Parents from certain teams

outside! said:
MijoPlumber,

I have been videoing both of my kids games for over 5 years now. I am able to go frame by frame on a large monitor. I used to spend a lot of time reviewing "questionable" calls. I found that most of the time, the ref was either absolutely correct, or that it was a close enough call that I could see that the ref made the best call possible in real time without VAR. I have also seen some bad calls, but not as many as you would think. As your player gets older, and if she plays at a higher level, the quality of the referees will get better.
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{sarcasm alert} That means you have a lot of video of me making all of the calls in favor of your son and daughter’s teams since I know you.
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo. Nope not me! That must have been those aliens you were referring to. You have a galactic imagination. Maybe you are seeing things on the field as well.

Let’s be clear we see it happen on a regular basis.
Of the 40-50 games my Mija plays per year I would say at least 10 have horrendous caca de toro referees. Agree some refs and coaches do know each other and clearly some hate each other and some support each other, it’s obvious.

At a game in Norco the center ref was related do one of the players. They called her aunt and the AR was also related! Same situation in Temecula. What a joke!

Your denial this CACA happens shows all of us how blind you choose to be of the facts.
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Referees are not supposed to referee a game played by a relative of theirs. The referee should have contacted their assigner and got the assignment changed as soon as they realized they would be refereeing a family member.

I am not saying that there are subpar referees out there, but most of the referees do a good job. Most referees don’t care who wins or loses.
 
Surfref said:
Referees are not supposed to referee a game played by a relative of theirs. The referee should have contacted their assigner and got the assignment changed as soon as they realized they would be refereeing a family member.

I am not saying that there are subpar referees out there, but most of the referees do a good job. Most referees don’t care who wins or loses.
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Surfref, I don’t feel you owe this poster an explanation. Keep officiating, running, and drinking good beer.
 
Let’s try that again.....I am not saying that there are not subpar referees out there, but most of the referees do a good job. Most referees don’t care who wins or loses.
 
outside! said:
MijoPlumber,

I have been videoing both of my kids games for over 5 years now. I am able to go frame by frame on a large monitor. I used to spend a lot of time reviewing "questionable" calls. I found that most of the time, the ref was either absolutely correct, or that it was a close enough call that I could see that the ref made the best call possible in real time without VAR. I have also seen some bad calls, but not as many as you would think. As your player gets older, and if she plays at a higher level, the quality of the referees will get better.
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Mijo, I video as well having to go through multiple times editing. I would like to believe what you said however even ECNL games when played on one particular home field it is a joke. Just a fact there are some really biased people out there and they are pathetic. I would rather my Mija play down 9 v. 11 than 11 v. 12. It kills the confidence of the players when the ref is the other team’s 12th player.

Again Mijo, doesn’t justify bad parent behavior!
 
MijoPlumber said:
Mijo, Agree and they look like idiots!
That is no excuse for bad refereeing. Maybe all you honorable refs should get on the bad refs to step up or get out.
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I recommend you get out there and show us how it is done. There is always the need for quality refs.
 
All i can say is we went to nationals and the refs had to qualify through state and regionals to be there and wow what a difference. The quality of refs referring your games makes a huge difference.
 
MijoPlumber said:
Hey Mijo. Let’s be clear we see it happen on a regular basis.
Of the 40-50 games my Mija plays per year I would say at least 10 have horrendous caca de toro referees. Agree some refs and coaches do know each other and clearly some hate each other and some support each other, it’s obvious... Your denial this CACA happens shows all of us how blind you choose to be of the facts.
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I think the mental block is that you don't believe that I believe that there are bad referees. Let me put this a different way. I'm goin to categorize the referees and assign a rough percentage to each type of referee based on my years of experience.

Category A (10%): This is a good ref doing a good job that both team think is doing a good job -​
(A good referee is one that gets over 95% of the calls right and gets 100% of the major match incidents right). (CLARIFICATION: There are a large amount of calls that can be called either way and still be justified under the laws. A refs "correct" call falls in this allowable range).
Category B (15%): This is a good referee doing a good job that one of the teams think is doing a terrible or subpar job ​
(The typical reason parents would be mad at a good referee is lack of knowledge of the laws. Other reasons include different styles of soccer or "he made us lose").
Category C (50%): This is an average referee that gets 80-95% of calls right. They usually lack in one way or another aside from knowledge of the game.​
(They can fall short slightly in fitness, experience, confidence, or nuance. These are the referees that Bald, surf, and I try to protect. They have potential and are doing the best job they can. They get major calls right, they just need to learn how to "sell" their calls better. Sometimes they give out cards when a better ref could have used his persona. They have trouble dealing with "personalities" and let games get a little wild because of this. They are still getting most calls right. A referee "letting a game get out of control" is usually not lack of foul recognition, but just an inability to assert his authority.
Category D: This is an average referee that misses a major match incident. (5%)​
They are told after the game by their peers because they are open to criticism and feel bad they missed it. It is usually lack of experience or courage/confidence to make the right call that makes them swallow their whistle. Everyone has a bad day occasionally.
Category E: This is a bad referee (15%)​
They are either too new or young or old or fat. Maybe they don't have a full grasp of the laws or tunnel vision hard. They still try to be fair and have fun reffing.
Category F: These are (borderline) evil referees. (5%) (probably less though)​
Refereeing can attract a certain clientele. These are guys (almost always) whose wives or children or parents don't listen to them at home but now they are the center authority and you have to do what they say. These guys go on a power trip on the field and feed off your helpless whines and tears that are futile because you have to accept their decisions. Be glad that these people only chose refereeing as their outlet to dominate. Unfortunately, they almost never go too far with their power trip to do something that would warrant a revocation of their license. They only never get caught because parents whine too much about Categories B-E.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
I think the mental block is that you don't believe that I believe that there are bad referees. Let me put this a different way. I'm goin to categorize the referees and assign a rough percentage to each type of referee based on my years of experience.

Category A (10%): This is a good ref doing a good job that both team think is doing a good job -​
(A good referee is one that gets over 95% of the calls right and gets 100% of the major match incidents right). (CLARIFICATION: There are a large amount of calls that can be called either way and still be justified under the laws. A refs "correct" call falls in this allowable range).
Category B (15%): This is a good referee doing a good job that one of the teams think is doing a terrible or subpar job ​
(The typical reason parents would be mad at a good referee is lack of knowledge of the laws. Other reasons include different styles of soccer or "he made us lose").
Category C (50%): This is an average referee that gets 80-95% of calls right. They usually lack in one way or another aside from knowledge of the game.​
(They can fall short slightly in fitness, experience, confidence, or nuance. These are the referees that Bald, surf, and I try to protect. They have potential and are doing the best job they can. They get major calls right, they just need to learn how to "sell" their calls better. Sometimes they give out cards when a better ref could have used his persona. They have trouble dealing with "personalities" and let games get a little wild because of this. They are still getting most calls right. A referee "letting a game get out of control" is usually not lack of foul recognition, but just an inability to assert his authority.
Category D: This is an average referee that misses a major match incident. (5%)​
They are told after the game by their peers because they are open to criticism and feel bad they missed it. It is usually lack of experience or courage/confidence to make the right call that makes them swallow their whistle. Everyone has a bad day occasionally.
Category E: This is a bad referee (15%)​
They are either too new or young or old or fat. Maybe they don't have a full grasp of the laws or tunnel vision hard. They still try to be fair and have fun reffing.
Category F: These are (borderline) evil referees. (5%) (probably less though)​
Refereeing can attract a certain clientele. These are guys (almost always) whose wives or children or parents don't listen to them at home but now they are the center authority and you have to do what they say. These guys go on a power trip on the field and feed off your helpless whines and tears that are futile because you have to accept their decisions. Be glad that these people only chose refereeing as their outlet to dominate. Unfortunately, they almost never go too far with their power trip to do something that would warrant a revocation of their license. They only never get caught because parents whine too much about Categories B-E.
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Thank you Mijo,
Hey I think most of us really appreciate our referees and most are good people. There is no excuse for any chili in the eye talk for any parents. Most know saying nothing works better at least doesn’t make it worse.

You didn’t mention, category G - Friends and family.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
Category A (10%): This is a good ref doing a good job that both team think is doing a good job - (A good referee is one that gets over 95% of the calls right and gets 100% of the major match incidents right). (CLARIFICATION: There are a large amount of calls that can be called either way and still be justified under the laws. A refs "correct" call falls in this allowable range).
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For every 100 games that you've seen, only 10 times have you seen a good referee doing a good job? What area are you in where 90% of the youth games refereed are subpar?
 
MijoPlumber said:
Thank you Mijo,
Hey I think most of us really appreciate our referees and most are good people.

You didn’t mention, category G - Friends and family.
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Sorry for typo : There is no excuse for any chili in the eye talk from any parents. Most know saying nothing works better at least doesn’t make it worse.
 
jrcaesar said:
For every 100 games that you've seen, only 10 times have you seen a good referee doing a good job? What area are you in where 90% of the youth games refereed are subpar?
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That's not what he said. 25% of time ref is "good", not 10 (from their observations). Give it a re-read. Subpar he's saying is 20% not 90%.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
I think the mental block is that you don't believe that I believe that there are bad referees. Let me put this a different way. I'm goin to categorize the referees and assign a rough percentage to each type of referee based on my years of experience.

Category A (10%): This is a good ref doing a good job that both team think is doing a good job -​
(A good referee is one that gets over 95% of the calls right and gets 100% of the major match incidents right). (CLARIFICATION: There are a large amount of calls that can be called either way and still be justified under the laws. A refs "correct" call falls in this allowable range).
Category B (15%): This is a good referee doing a good job that one of the teams think is doing a terrible or subpar job ​
(The typical reason parents would be mad at a good referee is lack of knowledge of the laws. Other reasons include different styles of soccer or "he made us lose").
Category C (50%): This is an average referee that gets 80-95% of calls right. They usually lack in one way or another aside from knowledge of the game.​
(They can fall short slightly in fitness, experience, confidence, or nuance. These are the referees that Bald, surf, and I try to protect. They have potential and are doing the best job they can. They get major calls right, they just need to learn how to "sell" their calls better. Sometimes they give out cards when a better ref could have used his persona. They have trouble dealing with "personalities" and let games get a little wild because of this. They are still getting most calls right. A referee "letting a game get out of control" is usually not lack of foul recognition, but just an inability to assert his authority.
Category D: This is an average referee that misses a major match incident. (5%)​
They are told after the game by their peers because they are open to criticism and feel bad they missed it. It is usually lack of experience or courage/confidence to make the right call that makes them swallow their whistle. Everyone has a bad day occasionally.
Category E: This is a bad referee (15%)​
They are either too new or young or old or fat. Maybe they don't have a full grasp of the laws or tunnel vision hard. They still try to be fair and have fun reffing.
Category F: These are (borderline) evil referees. (5%) (probably less though)​
Refereeing can attract a certain clientele. These are guys (almost always) whose wives or children or parents don't listen to them at home but now they are the center authority and you have to do what they say. These guys go on a power trip on the field and feed off your helpless whines and tears that are futile because you have to accept their decisions. Be glad that these people only chose refereeing as their outlet to dominate. Unfortunately, they almost never go too far with their power trip to do something that would warrant a revocation of their license. They only never get caught because parents whine too much about Categories B-E.
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I think most refs will move from category to category and usually be in category B or C but occasionally move to A or D. They can even move between categories within a game. I had a 90 minute G18 game that I hit a physical wall at about the 75th minute and it took me a couple minutes to mentally will myself over the wall. So, I went from an A/B to a C and back up to the A/B level. Most refs have been an E ref at one time and try to help them. Then there are the F refs that we all know about and try to avoid having to work with them.

The other factor is the skill of the Assistant Referees (AR). A great ref can look like crap if the referees do not work as a team or the AR(s) are doing a poor job.
 
Surfref said:
I think most refs will move from category to category and usually be in category B or C but occasionally move to A or D. They can even move between categories within a game. I had a 90 minute G18 game that I hit a physical wall at about the 75th minute and it took me a couple minutes to mentally will myself over the wall. So, I went from an A/B to a C and back up to the A/B level. Most refs have been an E ref at one time and try to help them. Then there are the F refs that we all know about and try to avoid having to work with them.

The other factor is the skill of the Assistant Referees (AR). A great ref can look like crap if the referees do not work as a team or the AR(s) are doing a poor job.
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It also depends on the age group/skill. There can be a consistently good U12-U14 ref and then he bites off a little more than he can chew when going up to a U16 game. Part of the learning process.

Also keep in mind that for us the "average" ref getting 85% of the calls right. That means they miss 15% of calls which usually amounts to 7-10 missed calls in a game (non match critical). To a biased parent on a close game - (2-1) or (3-3) stuff like that - missing 10 calls may seem like the end of the world (OMG its 11v12) and they may confuse them with a category E. I've seen parents tilt from just 3 missed calls in the Middle of the field,, and that is entering "good" ref status.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
Also keep in mind that for us the "average" ref getting 85% of the calls right. That means they miss 15% of calls which usually amounts to 7-10 missed calls in a game (non match critical).
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I think the A-E poster has introduced some confusing ratings. For Def's post above, are the 7-10 really missed calls or, being non-match critical, are they literally the definition of a trifling foul for which the game should not be stopped?
 
A good referee is one who manages the game and stays the hell out of the way. Try your best not to be involved unless the players need or want you involved.
Players dictate how much you have to do. Sometimes it’s more than others but a good referee tries to stay out of the way.
I don’t know what percentage that is.

What I do know is that the percentage of referees who are biased to one team or the other is very very small. Not 10 out of 50 games like was inferred. More like 1 out of 1000
 
Ever wonder what games would be like if parents didn't attend? Just drop & go?

Wait that would be High School soccer for the most part, with most of our DD games prior to 5pm, going on 4 years I don't think I've attended more than a handful live not including the postseason. Video is available and we've made some highlights but I don't recall more than 1-2 spectactors getting thrown out or in arguments in all those years, pretty chill for the most part.

My kids ask me to attend there regular games every once in a while but I know some of the friends are the opposite and don't care and some would rather not have parents around.

Never been one to watch practice either but been fortunate not to have to drive hours to get there but yeah for games could understand sticking around, too bad no bullpens or beer gardens for the parents, sitting on the sidelines is a distraction to the players & refs for the most part but i guess that gets them ready for the "friendly" environments later in life.

When the kids where very young they used to have silent Sundays or something like where parents could watch but not comment or talk, kids loved it, might be time to think about that once a month or whenever?
 
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jpeter said:
Ever wonder what games would be like if parents didn't attend? Just drop & go?

Wait that would be High School soccer for the most part, with most of our DD games prior to 5pm, going on 4 years I don't think I've attended more than a handful live not including the postseason. Video is available and we've made some highlights but I don't recall more than 1-2 spectactors getting thrown out or in arguments in all those years, pretty chill for the most part.

My kids ask me to attend there regular games every once in a while but I know some of the friends are the opposite and don't care and some would rather not have parents around.

Never been one to watch practice either but been fortunate not to have to drive hours to get there but yeah for games could understand sticking around, too bad no bullpens or beer gardens for the parents, sitting on the sidelines is a distraction to the players & refs for the most part but i guess that gets them ready for the "friendly" environments later in life.

When the kids where very young they used to have silent Sundays or something like where parents could watch but not comment or talk, kids loved it, might be time to think about that once a month or whenever?
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A couple years ago I had agame between two B18 teams, that I had assessed, from south San Diego and there were no spectators allowed. The spectators had gotten in a fight when the two teams played earlier in the fall and were banned from games. It was awesome not having to worry about the spectators yelling. It made the actual game easier to manage.
 
Surfref said:
A couple years ago I had agame between two B18 teams, that I had assessed, from south San Diego and there were no spectators allowed. The spectators had gotten in a fight when the two teams played earlier in the fall and were banned from games. It was awesome not having to worry about the spectators yelling. It made the actual game easier to manage.
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There are parents who get out of control for both my Mijo’s games and my Mija’s games. Some people just do not get it. It’s only kids soccer. Hope it gets better when they are older in HSz
 
Had a good one at Surf this weekend. I’m on my teams bench and the ref is struggling. Calls and keeping up. Our head coach is normally calm and is starting to lose it. At half they have a discussion and the ref said “sorry, I’m tired and I’m just not good today. This my 10th game in 3 days. ”. It was odd, but was the best thing to say as we just sort of said everyone can have a bad day and calmed down.
 
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