Parents from certain teams

MijoPlumber said:
Thank you Mijo,
Hey I think most of us really appreciate our referees and most are good people.

You didn’t mention, category G - Friends and family.
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Sorry for typo : There is no excuse for any chili in the eye talk from any parents. Most know saying nothing works better at least doesn’t make it worse.
 
jrcaesar said:
For every 100 games that you've seen, only 10 times have you seen a good referee doing a good job? What area are you in where 90% of the youth games refereed are subpar?
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That's not what he said. 25% of time ref is "good", not 10 (from their observations). Give it a re-read. Subpar he's saying is 20% not 90%.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
I think the mental block is that you don't believe that I believe that there are bad referees. Let me put this a different way. I'm goin to categorize the referees and assign a rough percentage to each type of referee based on my years of experience.

Category A (10%): This is a good ref doing a good job that both team think is doing a good job -​
(A good referee is one that gets over 95% of the calls right and gets 100% of the major match incidents right). (CLARIFICATION: There are a large amount of calls that can be called either way and still be justified under the laws. A refs "correct" call falls in this allowable range).
Category B (15%): This is a good referee doing a good job that one of the teams think is doing a terrible or subpar job ​
(The typical reason parents would be mad at a good referee is lack of knowledge of the laws. Other reasons include different styles of soccer or "he made us lose").
Category C (50%): This is an average referee that gets 80-95% of calls right. They usually lack in one way or another aside from knowledge of the game.​
(They can fall short slightly in fitness, experience, confidence, or nuance. These are the referees that Bald, surf, and I try to protect. They have potential and are doing the best job they can. They get major calls right, they just need to learn how to "sell" their calls better. Sometimes they give out cards when a better ref could have used his persona. They have trouble dealing with "personalities" and let games get a little wild because of this. They are still getting most calls right. A referee "letting a game get out of control" is usually not lack of foul recognition, but just an inability to assert his authority.
Category D: This is an average referee that misses a major match incident. (5%)​
They are told after the game by their peers because they are open to criticism and feel bad they missed it. It is usually lack of experience or courage/confidence to make the right call that makes them swallow their whistle. Everyone has a bad day occasionally.
Category E: This is a bad referee (15%)​
They are either too new or young or old or fat. Maybe they don't have a full grasp of the laws or tunnel vision hard. They still try to be fair and have fun reffing.
Category F: These are (borderline) evil referees. (5%) (probably less though)​
Refereeing can attract a certain clientele. These are guys (almost always) whose wives or children or parents don't listen to them at home but now they are the center authority and you have to do what they say. These guys go on a power trip on the field and feed off your helpless whines and tears that are futile because you have to accept their decisions. Be glad that these people only chose refereeing as their outlet to dominate. Unfortunately, they almost never go too far with their power trip to do something that would warrant a revocation of their license. They only never get caught because parents whine too much about Categories B-E.
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I think most refs will move from category to category and usually be in category B or C but occasionally move to A or D. They can even move between categories within a game. I had a 90 minute G18 game that I hit a physical wall at about the 75th minute and it took me a couple minutes to mentally will myself over the wall. So, I went from an A/B to a C and back up to the A/B level. Most refs have been an E ref at one time and try to help them. Then there are the F refs that we all know about and try to avoid having to work with them.

The other factor is the skill of the Assistant Referees (AR). A great ref can look like crap if the referees do not work as a team or the AR(s) are doing a poor job.
 
Surfref said:
I think most refs will move from category to category and usually be in category B or C but occasionally move to A or D. They can even move between categories within a game. I had a 90 minute G18 game that I hit a physical wall at about the 75th minute and it took me a couple minutes to mentally will myself over the wall. So, I went from an A/B to a C and back up to the A/B level. Most refs have been an E ref at one time and try to help them. Then there are the F refs that we all know about and try to avoid having to work with them.

The other factor is the skill of the Assistant Referees (AR). A great ref can look like crap if the referees do not work as a team or the AR(s) are doing a poor job.
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It also depends on the age group/skill. There can be a consistently good U12-U14 ref and then he bites off a little more than he can chew when going up to a U16 game. Part of the learning process.

Also keep in mind that for us the "average" ref getting 85% of the calls right. That means they miss 15% of calls which usually amounts to 7-10 missed calls in a game (non match critical). To a biased parent on a close game - (2-1) or (3-3) stuff like that - missing 10 calls may seem like the end of the world (OMG its 11v12) and they may confuse them with a category E. I've seen parents tilt from just 3 missed calls in the Middle of the field,, and that is entering "good" ref status.
 
Definitelynotanotherref said:
Also keep in mind that for us the "average" ref getting 85% of the calls right. That means they miss 15% of calls which usually amounts to 7-10 missed calls in a game (non match critical).
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I think the A-E poster has introduced some confusing ratings. For Def's post above, are the 7-10 really missed calls or, being non-match critical, are they literally the definition of a trifling foul for which the game should not be stopped?
 
A good referee is one who manages the game and stays the hell out of the way. Try your best not to be involved unless the players need or want you involved.
Players dictate how much you have to do. Sometimes it’s more than others but a good referee tries to stay out of the way.
I don’t know what percentage that is.

What I do know is that the percentage of referees who are biased to one team or the other is very very small. Not 10 out of 50 games like was inferred. More like 1 out of 1000
 
Ever wonder what games would be like if parents didn't attend? Just drop & go?

Wait that would be High School soccer for the most part, with most of our DD games prior to 5pm, going on 4 years I don't think I've attended more than a handful live not including the postseason. Video is available and we've made some highlights but I don't recall more than 1-2 spectactors getting thrown out or in arguments in all those years, pretty chill for the most part.

My kids ask me to attend there regular games every once in a while but I know some of the friends are the opposite and don't care and some would rather not have parents around.

Never been one to watch practice either but been fortunate not to have to drive hours to get there but yeah for games could understand sticking around, too bad no bullpens or beer gardens for the parents, sitting on the sidelines is a distraction to the players & refs for the most part but i guess that gets them ready for the "friendly" environments later in life.

When the kids where very young they used to have silent Sundays or something like where parents could watch but not comment or talk, kids loved it, might be time to think about that once a month or whenever?
 
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jpeter said:
Ever wonder what games would be like if parents didn't attend? Just drop & go?

Wait that would be High School soccer for the most part, with most of our DD games prior to 5pm, going on 4 years I don't think I've attended more than a handful live not including the postseason. Video is available and we've made some highlights but I don't recall more than 1-2 spectactors getting thrown out or in arguments in all those years, pretty chill for the most part.

My kids ask me to attend there regular games every once in a while but I know some of the friends are the opposite and don't care and some would rather not have parents around.

Never been one to watch practice either but been fortunate not to have to drive hours to get there but yeah for games could understand sticking around, too bad no bullpens or beer gardens for the parents, sitting on the sidelines is a distraction to the players & refs for the most part but i guess that gets them ready for the "friendly" environments later in life.

When the kids where very young they used to have silent Sundays or something like where parents could watch but not comment or talk, kids loved it, might be time to think about that once a month or whenever?
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A couple years ago I had agame between two B18 teams, that I had assessed, from south San Diego and there were no spectators allowed. The spectators had gotten in a fight when the two teams played earlier in the fall and were banned from games. It was awesome not having to worry about the spectators yelling. It made the actual game easier to manage.
 
Surfref said:
A couple years ago I had agame between two B18 teams, that I had assessed, from south San Diego and there were no spectators allowed. The spectators had gotten in a fight when the two teams played earlier in the fall and were banned from games. It was awesome not having to worry about the spectators yelling. It made the actual game easier to manage.
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There are parents who get out of control for both my Mijo’s games and my Mija’s games. Some people just do not get it. It’s only kids soccer. Hope it gets better when they are older in HSz
 
Had a good one at Surf this weekend. I’m on my teams bench and the ref is struggling. Calls and keeping up. Our head coach is normally calm and is starting to lose it. At half they have a discussion and the ref said “sorry, I’m tired and I’m just not good today. This my 10th game in 3 days. ”. It was odd, but was the best thing to say as we just sort of said everyone can have a bad day and calmed down.
 
Frank said:
Had a good one at Surf this weekend. I’m on my teams bench and the ref is struggling. Calls and keeping up. Our head coach is normally calm and is starting to lose it. At half they have a discussion and the ref said “sorry, I’m tired and I’m just not good today. This my 10th game in 3 days. ”. It was odd, but was the best thing to say as we just sort of said everyone can have a bad day and calmed down.
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If a referee doing 10 games at Surf, assignors NOT doing a good job.
 
Eagle33 said:
If a referee doing 10 games at Surf, assignors NOT doing a good job.
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There are referees that can easily work 10 games over a three day period. There were some refs that worked all 5 days of Surf Cup. I did 8 games in two days for 28.59 miles (Sat: 13.66 miles and Sun: 14.93 Garmin GPS watch) and still felt good enough to work more games on Monday if I didn't have to go to my regular job. If a ref isn't feeling up to the job they should tell someone and be put on lines only or be replaced.
 
Eagle33 said:
If a referee doing 10 games at Surf, assignors NOT doing a good job.
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There are referees that can easily work 10 games over a three day period. There were some refs that worked all 5 days of Surf Cup. I did 8 games in two days for 28.59 miles (Sat: 13.66 miles and Sun: 14.93 Garmin GPS watch) and still felt good enough to work more games on Monday if I didn't have to go to my regular job. If a ref isn't feeling up to the job they should tell someone and be put on lines only or be replaced.
 
MijoPlumber said:
There are parents who get out of control for both my Mijo’s games and my Mija’s games. Some people just do not get it. It’s only kids soccer. Hope it gets better when they are older in HS
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It won't get better.

The further away some spectators are from the game, the worse they think the officiating is. Also, because they are in the stands, some feel entitled to should the most ignorant comments imaginable, toward not only the referees, but the players too.
 
GunninGopher said:
It won't get better.

The further away some spectators are from the game, the worse they think the officiating is. Also, because they are in the stands, some feel entitled to should the most ignorant comments imaginable, toward not only the referees, but the players too.
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... and some of the ones shouting stupid things at your team's players will be parents from your team.
 
I am so glad
outside! said:
... and some of the ones shouting stupid things at your team's players will be parents from your team.
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I suffer from 40 percent hearing loss in one ear. It just means I cannot hear most of the ignorant stuff the parents yell when in the stands/bleachers.
 
A few years ago during HS season I heard a parent yelling at my daughter (who is NOT selfish with the ball) "Pass the Ball!" as her coach was shouting at her to take her space and dribble. She listened to her coach.
 
outside! said:
A few years ago during HS season I heard a parent yelling at my daughter (who is NOT selfish with the ball) "Pass the Ball!" as her coach was shouting at her to take her space and dribble. She listened to her coach.
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Did she made a play or lost the ball? Normally when people screams at players to pass the ball is because they tend to lose the ball... Just saying.
 
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