Obama’s fault. Yep
No Soccer - Bad / No School - Catastrophic!
- Thread starter MicPaPa
- Start date
Never said it was his fault and there is a con on the list. It’s just these people couldn’t do it despite a) knowing better and b) lecturing everyone. Short of overwhelming force how then do you get the regular guy to cooperate?
Desert Hound
DA
Well ask yourself what system of government has the culture of Somalia brought forth?
How does their culture treat women, gays, other religions, etc?
We all know the answers to the above.
whatithink
GOLD
Is Somalia meant to have developed a system of government in the last 60 years? That's basically how long they have been independent. Is Somalia a country historically or a geographic construct of the conquerors? Sharia law anywhere is obviously for shit. The funny thing is, IMO, the treatment of women, gays and other religions by extreme Muslims is close aligned with the same by extreme Christians. I digress though.
Do shithole countries generally correlate to ex colonies in the main? Did those ex-colonial masters leave those countries as beacons of hope and examples of the prosperity that their "masters" imbued on them ... or did those ex-colonial masters divide and conquer locally, strip them of their wealth, treat them like crap etc. and so on. Did those countries ever exist prior as actual countries?
I read somewhere once that Ghana was the only ex-British empire country that did not have a civil war when the British left.
This is obviously a completely different subject, and an extremely complex one.
Somalia is certainly a "shithole". Wars, rebellions, civil wars does not a stable country make.
Another example given was Syria - one could make the point that Syria was a stable country prior to the rebellion ... albeit an authoritarian dictatorship propped up by the Soviets etc. Civil wars though tend to fuck things up and make "stable" countries into shitholes for a long period of time.
I didn't say that..Again, the question was would you trust the pilot, Surgeon, Financial Manager or School Bus Driver...this is the key part... if they displayed Biden's current condition?
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Of course not. But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump. With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.
Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one? Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for? IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.
You guys complain because the mainstream media bans conservative viewpoints, so how does that feel? It only creates resentment. Same with Trump.
Bottom line, the negative outweighs the positive with Trump. I believe that’s a similar equation many used against Hillary.
First of all I don’t equate culture with type of government. Neither do most people. You’re trying so hard to be right and not concede anything that yoube put yourself in a hole.
By your definition, just about every country on the planet is a shithole.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
I haven’t gone through all the pages but I have family who teaches (one family member runs a very poor school, so I get the teachers who pay for crayons, pencils and other supplies themselves, but teachers still get paid well despiste that) and who also clean at these schools. I also had child in an experimental summer school program in a school district - until Newsom squashed it. The experimental class room implemented various guidelines- many which were taken from places like Iceland, swede , Japan, Singapore, Australia, Various Canadian states, WHO China and on and on. In all these countries they have posted actual data and official statements, specially stating, ZERO cases of kids transmitting to adults. Then the real issue is teachers and staff passing it to on another Adult and POSSIBLY to a child. If the teachers actually follow protocols like responsible adults - not a problem. In AZ the teacher who got sick didn’t get it from a child, but now using children safety as a political tool. The teachers/unions, not all, as I know many willing to get back (as seen in experimental classrooms as well), are stopping this - even going back 50%. The hybrid model was ready to go in OC, since it seems OC is the only county (and SD) looking at real data. News, Unions, State things such as “new research” or “new data” but you’ll notice they never source it or have it available when you ask for it. Unfortunately this virus has been political- from the beginning. Your wife is a teacher, and state income is a big factor about staying home, but has your family sat down and thought of the very good possibility of your wife being laid off if this goes on? The District leaders in many areas are not stupid and hire tons of experts to look at the science and finances. My original suggestion was for teachers to take a pay cut of 10% if you made over $100k. My kids teachers last year averaged $105k base salary- with a few reaching $150k total compensation. Teachers actually work 7.5-8 months after holiday time off. Teachers will not be teaching 100% of that time anymore - the districts know this. It opens them up for litigation. As it stands, due to knowing teachers will not accept pay cuts - the budget needs to shrink elsewhere. So no sports for sure this Fall, and possibly none for the rest of next year - they will just say it’s “safety”. Yet MLS, NBA and other sports going on in our state. Support programs and support staff gone. Security gone. Saving money on feeding children (some kids only solid meal of day), not completely gone, but most people don’t take advantage or have ability of going to pick up food - this savings. They just voted in some districts in OC to reduce the number of periods in HS from 6 to 5 and reduce the elective credits needed to graduate by 15. Hmm. So if you reduce class time and classes, do we need as many teachers teaching. Nope. Unions can’t help if School Boards and districts change curriculum or graduating guidelines - they aren’t dumb. The Unions will also make concessions, as in previous years, and sacrifice some members - these will be the very Seniored teachers who have full retirement available already. They will go after the biggest earners - district already has with those they have control over. This isn’t going in to daycare, parents who are both working, special needs programs (districts are 100% going to get sued from these parents who have IEPs as these kids educations are going to be pretty shitty), coaches losing jobs, hundred/thousands of businesses who earn income by schools being open (uniforms, equipment, cleaners, construction,etc) and on and on. If you really want to simplify it, teachers are essential. Can’t tell a Costco/Target employee he is expected to got to work for $15/hour in an uncontrollable environment and say it ok for a teacher not to work for $75-$140+/hr. I understand the health concern and fear, but believe that is more based on the media and false info rather than actual data and looking at the entire picture. In my area parents have already begun setting up classrooms at various homes, to be taught by parents with teaching credentials who are retired or at stay-at-home parents. Litigation as to how we can get back compensation for the education supplements on will in all likelihood occur. Someone will end up getting shorted. If the litigation grows to voucher topic being rehashed - could create issue for public school teachers. Add this to Blaine Amendment decision (a pretty blatant racist tactic that is implemented in CA as well) that just occurred in Montana, and public school teachers/union better start figuring out every school related decision isn’t and shouldn’t be about the paycheck
Talk about holding on to their position too hard. So you’re an expert on “ingredients and supplies” and “factories, mining supplies, and labs.” Sorry if I trust Harvard more than you. And of course you know this should have been started back in February or March right?
Well It sounds like you’re an AmeriCAN’T. Sorry but I’m an AmeriCAN. I’m so confident in my position, i.e. that most Americans at this point would be willing to voluntarily lock down for 7 days and get their life back on the 8th day, why don’t we take it to the poll?
You cited examples of Democrats not adhering to the lockdown for a day or two because they went here or there. You forget they did lock down for the other 3 1/2 months.
I was actually shocked that most of America locked down as long as we did. I predicted only 1 month before people would start defying the lockdown.
How about Abbot tests for every school in America, can we do that? Remember it’s the size of a toaster not a tank. How about sanitizing dispensing fans for every school in America, do we have enough supplies to build those?
Again, if you or anyone has a better plan, I’M ALL FOR IT. Who gives a shit who comes up with the plan. I can sincerely tell that I don’t care if it’s Trump that comes up with a plan that takes us all out of our misery. Let him take all the credit. I’ve even said Hydroxychloquine seems to be ok in the early stages, so if it works it works, let’s use it, who gives a shit if Trump promotes it.
All I hear from you is a Trump apologist. This is where personal integrity should take over.
Sheriff Joe
DA
Of course not. But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump. With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.
Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one? Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for? IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.
You guys complain because the mainstream media bans conservative viewpoints, so how does that feel? It only creates resentment. Same with Trump.
Bottom line, the negative outweighs the positive with Trump. I believe that’s a similar equation many used against Hillary.
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So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?
Interesting report out about the man who donated blood to help save lives because he had covid and recovered. First two donations he had antibodies, not sure if it was his third or fourth donation,, but antibodies were virtually gone. Not good. Only three months since he recovered. Hope this isn't the norm.
Wow! I want to work in that district. The only teachers making that kind of money have been teaching 35-40 years or more, hold at least one masters degree or Phd. Please read the reports out of Israel and what happened when schools opened up.
So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?
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You’re next serious response will be your first.
What did your family member say about your plan?? When was the last time you asked ANY first responders to take a pay cut? Teachers are always expected to sacrifice. And sorry, teachers are not paid well, you’re out of your mind on that one.
Anyways, I too have family in teaching. I saw two of them yesterday and I asked what would get you back in the classroom. Testing every kid and staff every day: plexiglass, and sanitizing fans and materials. How hard is that?
Now, since we know the feds aren’t coming to the rescue I will start to put more onus on Newsome. He should start calling all the big shots in the State for donations so we can get all this testing and supplies ourselves. He probably should have started this a while ago. It will only benefit us all on the end .
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
Go to transparent CA
Okay so you are ditching every other country data? In Israel their was no actual data posted to link the reopening of schools to outbreaks. Most of the reports are “possible”, “might” and more of that type of wording. That isn’t actual data, as it has been provided in other countries. The outbreak also just happened to coincide with everything else openin in society - need to stop just reading media links and dig deeper in to what else is going on. If you look at the number of deaths in Israel - it’s about 400. So claiming peril or extreme danger is pretty dishonest.
Go to transparent CA if you want to look up salaries. I think most district workers also don’t understand how their salaries are paid and compensation packages are actually part of their total pay - benefits, retirement and other insurance packages don’t magically pay for themselves. Teachers believe since they have deductions from their checks they are paying it out of base salary - which isn’t the case. Unless you late a teacher living in some remote area and small district, you are paid well. To state otherwise is also plain dishonesty and pushing the “we don’t get paid enough” narrative. Again, not like we can’t look up salaries. If you talk to honest people teaching, they may even tell you how to get pay hikes.
As far as pay cuts and implying teachers would like first responders - that is a poorly constructed argument. Actually pretty insulting to what first responders deal with. This actually shows a lot of the mentality school districts and parents have to deal with as many (you aren’t the first) to attempt to equate teachers to first responders. That is actually a union line used in an attempt to make the weak argument of not cutting pay. I believe all work is essential, but many in the teaching field believe their work should be held in a higher regard than a retial worker, grocery worker or those cleaning their classrooms. My family members cleaning these classrooms are in greater danger than than their well cleaned and pretty controlled environment - they are more first responders than a teacher is. In my org all management took furloughs so NO employee was laid off. That worked out to as much as 15% Pat for some. Our company felt we are all in this together. So we took the hit. We don’t have any subsidies to fall on. Same Can not be said with teachers as many teachers, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, school support staff, crossing guards have already been told they are being laid off. Nothing new, their is a hierarchy and established line of thinking among MOST who tow the Union line. It has worked out for most financially, who wants to rock the boat? This current situation is going to work out the same as parents are figuring out how to educate kids on their own...well unless you are poor. The people who will be screwed are those who don’t have any involvement with their districts or ability or knowledge of how this all works. Some are too busy trying to survive on reduced hours or losing their jobs. I’m sure many coaches on here know the feeling. Some of us are blessed to have some financial flexibility to ensure our children are not left out mentally in the cold. Giving up money in the short term in order to ensure survival, is only questioned by those who never have to worry about if the next pay check will ever stop coming - usually done by those who never have been responsible for the well-being of more than themselves or immediate family. The school board members I know, and the family member who runs a school, have had to lay people off - they are full aware how devastating it is to them. Unfortunately they have said they are not given much flexibility due to union/teachers not being flexible with salaries.
whatithink
GOLD
So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?
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We have riots and a lawless country now, don't we?
Obama deported more illegals than anyone before, so if Biden continues that, isn't that a good thing?
You know taxes will have to go up, right? The tax cuts under Trump were adding $1-$2T to the deficit over 10 years. We just spent TRILLIONS more we don't have. How do you think that all gets paid for? And, no, you can't cut expenditure to meet that. No company cuts costs to success. Any good, sustainable company manages costs and grows revenue.
Likely, a democratic administration will want to raise taxes. A republican one will want to cut costs. Rationally, there should be a combination of both.
Realistically, serious money could be raised by just eliminating tax loop holes and serious money saved by ending the "corporate welfare system". Obviously our "bought and paid for" politicians on both sides of the aisle will never do either if those things.
That's a clever reply. You say its so, so there can't be any debate...got it. Although I'm more interested in the evidence not the debate. I am all ears, or eyes rather, and can be easily convinced with some actual evidence (not from teachers' unions or union apologists), I provided mine from the California Department of Education. I have no doubt that there are some charters that play fast and loose with the enrollment standards, but that's the case with anything in life, and those schools should come into compliance or lose their charter. Accountability standards should apply to both public and charter schools. What I do know is that the two charter high schools in our area are light years more integrated than our area public schools and the charter school provides a significantly better education than the public schools that many of the kids came from, although the charter education is comparable to the public schools in our area. I also know that my daughter was subject to the "lottery" to attend our local charter school, her name was selected but opted not to attend.
Sorry went to the joint. Have seen first hand what's wrong with it and the people running it. Part of our problem is that we are deferring too much to experts and people holding fancy credentials. But it's comforting if you are taking the blue pill to be told by someone from the mountain that it will be all o.k.
I'm sure if you asked everyone if you'd just lock down for 7 days and get rid of it would you support that, everyone would. The problem is that as you've conceded it would have to be far more rigorous and go above and beyond than what Spain did, which didn't. And when you started to ask people if they'd support the violent repression of BLM, the hard shut of the southern border, the suspension of the Constitution, or the forced removal of people from their homes, that's when you'd lose them. Medicare for All gets big number too until you start drilling into details. Finally, it simply not likely to work...you'd have to track down every case in 7 days, forced isolate everyone who might have been exposed, shut down the courts, and then hard shut at least the southern border in perpetuity so it doesn't start up again. It only takes one Chris Cuomo to send the house of cards tumbling down as South Korea proved with its nightclub outbreak.
Trump's made plenty of mistakes, among others:
-he didn't take the matter seriously until Tucker Carlson read him the riot act
-he then engaged in wishful thinking that it would go away
-he gave Fauci and the other experts too much deference and too much of a platform early on
-his own messaging was horrible on the subject. His oval office address was riddled with errors that led to more confusion
-he is currently ignoring the second economic crisis wave which is headed for us
-he shouldn't have held the Oklahoma rally
-even though there's not a lot of science to back it up, and even though he lacks the power for a national mask requirement (hey, he can't even get the schools to all open), he could have come out more forcefully for masks
I'm hardly a Trump apologist. Remember I knew what would happen back in January. One of the most jaw dropping moments I had was when Trump in the state of the union treated this like it was contained in China. Part of the issue is Fauci....he doesn't so much outright lie as engage in a series of half truths or willfully not telling the whole picture. I think they are both awful, but I also note most political leaders and experts around the world have been horrible.
Of course the mainstream crap reports on antibodies diminishing to scare everyone. Please look into the real line of defense and get back to me - T cells.
We can agree to disagree on the effectiveness of my plan. But I will never accept that we can’t figure this thing out, whoever’s plan that may be.
If I was ever in charge, I bring together the best and the brightest our nation has to offer, I tell them to check their egos and politics at the door, I lock them in a room and tell them you ain’t coming out until you figure this out.
Think big, let your imaginations run wild, and don’t worry about the cost. Only one caveat, whatever the plan is, let’s also think of it as an investment in infrastructure, and make sure we can also use it for COVID 21, 22, ....... so we don’t have to go through this crap ever again.
As the death rates jump up, DH looks like a fool.
I just love that some idiot actually said “you should watch Glenn Beck,” as he discusses information. Classic.
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