Parents from certain teams

Nefutous said:
I was going to print this out and hand it to a few parents I know on the sidelines but then I thought twice due to the language you use in #1. Do you think you can republish a PG version?
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I will be the first to admit that there are some refs that don't do themselves any favors. But taking it upon yourself to attempt to publically humiliate another human being does absolutely nothing positive.
1: It teaches your kids a lack of respect for authority. You think your kids will always have great bosses? Why don't you just teach your kid "If you have a bad boss, screw him, and tell it to his face". It does not matter if authority is wielding its power ineffectively, Authority is authority, and you will not get far in life if you throw a temper tantrum everytime you think you could have done something better than your boss.
2: It teaches your children to "tilt" when faced with adversity. Harassing the referee just takes your kids focus off soccer. Instead of trying to win, some kids become more obsessed with counting how many fouls the ref calls against them. I see it all the time. You think they can mentally stew on referees mistakes and then be able to track the man he is supposed to be marking from his peripheral vision while making a heads up counterattack? No.
3: The bad referee is just going to view himself as a martyr and become further set in his ways. If a referee is ever going to be told he did a bad job, it will most likely be by one of his peers and it most certainly will not be said in public. The last person a referee will ever have an "aha" moment from is a pissed off parent.
4: It detracts from being able to enjoy potentially good game. Self explanatory.
5: It makes you look like a child. No seriously. Search "bad referee" or any other derivation in YouTube and find me a video where the parents comes off as looking better than the referee. There isn't one. Even when the referee completely missed an obvious call, somehow the parents always look like more awful and whiny.

I have never seen a referee make a call just because the other teams asks for it. It may seem that way because 1: there is actually a literal amount of time it takes to physically bring the whistle to the mouth (jesus parents). 2: Referees are waiting for advantage 3. The referee has no clue what happened and is looking for clues and is replaying the play in his head 4. He is human and is trying to remember which way red is attacking this half.

Calm down, cheer or shut up, and watch the game.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
I will be the first to admit that there are some refs that don't do themselves any favors. But taking it upon yourself to attempt to publically humiliate another human being does absolutely nothing positive.
1: It teaches your kids a lack of respect for authority. You think your kids will always have great bosses? Why don't you just teach your kid "If you have a bad boss, screw him, and tell it to his face". It does not matter if authority is wielding its power ineffectively, Authority is authority, and you will not get far in life if you throw a temper tantrum everytime you think you could have done something better than your boss.
2: It teaches your children to "tilt" when faced with adversity. Harassing the referee just takes your kids focus off soccer. Instead of trying to win, some kids become more obsessed with counting how many fouls the ref calls against them. I see it all the time. You think they can mentally stew on referees mistakes and then be able to track the man he is supposed to be marking from his peripheral vision while making a heads up counterattack? No.
3: The bad referee is just going to view himself as a martyr and become further set in his ways. If a referee is ever going to be told he did a bad job, it will most likely be by one of his peers and it most certainly will not be said in public. The last person a referee will ever have an "aha" moment from is a pissed off parent.
4: It detracts from being able to enjoy potentially good game. Self explanatory.
5: It makes you look like a child. No seriously. Search "bad referee" or any other derivation in YouTube and find me a video where the parents comes off as looking better than the referee. There isn't one. Even when the referee completely missed an obvious call, somehow the parents always look like more awful and whiny.

I have never seen a referee make a call just because the other teams asks for it. It may seem that way because 1: there is actually a literal amount of time it takes to physically bring the whistle to the mouth (jesus parents). 2: Referees are waiting for advantage 3. The referee has no clue what happened and is looking for clues and is replaying the play in his head 4. He is human and is trying to remember which way red is attacking this half.

Calm down, cheer or shut up, and watch the game.
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Sure. Why don’t you come down off that cross ref and face reality. Hey it’s rough when your kid’s team plays 11 v. 12 or more. Sucks when the ref clearly favors the other team and is like a 12th player. We all see it and It happens all too often.
Take a deep breadth before you go out on the field and do your job honestly. Not for the parents but for the kids.
 
MijoPlumber said:
Sure. Why don’t you come down off that cross ref and face reality. Hey it’s rough when your kid’s team plays 11 v. 12 or more. Sucks when the ref clearly favors the other team and is like a 12th player. We all see it and It happens all too often.
Take a deep breadth before you go out on the field and do your job honestly. Not for the parents but for the kids.
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You clearly missed the point
nickyoung-miss-three-pointer.gif


At no point did I deny it happens, see first sentence. Also, look closer at point #3. Every single argument assumes the ref is bending you over, and yet, each point still maintains you act like an adult despite the tragic affront to human dignity that is a bad referee for 60-90 minutes.

No referee favors a team. They favor a playing style, a physicality style, a coaching style, an attitude. I have reffed the same exact way style-wise in the same day, and have had one game where both teams think I arbitrated with divine inspiration and the other game 1 team thinks I emerged from Satan's crack. I assure you, it is mostly their perception based on their playing style. I tend to only call pulling and pushing when it is significant whereas I call tripping fouls pretty tight. Enter one team that trips to challenge and another team that pulls to challenge and you have a one-sided game foul-count wise. But hey, you can keep doing the same thing and complaining because what is the definition of insanity right?

The wise team/coach/player/parent will adjust to any referee and thereby significantly improve their chances on the margin.

And don't imply that referees ever intend to do their job's dishonestly. The only thing worse than woe is me thinking is conspiracy theorists.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
You clearly missed the point
nickyoung-miss-three-pointer.gif


At no point did I deny it happens, see first sentence. Also, look closer at point #3. Every single argument assumes the ref is bending you over, and yet, each point still maintains you act like an adult despite the tragic affront to human dignity that is a bad referee for 60-90 minutes.

No referee favors a team. They favor a playing style, a physicality style, a coaching style, an attitude. I have reffed the same exact way style-wise in the same day, and have had one game where both teams think I arbitrated with divine inspiration and the other game 1 team thinks I emerged from Satan's crack. I assure you, it is mostly their perception based on their playing style. I tend to only call pulling and pushing when it is significant whereas I call tripping fouls pretty tight. Enter one team that trips to challenge and another team that pulls to challenge and you have a one-sided game foul-count wise. But hey, you can keep doing the same thing and complaining because what is the definition of insanity right?

The wise team/coach/player/parent will adjust to any referee and thereby significantly improve their chances on the margin.

And don't imply that referees ever intend to do their job's dishonestly. The only thing worse than woe is me thinking is conspiracy theorists.
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I am sure that every game YOU refereed was fair. You are not every referee.
 
espola said:
I am sure that every game YOU refereed was fair. You are not every referee.
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All I have done in this thread so far is explain how to behave in the moment you experience what you believe to be a bad or unfair ref. (I have seen refs do a great job but some people still feel he did a terrible job)

If you want to effect change after you experience a bad referee, then follow Abraham Lincolns advice:
"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise...--I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed...If such arise, let proper legal provisions be made for them with the least possible delay; but, till then, let them, if not too intolerable, be borne with.
There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law (parent yelling). In any case that arises, as for instance, the promulgation of abolitionism, one of two positions is necessarily true; that is, the thing is right within itself, and therefore deserves the protection of all law and all good citizens; or, it is wrong, and therefore proper to be prohibited by legal enactments; and in neither case, is the interposition of mob law, either necessary, justifiable, or excusable."
That is from his Lyceum Speech. Possibly the greatest speech written in human history.

And if you are skeptical about the formal/informal review process that referees go through, I have a different take than bald and surf ref about how effective those are.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
All I have done in this thread so far is explain how to behave in the moment you experience what you believe to be a bad or unfair ref. (I have seen refs do a great job but some people still feel he did a terrible job)

If you want to effect change after you experience a bad referee, then follow Abraham Lincolns advice:
"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise...--I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed...If such arise, let proper legal provisions be made for them with the least possible delay; but, till then, let them, if not too intolerable, be borne with.
There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law (parent yelling). In any case that arises, as for instance, the promulgation of abolitionism, one of two positions is necessarily true; that is, the thing is right within itself, and therefore deserves the protection of all law and all good citizens; or, it is wrong, and therefore proper to be prohibited by legal enactments; and in neither case, is the interposition of mob law, either necessary, justifiable, or excusable."
That is from his Lyceum Speech. Possibly the greatest speech written in human history.

And if you are skeptical about the formal/informal review process that referees go through, I have a different take than bald and surf ref about how effective those are.
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I have had formal and informal discussions with referees myself. How many times have you heard one say that he is totally fair and does the best job he can, but "That guy I worked with last month..."?
 
JJP said:
And let’s face it. There are some incredibly bad coaches and refs out there. If some adult wants to criticize a shitty coach or ref and is willing to live with the consequences, then it’s on him or her. I’m not getting involved to say “tut tut, that’s improper” and regulate grown men and women as if they’re children like you want to.
I get it that you think people who say things you disagree with are the problem. What I’m telling you is, people like you who don’t stick to their own lane are the bigger problem.
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I've addressed referees, but for bad coaches. I've always thought in team games that a poor decision done as a team are almost always better than a good decision that not everyone is on the same page on. Parents trying to out-coach the coach usually end up doing more harm than good from a trying to win perspective.

Your American freedom allows you to find a new coach/team, and it also gives you the freedom to sabotage and undermine your own coach. But that is none of my business. As far as criticizing the president, we can do that, but we aren't sending additional orders to our troops that may confuse them. That's what you do when you try to coach the kids with your proximity. If you did the same thing to the troops as you do to your kids, that is at worst treason, and at best interfering, so still illegal.

Criticize the coach after the game, not during it. Criticize the president after his decisions, meanwhile you carry them out in the moment.
 
espola said:
I have had formal and informal discussions with referees myself. How many times have you heard one say that he is totally fair and does the best job he can, but "That guy I worked with last month..."?
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I would say that "the one ref last month was bad", not unfair. And I have reffed with a guy that showed up to his game 10 minutes before with alcohol on his breath (adult game though). The players definitely noticed it, but I thought the way he reffed that day was actually an improvement on his usual performance.

The formal/informal process is all the refs generally know how each of their peers are as a ref. The consistently bad ones are recognized as such and are assigned to the lower level games. My apologies to the teams that have to experience them, but if we had more refs we could replace the bad refs instead of just shunt them sideways.

If a parent goes to the referee tent and tells the assignor "That referee could not manage/handle/control that game" and that is all they say. Do it. An individual complaint might not do much, but if an assignor is consistently getting complaints aabout the same ref from different people, it will definitely effect his perception from his assignor. And that is kind of the last thing we want as a referee.
 
outside! said:
SD County seems to have a surplus of youth referees. My son has not been able to get any games assigned to him this summer.
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That shouldn’t be. If he wants to work and wants to learn, he needs games. There are several assignors that you should email directly and they will make sure he gets to work and learn.
 
outside! said:
SD County seems to have a surplus of youth referees. My son has not been able to get any games assigned to him this summer.
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I agree with Baldref. He should be getting games. Between the two main referee associations in San Diego there should be enough opportunities to referee. There are tournaments every weekend for the remainder of the summer. Baldy and I get emails from the San Diego assigners multiple times a week who are looking for referees of all skill levels. SDCSRA also has ELRP which mentors new referees during 9v9 games and is a great program with top referees in the center and as mentors.

PM, Baldref and I. We can give you contacts.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
I will be the first to admit that there are some refs that don't do themselves any favors. But taking it upon yourself to attempt to publically humiliate another human being does absolutely nothing positive.
1: It teaches your kids a lack of respect for authority. You think your kids will always have great bosses? Why don't you just teach your kid "If you have a bad boss, fuck him, and tell it to his face". It does not matter if authority is wielding its power ineffectively, Authority is authority, and you will not get far in life if you throw a temper tantrum everytime you think you could have done something better than your boss.
2: It teaches your children to "tilt" when faced with adversity. Harassing the referee just takes your kids focus off soccer. Instead of trying to win, some kids become more obsessed with counting how many fouls the ref calls against them. I see it all the time. You think they can mentally stew on referees mistakes and then be able to track the man he is supposed to be marking from his peripheral vision while making a heads up counterattack? No.
3: The bad referee is just going to view himself as a martyr and become further set in his ways. If a referee is ever going to be told he did a bad job, it will most likely be by one of his peers and it most certainly will not be said in public. The last person a referee will ever have an "aha" moment from is a pissed off parent.
4: It detracts from being able to enjoy potentially good game. Self explanatory.
5: It makes you look like a child. No seriously. Search "bad referee" or any other derivation in YouTube and find me a video where the parents comes off as looking better than the referee. There isn't one. Even when the referee completely missed an obvious call, somehow the parents always look like more of a whiny ass.

I have never seen a referee make a call just because the other teams asks for it. It may seem that way because 1: there is actually a literal amount of time it takes to physically bring the whistle to the mouth (jesus parents). 2: Referees are waiting for advantage 3. The referee has no clue what happened and is looking for clues and is replaying the play in his head 4. He is human and is trying to remember which way red is attacking this half.

Calm down, cheer or shut up, and watch the game.
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Hey Mijo, I believe you are sincere and know a lot of good refs. We all see the other type too often. How many times have we seen a ref making bad calls only to find out he has a niece or friend of a family member on the team or make it obvious they are amigos with parents on one of the teams. Bad calls, free kicks, extra minutes. Not fair to the players.
 
timbuck said:
I think that most parents go into games with good intentions.
But then their kid gets roughed up a bit and it all goes to hell.
Or they overhear a parent from another team say something slightly disparaging about a kid.
"Push her BACK!!!!!." "Don't let her push you." "Honey, dont you dare push my kid again" (I've heard all of these several times this Spring - Girls u14 games).

Overheard this weekend by 3 dads who wanted to show off their football throwing skills for everyone during halftime:
"I heard this team we are playing brought players from their higher team for this game." (Reality was it was a holiday weekend and guests were invited because a few kids weren't planning to be back in time. They wound up showing up and we had more on our bench than we had planned). Didn't matter -we lost anyway.
"Geez. That's so weak. Too bad we are going to crush them anyway." (then he repeated it at least 3 times to make sure that everyone could hear him).
Took a lot for me to keep quiet, because even the slightest response would have wound up being an issue.
The simplest thing that I thought to say was "We? You guys should probably stick to throwing the football around and let the 11 year old girls play the game."
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There are teams in particular with parents who behave badly. What influences or drives the behaviors? Either their coach is embarrassed by it or approves of it. In these cases probably the coaches covertly like it but pretend not to and would not condone if questioned. I’m referring to those teams we all experience where the parents act like the are cheering on a fight in a prison vs a youth sport. Sometimes followed by loud comments and even threats of violence. Some even look like they just got out of prison or on some type of weekend leave. Bad environment for everyone concerned.
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo, I believe you are sincere and know a lot of good refs. We all see the other type too often. How many times have we seen a ref making bad calls only to find out he has a niece or friend of a family member on the team or make it obvious they are amigos with parents on one of the teams. Bad calls, free kicks, extra minutes. Not fair to the players.
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garbage
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo, I believe you are sincere and know a lot of good refs. We all see the other type too often. How many times have we seen a ref making bad calls only to find out he has a niece or friend of a family member on the team or make it obvious they are amigos with parents on one of the teams. Bad calls, free kicks, extra minutes. Not fair to the players.
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Never seen it and my dd’s are 04’s, so they’ve played roughly 360 games (approx. 60 games/yr for 6 years).
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo, I believe you are sincere and know a lot of good refs. We all see the other type too often. How many times have we seen a ref making bad calls only to find out he has a niece or friend of a family member on the team or make it obvious they are amigos with parents on one of the teams. Bad calls, free kicks, extra minutes. Not fair to the players.
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Although I have seen losing parents complain about it, I have never seen it.
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo, I believe you are sincere and know a lot of good refs. We all see the other type too often. How many times have we seen a ref making bad calls only to find out he has a niece or friend of a family member on the team or make it obvious they are amigos with parents on one of the teams. Bad calls, free kicks, extra minutes. Not fair to the players.
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I suppose you also believe there is a secret alien base under Antarctica and aliens control the governments of the world. I referee games almost every weekend where I know at least one of the coaches and some of the parents. By your logic, I make calls/no calls based on my friendships. You could ask those coaches and they would all tell you that I am impartial and my friendships do not hold any weight when deciding what fouls to call or how much time to add. I have even thrown a coach, longtime friend, out of a game and then had beers with him a few day later. None of the referees, that also know numerous coaches and parents, I know would base their calls on a friendship with a coach or parent. You are probably one of those parents on the sideline that yell, "ref stop being a homer" or "hometown ref." You may have even been that parent at OCGP a few weeks ago that got sent to the parking lot for yelling, "F*$king hometown OC ref calling everything for Slammers." Little did the parent know that I am from San Diego and not OC.
 
Surfref said:
I suppose you also believe there is a secret alien base under Antarctica and aliens control the governments of the world. I referee games almost every weekend where I know at least one of the coaches and some of the parents. By your logic, I make calls/no calls based on my friendships. You could ask those coaches and they would all tell you that I am impartial and my friendships do not hold any weight when deciding what fouls to call or how much time to add. I have even thrown a coach, longtime friend, out of a game and then had beers with him a few day later. None of the referees, that also know numerous coaches and parents, I know would base their calls on a friendship with a coach or parent. You are probably one of those parents on the sideline that yell, "ref stop being a homer" or "hometown ref." You may have even been that parent at OCGP a few weeks ago that got sent to the parking lot for yelling, "F*$king hometown OC ref calling everything for Slammers." Little did the parent know that I am from San Diego and not OC.
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I would think that it has to be the most embarrassing thing for the kid to see his/her parent being kicked off the game.
 
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