Stay and play local unless the best coach ever emails you to train with the best so you can be your best. I do believe you get better by being challenged by better players. I'm just not sure when you should leave local play for bigger play. I say after 14 but the game for girls after 14 is all about the individual and showcases and traveling, when they should be playing and not on the road so much.
Is club soccer a waste of time/money for youngers (under 10 yo)?
- Thread starter Socal-Soccer-Dad
- Start date
I already know this is going to drive me insane haha. I haven't paid for rooms in Vegas in a decade... If they make me pay for Luxor while my comped room in Bellagio sits empty, I'm going to lose my mind...
I rarely hear the parents of top boy players talk in terms of financial return, but you hear it a lot on the girls side. That's probably because the chance of getting a little college scholarship money for girls is higher than the chance for boys, even though the numbers rarely pencil out to actually be a good investment. Bottom line, though, is that youth soccer is an experience no different than any of the thousands of ways parents spend money to give their kids experiences from camps, lessons, birthday parties, and vacations to things like movies, amusement parks, and nice restaurants. None of them are actually "necessary" and they only provide a ROI in the very general sense of being the building blocks of raising a normal kid to go on to a productive life in society. Some help the kid develop life skills, some give them information, others just help pass the time more pleasantly.
I tell parents the time to move from AYSO to club is when your kid is passionate about practicing more and getting better, which is no different than saying the time to get cello lessons is not when the kid picks up the cello at school and is immediately decent, but when they practice all the time and want help getting better. The goal is not to get your kid to a point where they will become the next Yo Yo Ma, but to make your kid happy and to help them work to whatever their immediate goal is even if it IS to become the next Yo Yo Ma and you know that's not realistic. And just like you wouldn't let your kid spent all of their time on something like video games or amusement parks or the movies to the exclusion of their education, sleep, nutrition etc, the parents' role is to make sure they are getting a little balance while helping to nurture their dreams
That is an interesting point in regards to girls and boys. I definitely hear it more from the parents of girls than boys. Maybe its because boys parents believe their boys have more opportunities on a professional track.
Just wait bro. I honestly thought it was a joke at first. I got so busted and they took it out on my dd play time. That's why I come on here to complain. It's worse then paying so your kid can play. You also have to STFU when you see bad behavior by Doc, who also happens to be best pals with the TM and that's where this can take a turn for the worst. Double whammy and it can get awful because the Docs and TM share gossip and Doc/Coach get the scoop. They all agree that pay to play and pay to stay is the way to play. No play is the only way to force/scare parents if they dont pay and stay, no seen by coaches. Someone gets a cut on the marked up hotel fees. Yes, it's cheaper to go through Orbits or timeshare but even that is not allowed.
100%. If you ask a boy who can ball what their end games is, they all say they want to go pro and they tell everyone their goal. On the girls side, if you or parent says, "I want to go pro" you get laughed at from parents and called, "you must be stupid and on meds" and "no money in pro for girls" and just laughed at by dads who want their dd to go to college or their dd is big failure in life.
I do think there are delusional parents on the boys' side, but their delusion is that their kid is going to go pro in Mexico if they can just get them down there to train with one of the academies of a LigaMX team. As with getting a full scholarship to college, it can happen, but not enough to justify huge financial sacrifices.
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
Regardless of the sport or level, one thing is for sure, kids learn how to balance their workload when they get older if they start young with sports or hobbies. When kids understand that they cannot miss practice and have to work hard to get playing minutes. When they understand that the expectation is to work hard at school and sports/arts, they will do very good as they go into college. Time Management and competitive drive can go a long way in building the future for our kids.
I am new to US youth soccer club scene and this seems to be the right thread to get some opinions on my decision.
My kid is 11yo and have been playing recreational leagues (i9, local county leagues, futsal, camps, ayso, etc.) for 5+ years minus COVID years.
I am looking at clubs at North OC now but get totally confused (Fountain Valley, Anaheim, Irvine, Orange, Santa Ana, etc.):
1) All Flight 3 teams are ready to sign up my kid (no surprise based on reading this forum)
2) Some Flight 2 teams are offering a spot (somewhat surprise but the team does not look very strong).
3) 1 flight 1 team and another Flight 2 team that plan to go to Flight 1 next season also offered a spot.
Even more confusing is the fact that some of these teams belong to the same club/organization. We have "tried out" with 9 teams so far (perhaps 5 different clubs...I lost track).
My Questions:
1) Are there really big skill gaps between Flights? or is it more about team organization/strategy/aggressiveness?
2) I think all of these teams belong to Socal, maybe coast soccer league or other leagues have better level definition?
3) Also confused with the jargon of some coaches/clubs saying about path to higher level like ECNL, MLSnext, Discovery. How many level are there? 8?
Cost wise, I did my math and in the past already spent about $1200 annually for soccer activities, the clubs have been offering $1800-$2400 annual fee (including referee fee and 2 tournaments according to the contract). I think additional $100/month is not bad considering that YMCA after school charge me $500/month for staying at school 2-6pm with no "real" activities.
No aspirations to be pro or getting scholarship but I do think joining competition at an appropriate level of one's skill always beneficial to children's general education.
I used to play youth soccer in another country, another time but cannot relate with this environment at all, totally overwhelmed.
My kid is 11yo and have been playing recreational leagues (i9, local county leagues, futsal, camps, ayso, etc.) for 5+ years minus COVID years.
I am looking at clubs at North OC now but get totally confused (Fountain Valley, Anaheim, Irvine, Orange, Santa Ana, etc.):
1) All Flight 3 teams are ready to sign up my kid (no surprise based on reading this forum)
2) Some Flight 2 teams are offering a spot (somewhat surprise but the team does not look very strong).
3) 1 flight 1 team and another Flight 2 team that plan to go to Flight 1 next season also offered a spot.
Even more confusing is the fact that some of these teams belong to the same club/organization. We have "tried out" with 9 teams so far (perhaps 5 different clubs...I lost track).
My Questions:
1) Are there really big skill gaps between Flights? or is it more about team organization/strategy/aggressiveness?
2) I think all of these teams belong to Socal, maybe coast soccer league or other leagues have better level definition?
3) Also confused with the jargon of some coaches/clubs saying about path to higher level like ECNL, MLSnext, Discovery. How many level are there? 8?
Cost wise, I did my math and in the past already spent about $1200 annually for soccer activities, the clubs have been offering $1800-$2400 annual fee (including referee fee and 2 tournaments according to the contract). I think additional $100/month is not bad considering that YMCA after school charge me $500/month for staying at school 2-6pm with no "real" activities.
No aspirations to be pro or getting scholarship but I do think joining competition at an appropriate level of one's skill always beneficial to children's general education.
I used to play youth soccer in another country, another time but cannot relate with this environment at all, totally overwhelmed.
Flight 1 teams tend to play more of a possession game. This is because all the players are equally "good" the only way to win is to play as a team.
Flight 2 teams tend to be more individual effort ='s goals/wins
Flight 3 teams are even more on the scale of individual effort ='s goals/wins
All depends on what you want your kid to be involved with/in.
graciesdad
BRONZE
All depends on your situation and your kid. My DD was slow to develop so we did AYSO for 6 years, last two were All-Stars and Xtras. It was playing at a higher level that juiced her to want more. Was recruited to a club team as an 06. Been playing on a 03 club last two years. This has been great for her HS season which she loves.
Yes there are huge differences in the flights at the younger ages, but they aren't necessarily skill based. Don't get me wrong....skills are an important part of the equation and it is likely if you put a flight 1 striker 1v1 against a flight 3 striker they will outdribble them. But soccer is a team sport and there are other functions. One big one at the younger ages is the age, size and speed of the players....if you look at the higher flights they just tend to have the bigger and older kids because at the younger ages, an individual player who is fast can make a substantial difference. A bigger leg is able to whip one passed the keeper while a weaker still forming leg will be blocked. Another is a function of how long the team has been playing together (though you have plenty of coast bronze teams that have been around forever and not advanced). You see it, for example, at tournaments that have joint brackets between the flights (you can usually...not always...predict the winner based on who is a higher flight) or in coast soccer league (which has pro/rel) where sometimes newly promoted teams struggled in the new brackets (again not always).
The pathways they are talking about is the higher flights that exist as the kids get older. Because US soccer is so disorganized with competing orgs overseeing it, there's a lot of division instead of one clear path way. On the boys end MLS Next is the big one (though that exists in two parts too with the true MLS Academies on one end plus a handful of other teams, and the rest of the cannon fodder for the MLS teams on the other), though there's also a split with ENCL which is the other top tier. The second tier has similar splits with Coast Premiere, EA, Elite 64, and Discovery. It's still all sorting out.
One of the big decisions you'll have when determining a flight should be not only money, but time. As you move up the ranks, the kids and families tend to get a little more serious about soccer. Are you o.k. with putting in the extra practices or extra private trainings which might be expected? Are you o.k. with missing the occassional family holiday to participate in a soccer tournament? Up the ranks the teams are also more geographically dispersed so are you o.k. with the kid doing homework in the car in the commute? If your kid is moving up from AYSO and just wants to have fun, a good strong flight 3 team (where the kid isn't getting punished by loss after loss) is just about right. If your kid is serious maybe moving up a few flights, though it's important if you move up to understand exactly how much play time your player might get relative to the strength of the rest of the team. Another question to ask yourself is if the coach is all about winning (and will act accordingly to get the win) or if the coach is interested in developing the players (in which case it might cost a victory as the team learns)...it's all a balancing act.
Schedule | SOCAL Soccer League
socalsoccerleague.org
Here is the socal schedule for last fall. You can see the fields and determine if fight 1 traveling is what you want.
Welcome to the forum jojon. What was soccer like for you as a youth in other country? I played local AYSO for 7 years and had so much fun. No travel soccer, just local LB AYSO. Kids from our city played in a league. We played one game on Saturday, rain or shine. Daily Pilot came to our games and did write ups. Today, I don;t know what to say except to try and find a local team and local coach and go have fun is next to impossible. You have to pay to play. I have been around this youth sport for 11 years and June 5th is my last day and last day on the forum. My dd is aging out and this weekend was her last club match but she got hurt playing sports in high school again and her youth career is over just like that. One year at a time is my advice as well.
RV sounds good if your kid moves up the ranks....lol
Regarding size, I was expressing to another soccer parent that my kid has a hard time playing against bigger kids. Not that he can’t, just that it’s harder. The bigger kid might be able to knock him off the ball so my kid has scramble to try to get it back or prevent a pass. Or he might lose in the air challenges. This parent’s opinion is that size doesn’t and shouldn’t matter and was pressing me to explain more. Of course, he has a bigger kid. I’m thinking sure, easy for you to say. Your kid doesn’t have someone at least 5-7 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier going after him. He did concede that the top teams seem to be filled with bigger kids and size can mean more attention from coaches and being tracked earlier.
It's huge when the kids are younger when each child has different growth patterns. Size 100% matters. Some grow early and some grow late. My little girl grew late and was always the smallest and kicked to the ground or pushed. Refs were lousy at times making calls when it was obvious the bigger girls would just knock my kid to the grown and get away with it. It was the only way for big kid to play and if refs don;t call fouls, our small kids are in a disadvantage and can get hurt. It will even out later when big kid goes to the bench.....lol! I will say whenever my dd had a good game in the youngers, it was when refs called the game tight and yellow card on hackers on my dd were called quickly. My dd got fouled all the time
I think you are correct. Flight 1 team appears to be more even. Flight 2 & 3 teams that I saw have players with mixed skill level.
My expectation is for a coach or club to only form a team that consists of everyone at the same level but I guess it is easier said than implemented. It surprises me that it really up to the parents to decide which team to join (I understand it is an exaggeration but in reality there is a chance the best flight 3 player can be better than the worst flight 2 player).
Thank you for the explanation. Your first paragraph clears some of my confusion when I watch some games. It could be the team, the players, size, etc. There is no one explanation why a team is flight 1 or gold.
Your second paragraph kind of brings more questions. Which one is the official league? Why Can't USSOCCER just approve a league for each tier per geographic region? If private investor wants to create separate league/tournament then it is fine but at least there is one "approved/sanctioned" league like Division 1,2,3 in pro soccer.
I live in a big city so there are several clubs/academies. Kids sign up to join clubs to train but there is no guarantee to be part of a team. The clubs usually have first team/second/third team that joins an age group league.
Kids who never got picked to a team eventually quits. They would sometimes play local events (similar to ayso) or school tournaments that are loosely organized.
Big difference is that there is no independent "team/coach". Everyone signs up to a club then the club decides who gets in the team.
the European football authorities have declined to press uniformity on us (there might also be legal issues with that in this country too). To the extent there’s an “official”top tier, on the boys side it is mls because that’s where the pro team academies are
the org split actually begins with the bigger org that first really helped soccer take off: ayso. Ayso has resisted turning over its authority and submitting to the other entities. It’s tried to create its own independent tiered system with ayso United (which plays club) extras, all stars, core and vip, but ayso jealously guards the way it does things, most importantly with its everyone plays philosophy. It was the insistence in the 80s and early 90s that everyone plays in the same tier that led to things spinning off and the great migration into club. Insisting that the future pro (who couldn’t get the ball passed to them and therefore couldn’t develop) and the handicapped kid (who, kids being smart, never got the ball) led to frustration all around so this ad hoc tiered system we have now developed chaotically in response.
Soccer is a game about mistakes. If the teams were evenly matched skill wise and the players well coached on mistakes appropriate to their age, games would normally overwhelming end tied or with a 1 point difference. You couldn’t have any one team dominate their particular bracket and leagues would be decided by a handful of points. But instead we have mismatches which happen becomes teams have players that aren’t appropriately placed for their division, or which are used as filler by weaker teams to collect the pay check because they can’t recruit better players. It’s made worse in leagues with pro/rel because you can only advance if you have players on the team which aren’t well placed and should be playing for higher level teams. Because soccers governance is divided among various leagues and orgs there’s no way to impose uniformity. If we had one big brother org a way to do it would be to give players rankings and only allow them to play in appropriate tiers or up, but no one (least of all the parents which are the paying customers) would like that.