No Soccer - Bad / No School - Catastrophic!

watfly said:
This is a critical distinction. In our area the charter schools are comparable in academics to our public schools. However, the charter schools are light years ahead of the schools in the areas that many of the students come from.

One difference between the charters vs. the public schools in our area is that the charters reach more students. A great student in our area will excel in either a public or charter. Ivy League and like university (if you consider that a standard) students come out of both at about equal rates. However, a weaker student is much more likely to fall by the wayside at a public than a charter. Charters provide more support for the weaker students in general. As a matter of note, my children attend public schools and I'm a firm supporter of local public schools if your child is a good student. If my kids were weaker students they would be at a charter or a private school.

Charter schools are not the panacea for our education system. Although, they help tremendously by giving choice to those that are stuck in a shitty school system. We still need to improve our public school systems, the only way to do that is through true accountability from bottom to top. Just throwing money at schools is a proven loser.

The saddest part is that instead of raising the standards at public schools the unions want to get rid of the charters. If you can't compete lets shut them down instead (just like speech and everything else). That's not a solution it's a PC narrative.
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I will say, however, that students that have significant special needs are not served well at a charter. If they have minimal needs, just a little modification/ smaller class size, charters are often a great choice. If they need PT, OT, speech, one-on-one aid, public schools are much better. Same with most private schools that serve the general student population.
 
MacDre said:
Okay, I’ve refrained from getting involved on this issue because I’m a walking contradiction. As I have mentioned earlier, I was a founding board member of KIPP Bayview Academy. I no longer support charter schools for many of the reasons that @EOTL has outlined and I support unions.
However, I have family in the inner city and rural areas throughout the USA and the public school system is failing. I think I mentioned the other day that my local public school is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino students without cause.

For those that aren’t from the Bay Area the Bayview is comparable to Compton or South Chicago. Yet the kids in the Bayview are receiving and education comparable to the expensive Independent School education that @dad4 and I are paying for.

I’m struggling with this issue because there are problems with charter schools and public schools. This is why, I’m focusing my energy and resources on building an Independent IB school for all disenfranchised kids.
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Stop being so black and white and be more both and, and everything will become much clearer. Dre, your a former DA, attorney and businessman., right? I have a friend right now who is torn big time. Conflicted with his conscience. Lets be open to other viewpoints on education and give freedom of choice and the world will be much better. Thanks fro being honest and I have contradicted myself a few times as well.
 
TOSDCI said:
This is an instance of "You are getting affirmation for the viewpoint that you already have". It's like watching Fox News if you are Republican. NEA has a vested interest in disparaging charter schools. If you want actual facts, seek out the opposition's articles as well as NEA and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me. You’re the only one doing that.

There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities. The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.

More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.
 
TOSDCI said:
I will say, however, that students that have significant special needs are not served well at a charter. If they have minimal needs, just a little modification/ smaller class size, charters are often a great choice. If they need PT, OT, speech, one-on-one aid, public schools are much better. Same with most private schools that serve the general student population.
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It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright. My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy. Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed. Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists. So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.
 
MacDre said:
No, I built a charter school 18 years ago and currently it’s thriving. I no longer support charter schools and I’m focused on building an Independent IB school for disenfranchised youth.
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Potatoes/Patatoes... I get it, your logical side allows intellectual honesty regarding public schools...whereas your emotional side frightens you from stepping out of line from the left's orthodoxy. Can't imagine the internal pretzels you libs are required to twist yourselves into. Oh well, you do you.
 
Desert Hound said:
And for LESS money.

In AZ charters receive less money per pupil and have better outcomes. That is a win win for the AZ taxpayer.

Moving from a public school to a charter was night and day for my kids.

The public school they were at for years was consistently ranked as one of the best in AZ. And yet when I reviewed what they were learning I was constantly disappointed.

In 6th grade we moved them. The very first week they had lots of homework. And not fluff. We were happy.
I recall 3 weeks later one of their friends mom was talking about school. Her kids went to one of the "best" middle schools in the area and that was were my kids were slotted to go. They didn't have any homework for the first 3 weeks. Then...the first assignment was...what my friends think I do and what I really do. She was excited.

My wife looked at each other and later said, that is exactly why our kids are no longer in the public schools.

Over the years since then I keep track of what their friends in the same grade, but in the public schools are doing vs what mine are doing.

It is night and day.

I like to say it is the closest thing to being in a private school without being in a private school.
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I love how gringos claim that black people are doing great at their black people schools. Especially when it’s based on watching a sporting event. Same argument that the Board of Education in Topeka made in the Brown case BTW. The only “difference” is that you think you’ve given the disadvantaged a little “somethin somethin” because they could go to the rich kid charter school if only there was space and they lived in the area, plus the “opportunity” to have their own charter school with their kind closer to home because your is full. Pretty clever now that you’ve gotten around free busing to get disadvantaged kids to your rich kid schools.
 
Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow. There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall. Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.
 
dad4 said:
It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright. My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy. Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed. Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists. So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.
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I think this applies to all exceptionally bright kids with or without speech impediments. I think it’s a travesty that all “gifted” students don’t get an IEP.
 
Grace T. said:
Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow. There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall. Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.
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We must know the same folks :)
 
dad4 said:
It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright. My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy. Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed. Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists. So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.
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Amen to this. DYS is gifted but ADHD. We looked at public school for him but couldn't make it work. He wasn't severe enough to qualify for an IEP (since his grades were high). Without the IEP he wouldn't be extended accommodations....but the accommodations being extended to other kids would actually be detrimental to DYS' ability to focus-- translators in the classroom, inclusiveness of special needs kids (in one classroom we visited there's was this severely disabled kid who just sat in the corner making noises), disruptive kids that couldn't be removed from the classroom. For a kid that needed support and needed things to be really calm to get his best performance, it wasn't a good fit.
 
EOTL said:
Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me. You’re the only one doing that.

There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities. The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.

More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.
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You got to name calling in your first sentence, well done. Thank you for your two paragraphs of conjecture without evidence. If you provide some evidence of these so-called caps that are used to seek out the "right kind" I'm all ears. Yes, many charters have enrollment rules that can favor the local community, but that's because they want to serve the local community, not because they're sorting through the "right kids", whoever they may be. The charter schools in our area were formally public schools that converted. So they used to be only able to take kids in the community and now they're available to a wide variety of socioeconomic and ethnic families that may be stuck in a very poor neighborhood school. What evidence do you have that the random public drawings of students for enrollment (as required by State law) is fixed?

I agree, not all charter schools are created equal, but that doesn't mean we should shut them all down or prevent new ones. Charter schools should also be subject to accountability, which in reality they're held to higher standards than public schools. Charter schools can and do get shut down for not meeting performance standards...public schools virtually never.
 
Grace T. said:
Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow. There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall. Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.
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I so hope your wrong GraceT. I'm not the protesting type, but this might get my butt on a flight to Sacto. I'm contacting my state representatives now.
 
espola said:
I thought you might take the opportunity to clarify your meaning. Silly me.

I still have no idea what you mean.
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Not that it'll matter but sure, here you go: Your shtick = whine to one group about non-soccer posters, lurk non-soccer posters, swoop in with something like "link" or "what do you mean"... it's a stupid little game of never answering questions...just responding to questions with questions...then wash, rinse and repeat. Basically, an attention whore.

But, let me guess what's coming..."what do you mean? link?"
 
watfly said:
I so hope your wrong GraceT. I'm not the protesting type, but this might get my butt on a flight to Sacto. I'm contacting my state representatives now.
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Did you think all this would come down to no school and no soccer? Only online school and no other options for you. Plus, you lost your business ((many have)) got laid off or have a job barely and no help with the kids. Here's my offer. Every single human that is working right now in essential businesses like police and fire, nurses, Dr, AC Tech, plumber and grocery clerk needs school open now. Everyone else can do online. What % is that? The healthy teachers need to help out. This is more than selfishness.
 
MicPaPa said:
Not that it'll matter but sure, here you go: Your shtick = whine to one group about non-soccer posters, lurk non-soccer posters, swoop in with something like "link" or "what do you mean"... it's a stupid little game of never answering questions...just responding to questions with questions...then wash, rinse and repeat. Basically, an attention whore.

But, let me guess what's coming..."what do you mean? link?"
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Well of course I am going to ask for a link, since that might help me understand what you mean.

So what is the link to the post that brought on your latest rant?
 
Ellejustus said:
Did you think all this would come down to no school and no soccer? Only online school and no other options for you. Plus, you lost your business ((many have)) got laid off or have a job barely and no help with the kids. Here's my offer. Every single human that is working right now in essential businesses like police and fire, nurses, Dr, AC Tech, plumber and grocery clerk needs school open now. Everyone else can do online. What % is that? The healthy teachers need to help out. This is more than selfishness.
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Well, the one thing we can say is at least we aren't New York. De Blasio just announced that since all schools will be closed, he's going to open day care for at least 100K students (maybe more) for essential workers. So, essentially schools without the learning, and you still get the risk of kids transmitting it. Brilliant!

Yeah, contact your reps today if you care as well as write the governor. Newsom is not known as a man who backs down once a final decision is taken.
 
EOTL said:
Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me. You’re the only one doing that.

There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities. The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.

More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.
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Maybe parents of studious kids don’t want their kid in a class with some slacker who won’t do the work?

It isn’t segregation by color. It‘s segregation by ability and effort.
 
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