass back. Mitigate the threat. That's the "hierarchy" for what we saw in the video. You're talking about distribution and playing out of the back. That's not what happened in the video.

Please... just stop.

 

[Grace T.]

LMAO! Wait, x, y and then z? LMAO! There's no "hierarchy" of distribution on a bad pass back. Mitigate the threat. That's the "hierarchy" for what we saw in the video. You're talking about distribution and playing out of the back. That's not what happened in the video.

Please... just stop.

What the hell are you talking about??? There absolutely is a hierarchy of distribution for every type of distribution including the backpass. ANY coach worth their salt will absolutely make these instruction clear to the GK. ANY GK coach worth their salt will absolutely tell the GK he must have this conversation with the coach (along with the goalkick, hand distribution, free kick strategy and corner strategy conversations). The first is usually always switch it to the other side (if they are just learning it that's probably why the GK turns towards the RB), but every coach has different priorities. On the last priority the coach needs to make a decision out (and if so where) or in to 50/50. You are talking nonsense, which is exactly the problem with this type of scenario (first instinct is always blame the GK, when from the video it's very clear 3 other players didn't do their job which also led to the situation...most people, including clearly yourself, don't understand the dynamics at work here, which is why the coach needs to issue clear instructions to the GK and be prepared to back up the GK if the GK follows those instructions and to instruct the 3 players for not providing the higher priority outlets).

Your idea of passing it into space so the LB can pick it up works, but only if these are higher level players that have stopped thinking just linearly and have been training the pass lanes. The RB clearly doesn't know that because he is slowing down and jogging. The LB doesn't go into frame near the end which indicates the LB has probably also slown down and isn't in a position to collect such a ball.

 

[Yak]

Absolutely 1000% not true. Coaches (at least the good ones that know what they are talking about) absolutely give instructions to their goalkeepers as to the hierarchy of their distribution: go x, then y, then z, then a, then b, and if nothing else is open either out (and where out do you want it) or keep it in into a 50/50 ball. That doesn't come from the GK coaches either (who other than MLS academy coaches (and then only for the oldest) since 90% of the time won't be on the field with the GKs)...that has to come for the coach. It's also up to the coach to stand up if the GK blasts it up and say that's absolutely what I wanted because your 3 defenders were out of positions when the parents/other players groan "why'd you turn it over/kick it out...don't go back again next time to Larry!"

p.s. if the GK coach isn't training clearances technique with the GK he isn't doing it right either

There are clubs other than MLS academies that have keeper coaches who attend most games. IMO, it’s an important consideration in picking the right club for keepers.

 

[Grace T.]

There are clubs other than MLS academies that have keeper coaches who attend most games. IMO, it’s an important consideration in picking the right club for keepers.

They are a rarity, however, and it's difficult to do especially among the olders because of the letter leagues and the fact that they are scattered at different venues all over the southland. I've found they are either small local clubs (which are disappearing) where the GK coach is at home games or one of the very large clubs that has separate male/female older/youngers GK coaches. Otherwise, with NPL in silverlakes, EA at some high school, MLS Next at Great Park and ECNL in Vegas, it's impossible for one person to manage.

 

[Slobodan]

What the hell are you talking about??? There absolutely is a hierarchy of distribution for every type of distribution including the backpass. ANY coach worth their salt will absolutely make these instruction clear to the GK. ANY GK coach worth their salt will absolutely tell the GK he must have this conversation with the coach (along with the goalkick, hand distribution, free kick strategy and corner strategy conversations). The first is usually always switch it to the other side (if they are just learning it that's probably why the GK turns towards the RB), but every coach has different priorities. On the last priority the coach needs to make a decision out (and if so where) or in to 50/50. You are talking nonsense, which is exactly the problem with this type of scenario (first instinct is always blame the GK, when from the video it's very clear 3 other players didn't do their job which also led to the situation...most people, including clearly yourself, don't understand the dynamics at work here, which is why the coach needs to issue clear instructions to the GK and be prepared to back up the GK if the GK follows those instructions and to instruct the 3 players for not providing the higher priority outlets).

Your idea of passing it into space so the LB can pick it up works, but only if these are higher level players that have stopped thinking just linearly and have been training the pass lanes. The RB clearly doesn't know that because he is slowing down and jogging. The LB doesn't go into frame near the end which indicates the LB has probably also slown down and isn't in a position to collect such a ball.

Sorry... I can't read it. Everything with you is a novel and I don't have that kind of time. I wore a size 10 keeper glove. Reusch. How about you?

 

[Grace T.]

Sorry... I can't read it. Everything with you is a novel and I don't have that kind of time. I wore a size 10 keeper glove. Reusch. How about you?

In the good old days, they didn't have Reusch...you got what they had at the soccer store in pink. Have my Level III from United Goalkeeper coaches, my D from CalSouth, two other certs from companies like Coever, and I write on the subject for a rag. You?

 

[Slobodan]

In the good old days, they didn't have Reusch...you got what they had at the soccer store in pink. Have my Level III from United Goalkeeper coaches, my D from CalSouth, two other certs from companies like Coever, and I write on the subject for a rag. You?

It's "Coerver". Did they spell it correctly on your certificate?

In the good old days, they played with a pig bladder and bamboo goals. I don't write on the subject... I actually played the position.

 

[Grace T.]

It's "Coerver". Did they spell it correctly on your certificate?

In the good old days, they played with a pig bladder and bamboo goals. I don't write on the subject... I actually played the position.

You taking the spelling taskmaster job away from your pal espola I see. I make up the time by typing fast...lot of errors....while you skip over my diatgribes...actually made another error you missed....it's United Coaches (the old NSCAA).

Telling you...pink gloves made all the dif....in any case unless you went through the program in the last 10 years neither of our experiences make much difference. Goalkeeping has been elevated to a science that unless you've kept up with the education, it gets old very quick.

 

[Slobodan]

You taking the spelling taskmaster job away from your pal espola I see. I make up the time by typing fast...lot of errors....while you skip over my diatgribes...actually made another error you missed....it's United Coaches (the old NSCAA).

Telling you...pink gloves made all the dif....in any case unless you went through the program in the last 10 years neither of our experiences make much difference. Goalkeeping has been elevated to a science that unless you've kept up with the education, it gets old very quick.

If you used fewer words, you wouldn't need to type so quickly. And I told you I wasn't going to read it. Can't miss what I didn't see. I know many lettered coaches that read a lot, watched hours of video and never actually played. They took a picture in a zip up that covered their entire neck... so they look the part. Bonus points if they have an accent or played "professionally" in Guinness leagues in Scotland. My favorite is the 'Frans Hoek' diploma. It's right up there with Coerver.

I think it's great you wore pink gloves. I once had a pink Uhlsport jersey... before October was fashionable. My point is that, according to what was shown in the video, coaching and x, y, z aren't relevant. In that moment, the coach is inhaling, his pupils dilate and he's praying his keeper gets off the line in time to push the ball to the outside. Period.