Is club soccer a waste of time/money for youngers (under 10 yo)?

[Grace T.]

I knew a violinist who went to an ivy-league equivalent and graduated with honors as a music major, then played in orchestras, founded a non-profit, and taught high school music. The equivalent amount of time she invested in playing violin was less than what was required for a kid who ultimately got recruited to play soccer at a local CSU but didn't even get a soccer degree at the end. Are you arguing in favor of Soccer as the path or are you arguing that there are definitely better ones? Are you agreeing that soccer is a waste of time in relation to other school-oriented things if they aren't going to play in college?

I knew quite a few athletes that actually got into an Ivy League school and probably wouldn't have been there if the athletic track wasn't part of the equation. I also know a handful of athletes that are on "academic" or "financial aid" scholarships for their respective private high schools that probably wouldn't have gotten in and/or been able to afford the high school but for their focus on athletics. There are too many variables to come to a clear answer. But here are the questions.

-Does this kid want to go to college or not (playing AYSO is certainly not going to take you pro, which is admittedly for a small handful of kids only)?
-What track is the kid best suited for?
-Where do they want to go to college?
-What major is the kid pursuing?
-How much does the kid like soccer?
-How good are they really?
-What else have they got going for them?
-How much is scholarship money a consideration (for some poorer families it may be a big one)?

I agree that if the player is not looking to go on the athletic route into college and is very interested in going to a good school (not just a safety) and/or needs the scholarship that, at least in high school, playing at a very high level travel ball is probably a waste of time and money, since playing more local is enough to check the "well rounded" and "does a sport" box and, particularly if the kid is applying to private school, the time is probably better spent on something that will actually catch the admission's committee eye as something that will carry on in college.

 

[Woodwork]

I knew quite a few athletes that actually got into an Ivy League school and probably wouldn't have been there if the athletic track wasn't part of the equation. I also know a handful of athletes that are on "academic" or "financial aid" scholarships for their respective private high schools that probably wouldn't have gotten in and/or been able to afford the high school but for their focus on athletics. There are too many variables to come to a clear answer. But here are the questions.

-Does this kid want to go to college or not (playing AYSO is certainly not going to take you pro, which is admittedly for a small handful of kids only)?
-What track is the kid best suited for?
-Where do they want to go to college?
-What major is the kid pursuing?
-How much does the kid like soccer?
-How good are they really?
-What else have they got going for them?
-How much is scholarship money a consideration (for some poorer families it may be a big one)?

I agree that if the player is not looking to go on the athletic route into college and is very interested in going to a good school (not just a safety) and/or needs the scholarship that, at least in high school, playing at a very high level travel ball is probably a waste of time and money, since playing more local is enough to check the "well rounded" and "does a sport" box and, particularly if the kid is applying to private school, the time is probably better spent on something that will actually catch the admission's committee eye as something that will carry on in college.

Let's get real about where ECNL players go by and large. Here is a non-Blues non-Surf local ECNL class of 2020 list:

Grambling State University
University of Arizona
Sonoma State University
Adams State University
University of New Mexico
University of Houston
The Masters University
Cal Baptist University
Cal State San Marcos
Cal State Fullerton
UC Riverside
Trinity Christian College
Trinity Christian College
Northwest Missouri State Univ

In the soccer sense, it is a huge accomplishment to get to play soccer at any of these places. Very impressive. And these are good colleges - so I don't mean to take that away from them. Great places to go. But let's not pretend that $36,000 saved, a 3.7, and student body and debate team doesn't get you to these places without ECNL. And Ivy league isn't the be-all-end-all (overrated in my experience), but none of these are in that range.

Let's imagine 15 hours per week put into math, music, debate, extra credit in school instead of club soccer and the money put into an account.

 

[Multi Sport]

Let's get real about where ECNL players go by and large. Here is a non-Blues non-Surf local ECNL class of 2020 list:

Grambling State University
University of Arizona
Sonoma State University
Adams State University
University of New Mexico
University of Houston
The Masters University
Cal Baptist University
Cal State San Marcos
Cal State Fullerton
UC Riverside
Trinity Christian College
Trinity Christian College
Northwest Missouri State Univ

In the soccer sense, it is a huge accomplishment to get to play soccer at any of these places. Very impressive. And these are good colleges - so I don't mean to take that away from them. Great places to go. But let's not pretend that $36,000 saved, a 3.7, and student body and debate team doesn't get you to these places without ECNL. And Ivy league isn't the be-all-end-all (overrated in my experience), but none of these are in that range.

Let's imagine 15 hours per week put into math, music, debate, extra credit in school instead of club soccer and the money put into an account.

My daughter was recruited by two of those schools. She didn't play ECNL.

She was 4.0 all four years.

So what the school sees is an academic scholarship backed by an athletic scholarship. The more they can give in academic money the more they have available in athletic money to give to the kid who doesn't have a strong academic record.

 

[Woodwork]

My daughter was recruited by two of those schools. She didn't play ECNL.

She was 4.0 all four years.

So what the school sees is an academic scholarship backed by an athletic scholarship. The more they can give in academic money the more they have available in athletic money to give to the kid who doesn't have a strong academic record.

I went to a school like this and had a 3.2 and student aid, got work experience, and didn't have to play soccer. We are giving too much credit to soccer here.

 

[Grace T.]

Let's get real about where ECNL players go by and large. Here is a non-Blues non-Surf local ECNL class of 2020 list:

Grambling State University
University of Arizona
Sonoma State University
Adams State University
University of New Mexico
University of Houston
The Masters University
Cal Baptist University
Cal State San Marcos
Cal State Fullerton
UC Riverside
Trinity Christian College
Trinity Christian College
Northwest Missouri State Univ

In the soccer sense, it is a huge accomplishment to get to play soccer at any of these places. Very impressive. And these are good colleges - so I don't mean to take that away from them. Great places to go. But let's not pretend that $36,000 saved, a 3.7, and student body and debate team doesn't get you to these places without ECNL. And Ivy league isn't the be-all-end-all (overrated in my experience), but none of these are in that range.

Let's imagine 15 hours per week put into math, music, debate, extra credit in school instead of club soccer and the money put into an account.

For UC Riverside actually (public school so it's more of a formula and student body/debate/soccer don't really matter as much on the application other than check the boxes), an unweighted 3.7 is probably not enough to get in. Indeed, your state of residence is probably more impactful than the activities you do.

 

[Woodwork]

For UC Riverside actually (public school so it's more of a formula and student body/debate/soccer don't really matter as much on the application other than check the boxes), an unweighted 3.7 is probably not enough to get in. Indeed, your state of residence is probably more impactful than the activities you do.

I picked 3.7 because that is precisely the median for UC Riverside, weighted. I love UCR, but only UC Merced is less selective. (And I hope it stays accessible.)

 

[Grace T.]

I picked 3.7 because that is precisely the median for UC Riverside, weighted. I love UCR, but only UC Merced is less selective. (And I hope it stays accessible.)

I show the average is 3.85 weighted, and that's before you throw out the out of staters, legacies, donors, employee preferences, and sports and art recruits.

 

[Woodwork]

I show the average is 3.85 weighted, and that's before you throw out the out of staters, legacies, donors, employee preferences, and sports and art recruits.

Does that support that spending $36,000 on ECNL and devoting 15 hours a week to ECNL is worth it, from a college admissions perspective?

 

[Grace T.]

Does that support that spending $36,000 on ECNL and devoting 15 hours a week to ECNL is worth it, from a college admissions perspective?

Again, depends on a variety of circumstances. If you only have a 3.7 weighted gpa, don't qualify as another preference (e.g., legacy, celebrity, donor, equity [they aren't supposed to use affirmative action but there's heated debate over how much factors such as race and gender play a role]), reside in the US in California, state a popular major as your interest (say pre-med), and really want to go to UC Riverside, and want to play soccer in college, maybe. The college admissions process is one big game that you have to game, so it boils down to where the individual student is situated.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

Let's get real about where ECNL players go by and large. Here is a non-Blues non-Surf local ECNL class of 2020 list:

Grambling State University
University of Arizona
Sonoma State University
Adams State University
University of New Mexico
University of Houston
The Masters University
Cal Baptist University
Cal State San Marcos
Cal State Fullerton
UC Riverside
Trinity Christian College
Trinity Christian College
Northwest Missouri State Univ

In the soccer sense, it is a huge accomplishment to get to play soccer at any of these places. Very impressive. And these are good colleges - so I don't mean to take that away from them. Great places to go. But let's not pretend that $36,000 saved, a 3.7, and student body and debate team doesn't get you to these places without ECNL. And Ivy league isn't the be-all-end-all (overrated in my experience), but none of these are in that range.

Let's imagine 15 hours per week put into math, music, debate, extra credit in school instead of club soccer and the money put into an account.

I feel you are largely right on this. But not for the money thing. Being on the guys side nobody we know was/is thinking atletic scholarship $. That is on the table only for a very small handful, many of whom will be coming from overseas. But the time budget is exactly right IMO. You take the time spent doing club soccer and funnel it into a distribution of extracurriculars between the arts and sport and, sure, set up a paper tiger non-profit, get the good grades and the spectrum of schools that a kid will be competitive for increases. It's really a question of how much does the kid like to play, and, at the end of the day, is it possible to fit the right academic/athletic fit. That last bit can be challenging. But for a number of schools on your list up there they will get a good value education that will be a good springboard. So for the athletes who landed those opportunities, good for them. The spreadsheet may not balance, but in the end that is not really the point.

And since the UCs came up, one thing a parent can do to help with how the UC GPA and overall AIS is computed is to make sure the student loads their AP credits into the sophomore and junior year. AP credit as freshman or senior will not count.

 

[Woodwork]

Again, depends on a variety of circumstances. If you only have a 3.7 weighted gpa, don't qualify as another preference (e.g., legacy, celebrity, donor, equity [they aren't supposed to use affirmative action but there's heated debate over how much factors such as race and gender play a role]), reside in the US in California, state a popular major as your interest (say pre-med), and really want to go to UC Riverside, and want to play soccer in college, maybe. The college admissions process is one big game that you have to game, so it boils down to where the individual student is situated.

You don't think that $36,000 in-pocket and 15 hours towards getting a 3.5 or 3.6 unweighted instead of soccer isn't a better idea? You would tell this cusp family to spend $36,000 on soccer and have the kid put in 15 hours per week?

 

[GT45]

So, if I paid $100,000 for my kid to be on the team you describe, you would say I didn't overpay?

$100,000 is not the cost of youth soccer.

A happy child who develops life skills that lead her to a successful adulthood. What is the price of that?

 

[Woodwork]

I feel you are largely right on this. But not for the money thing. Being on the guys side nobody we know was/is thinking atletic scholarship $. That is on the table only for a very small handful, many of whom will be coming from overseas. But the time budget is exactly right IMO. You take the time spent doing club soccer and funnel it into a distribution of extracurriculars between the arts and sport and, sure, set up a paper tiger non-profit, get the good grades and the spectrum of schools that a kid will be competitive for increases. It's really a question of how much does the kid like to play, and, at the end of the day, is it possible to fit the right academic/athletic fit. That last bit can be challenging. But for a number of schools on your list up there they will get a good value education that will be a good springboard. So for the athletes who landed those opportunities, good for them. The spreadsheet may not balance, but in the end that is not really the point.

And since the UCs came up, one thing a parent can do to help with how the UC GPA and overall AIS is computed is to make sure the student loads their AP credits into the sophomore and junior year. AP credit as freshman or senior will not count.

Right. I'm not trying to take away from the enjoyment of soccer. But the original question is really two questions. One about a waste of time and the other about a waste of money. How you spend your time can be justified by enjoyment. But in terms of a value proposition, club soccer is trying to justify its cost in some cases with college access. It rarely adds up.

 

[Woodwork]

$100,000 is not the cost of youth soccer.

A happy child who develops life skills that lead her to a successful adulthood. What is the price of that?

But Soccer (sport) has tremendous value that cannot be quantified in dollars. My team provides a place for your child to be happy and develop life skills that lead to a successful adulthood. I am inviting your child to the team. The cost for my team is $100,000.

Or is that too much for your child? Trust me, you can't get these life skills and happiness for free. Look at that poor clubless child, with no future. You don't want that to be your child do you?

 

[GT45]

I went to a school like this and had a 3.2 and student aid, got work experience, and didn't have to play soccer. We are giving too much credit to soccer here.

Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy playing soccer. Geez. The fact that you were clearly not an athlete is why you seem to lack an understanding of the joy of sport.

Also, not everything is about money to others. Seems it is to you though.

 

[GT45]

But Soccer (sport) has tremendous value that cannot be quantified in dollars. My team provides a place for your child to be happy and develop life skills that lead to a successful adulthood. I am inviting your child to the team. The cost for my team is $100,000.

Or is that too much for your child? Trust me, you can't get these life skills and happiness for free. Look at that poor clubless child, with no future. You don't want that to be your child do you?

No, I don't. Your sentences are word salad. But, I want a kid who enjoys life, chooses something they are passionate about (soccer in this case) learns life lessons, learns teammwork, makes friends, travels, creates memories. Those are more valuable then sitting in front of their computer for hours on end trying to get slightly better grades. You keep throwing $100,000 around as hyperbole. I am not impressed. You are a money focused person. Spend some. Enjoy life.

 

[Woodwork]

Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy playing soccer. Geez. The fact that you were clearly not an athlete is why you seem to lack an understanding of the joy of sport.

Also, not everything is about money to others. Seems it is to you though.

I played soccer my whole life. In fields. On the street. In the hallway. On the bridge. I just don't remember so many trolls on the bridge trying to charge me for it.

Just be cause something is invaluable doesn't mean you pay whatever it takes. Sometimes that means it should always be free.

 

[Woodwork]

No, I don't. Your sentences are word salad. But, I want a kid who enjoys life, chooses something they are passionate about (soccer in this case) learns life lessons, learns teammwork, makes friends, travels, creates memories. Those are more valuable then sitting in front of their computer for hours on end trying to get slightly better grades. You keep throwing $100,000 around as hyperbole. I am not impressed. You are a money focused person. Spend some. Enjoy life.

You are calling your own words a salad. But we could all eat some salad and be better for it.

 

[GT45]

I played soccer my whole life. In fields. On the street. In the hallway. On the bridge. I just don't remember so many trolls on the bridge trying to charge me for it.

Just be cause something is invaluable doesn't mean you pay whatever it takes. Sometimes that means it should always be free.

This is your sentence: "I went to a school like this and had a 3.2 and student aid, got work experience, and didn't have to play soccer."

Like I said, most people who play actually enjoy it.

The cost benefit is worth it to me. If it is not for you, then tell you kid(s) they cannot play anymore. Your choice.

 

[GT45]

You are calling your own words a salad. But we could all eat some salad and be better for it.

You changed my statement. C'mon. Have an honest conversation here. I am not the one throwing around cost of teams at $100,000.

I am leaving this conversation to spare others from this dialogue. You are obsessed with money. Not my cup of tea.