Is club soccer a waste of time/money for youngers (under 10 yo)?

[Grace T.]

So, say one of these kids on the team with college options I described. Kid has a 3.5 GPA. Kid's time is pushed to the max with soccer and school. Do you encourage him/her to pull back on soccer (not quit, just less time commitment) and put more time into study or keep at it because of sunk costs?

Don't know how often I can say it...it's situational. If they pull back from a higher level team, recruitment might be off the table (it's not happening say in an AYSO united silver team)? What's holding the kid back in grades (just because the kid puts in the time doesn't mean that they are going to be raised) and how locked in is the gpa at this point? How wedded are they to UC Riverside and what are the other public/private options? How are they interested in spending their time in both high school and college? What else they got going on? Are they a white, upper middle class girl from Los Angeles California who wants to go pre-med, or a Latino first gen. college guy from the barrio in Phoenix that wants to major in Arabic?

You seem to be saying it's never worth it, while I'm saying sometimes it is...the better argument is where in between that line is drawn for which there's substantial room for disagreement

 

[Woodwork]

Given how the conversation has unwound, for what its worth, I don't think you were trying to say enjoyment, all that, is not important. Having been through the full youth soccer ride, aphorisms and all, I follow what you are saying perfectly. Way I see it, if a kid is still in it by U19 its because they love the game. The thing you posted earlier about sometime kids having to choose-academics or sport-that a balance accommodating both can be difficult-rang true for me and is along the lines of what I was trying to say earlier. Not just difficult-painful. I see this with kids on my son's team. Choices in schools that should seem exciting, a fruit of labor, if soccer is not also a possibility are viewed almost with resignation. The one thing I was trying to say was that at the outset I never would have thought of that.

Incredibly insightful and articulate. Thank you.

 

[Woodwork]

Don't know how often I can say it...it's situational. If they pull back from a higher level team, recruitment might be off the table (it's not happening say in an AYSO united silver team)? What's holding the kid back in grades (just because the kid puts in the time doesn't mean that they are going to be raised) and how locked in is the gpa at this point? How wedded are they to UC Riverside and what are the other public/private options? How are they interested in spending their time in both high school and college? What else they got going on? Are they a white, upper middle class girl from Los Angeles California who wants to go pre-med, or a Latino first gen. college guy from the barrio in Phoenix that wants to major in Arabic?

You seem to be saying it's never worth it, while I'm saying sometimes it is...the better argument is where in between that line is drawn for which there's substantial room for disagreement

I'm not saying it's never worth it, but I would never presume to be able to identify the next Gyasi Zardes. I can't tell the college soccer aspirants that they will be better off taking any kind of a GPA hit over dialing soccer back by 5 hours a week and attending free after school tutoring in the problem class.

Maybe I'm old school, but I see applying pressure to do the not-fun thing for a better future as my job as an adult. Yes, there is some balance, but the balance has to skew academic. To the extent club soccer improves my kid in various ways, such as discipline, sacrifice, confidence, team-work, that all needs to come together to helping her in her number one job for the next 7-8 years. If soccer works against that, then it needs to take a back seat.

 

[Grace T.]

I'm not saying it's never worth it, but I would never presume to be able to identify the next Gyasi Zardes. I can't tell the college soccer aspirants that they will be better off taking any kind of a GPA hit over dialing soccer back by 5 hours a week and attending free after school tutoring in the problem class.

Maybe I'm old school, but I see applying pressure to do the not-fun thing for a better future as my job as an adult. Yes, there is some balance, but the balance has to skew academic. To the extent club soccer improves my kid in various ways, such as discipline, sacrifice, confidence, team-work, that all needs to come together to helping her in her number one job for the next 7-8 years. If soccer works against that, then it needs to take a back seat.

Ok but two sub points: interesting you assume there’s free tutoring in the problem class (for many students in California there isn’t and sometimes it’s subpar such as the honors kids trying to tutor the strugglers….doesn’t make them good teachers).

second, pre covid at least, grades test scores and school attended were the biggest drivers on the academic track for California public schools. That’s not true of private schools where most also evaluate you on your extracurricular and social skills (one of the biggest mistake some students face applying to elite private schools is they think they need to exclusively on grades and when it comes to the essay or interview question about the most interesting party you attended or what’s your ideal roommate they have nothing to say).

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I've heard $2500 / 6 months. Is that accurate?

I think for the youngers, a good estimate is around $2000 for club fees and another $1000 or so for tournaments, ref fees, uniforms, etc.
$3000 per year seems to be a good total amount to estimate for <u10 and add a little more each year.
All that is before any food and lodging cost if going out of town for tournaments but that's variable per family...

Talking to some parents with older kids on the team, ECNL/ECRL seems to run roughly $5000 but maybe parents with ECNL kids here can chime in there.

I haven't heard what a DA for girls and MLS Next for boys cost.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Here's my guess. Strikers will be cheaper on the girls side and more on the boys side. I spoke to a little stud MLS kid and asked him straight up, "hey bro, ECNL or MLS for boys. He said said MLS 100% and smiled. Great kid. Liverpool is slightly more next season and Blues will charge more. I used to get a can of beans for $.99 and now a can of beans is $1.49. Prices will go up like anything and club soccer will go up to play in socal.

Seems like $500 increase for most teams. I've heard around that for big clubs like Strikers, Legends, Pats, Blues. I guess exact increase depends on age group but yea across board increase for most clubs/teams.

 

[watfly]

Is it worth in terms of a financial return (aka scholarship)? No, its a terrible investment. It's rare for the kids that play soccer for there to be any form of financial return. Whether you get services worth $3,000+ is in the eye of the beholder. If your only interested in a return on your money start a 529 when they are born and put all the money you would have put in to the club sport in the 529. You'll be able to afford an Ivy League when they're 18.

Of course, there are a million other reasons it may be worth it unrelated to a financial return.

In terms of soccer skills, like I said before, have them play futsal (or small sided games) until at least 10-12 years old.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

My U15 son has played club soccer since U7. Dabbled in a few other sports when he was younger, but otherwise was full time competitive soccer with DA and MLS Next. He was a starter on his MLS Next team and just quit. Would have liked him to finish out the season but given the circumstances with the 3rd new coach this season there was no point in staying. He was likely on a trajectory where he could have played college soccer on a scholarship, but we were never planning that as an outcome. The DOC of the club and an old coach who is now at another club are trying hard to convince him to not quit soccer as they claim he has a bright future. He's not persuaded at all. He was never passionate about soccer and played because he was good. He handles pressure just fine, but doesn't like it. He felt a lot of pressure from his coaches. It stopped being fun.

I think in some ways the term "burnout" is overused. As you mention, I think other opportunities and interests play a roll in that as well, particularly as kids go to high school. He will be going next year and plans to play football, basketball and golf, when he is not skating, surfing, snowboarding or hanging with friends. It takes a different sort of kid to stick with soccer. I was super bummed when he quit, but just I few weeks later I can say I'm enjoying having my weekends back and I have a new buddy for the slopes.

One thing I will say about club coaches. Most are very knowledgeable about soccer, but very few know how to teach, communicate and motivate kids.

Thanks for the insight into the future. I look at my son and think he's a little kid but before I know it, he's gonna want to take my car out and hang out with girls...

Looking back, high school was so much fun. It really does take a different sort of kid who finds soccer more fun than staying out late on Friday night and not having to worry about waking at 7a to spend the Saturday in Norco.

Enjoy your soccer parent retirement sir.

 

[crush]

I think for the youngers, a good estimate is around $2000 for club fees and another $1000 or so for tournaments, ref fees, uniforms, etc.
$3000 per year seems to be a good total amount to estimate for <u10 and add a little more each year.
All that is before any food and lodging cost if going out of town for tournaments but that's variable per family...

Talking to some parents with older kids on the team, ECNL/ECRL seems to run roughly $5000 but maybe parents with ECNL kids here can chime in there.

I haven't heard what a DA for girls and MLS Next for boys cost.

I had two types of friends in the glory days of club soccer. Those with a lot of extra $$ and those who were struggling to pay the bills every month. It was like two classes of people. Put it on the Credit card is what one of pals had to do for his dd the last 5 years. She got all her college paid for with good grades and soccer skills this year, but pops sure had to pay a lot of money the last 5 years to get the deal. I'm trying to get him to come clean with how much the last five years cost him. The other friend spent about $17K+ a year no problem. I got in trouble a few years ago because I refused to stay at expensive hotel on the road that was mandated by the club for me to pay so my dd could play and be seen. I told them no and my kid was on the bench for the weekend. Doc stayed in a presidential suite and my wife and I stayed at air b & b and got ripped for it by the ruling class. Insane TMs snitching on me for not paying my fair share and not eating expensive dinners with the other soccer families.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Puberty has a huge impact. I have seen kids who were far and away the superstars at 12 years old. Same core team as seniors in high school, and those top 12 years olds were average at best on the team. The kids on the bench at 12 years old were some of the best players as seniors in HS, and went on to play college soccer. The reason the stars at 12 years old were so successful then is because they hit their peak growth before everyone else. They were bigger and stronger than their peers. The others hit their growth spurts later, and surpassed those players.

Puberty can also take away a players pace. A once fast player, sometimes loses that speed when puberty hits.

The bigger and faster kids who depended on that at the younger ages also tend to focus less on developing necessary technical skills because they could simply run by kids. The smaller kids got nothing else to lean on so they had to be good with the ball. And if they grow later, they've got superior ball skills and now also able to keep up physically.

Guess there is always the super athletic kid who is also good with the ball. Can't beat DNA + work ethic.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I got in trouble a few years ago because I refused to stay at expensive hotel on the road that was mandated by the club for me to pay so my dd could play and be seen. I told them no and my kid was on the bench for the weekend. Doc stayed in a presidential suite and my wife and I stayed at air b & b and got ripped for it by the ruling class. Insane TMs snitching on me for not paying my fair share and not eating expensive dinners with the other soccer families.

How does this work bro? I don't have to go out of state yet cause my kids are in the youngers. But eventually there will be tournaments/games in Vegas or AZ or TX...

Say I have family, properties, or timeshare in these out of state locations that I can stay in for free... I still have to pay for the team hotel?
That could easily add up to $1000+ trip. That would piss me off a little... (or a lot)

 

[Jamisfoes]

I have seen different clubs train. They all do rondo. All the same drills. The only reason for club vs AYSO is the level of competition. By age 8, there are zero good players left in AYSO. All the good kids have moved on to clubs.

 

[crush]

How does this work bro? I don't have to go out of state yet cause my kids are in the youngers. But eventually there will be tournaments/games in Vegas or AZ or TX...

Say I have family, properties, or timeshare in these out of state locations that I can stay in for free... I still have to pay for the team hotel?
That could easily add up to $1000+ trip. That would piss me off a little... (or a lot)

Pay and stay or no play bro. If you have a hard core team manager that knows all the gossip and has spies, you will get in trouble for not obeying the rules. They force you to pay so you stay at $179+ hotel a night or no play for your kid. It's not about winning anymore after 7th grade, it's about paying more and kissing the Docs ass so he can give your child a good recommendation to the coaches on your Childs behalf.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

the criteria on who is "good" and who is "not so" are much more identifiable and objective in every other sport, and the time invested vs. improvement rate is much better in every other sport

Haha this is so true. I was trying to get my kid to play golf for this reason. No teammate drama. No drama of a coach favoring one kid over another. Low score wins. No confusion on "who is best" in a tournament because it's so objective in golf.

Sadly, he'd rather play soccer than golf.
Not sadly, competitive golf is VERY expensive (way more so than club soccer) so I guess I'm glad??

 

[Carlsbad7]

Pay and stay or no play bro. If you have a hard core team manager that knows all the gossip and has spies, you will get in trouble for not obeying the rules. They force you to pay so you stay at $179+ hotel a night or no play for your kid. It's not about winning anymore after 7th grade, it's about paying more and kissing the Docs ass so he can give your child a good recommendation to the coaches on your Childs behalf.

So true, sadly a bad team manager can hold back a team as much or even worse than a bad coach.

The worst is when the team managers kid isn't performing + they're playing to social game to compensate + trying to bring other players down to their kids level.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

But this whole experience makes me realize that it's better to have the kid do something he likes, you just provide the environment and he does all the work because he wants to.

This is way too level-headed for this forum.




(Haha jk, good perspective for sure.)

 

[Grace T.]

How does this work bro? I don't have to go out of state yet cause my kids are in the youngers. But eventually there will be tournaments/games in Vegas or AZ or TX...

Say I have family, properties, or timeshare in these out of state locations that I can stay in for free... I still have to pay for the team hotel?
That could easily add up to $1000+ trip. That would piss me off a little... (or a lot)

Yes, but what's even worse is that sometimes if you go to Vegas they force you to stay at hotels that you might hate (the Luxor or Circus Circus for me).

I have seen different clubs train. They all do rondo. All the same drills. The only reason for club vs AYSO is the level of competition. By age 8, there are zero good players left in AYSO. All the good kids have moved on to clubs.

The question on the rondos isn't whether they do rondos but which (there are many including 1/4 sided and 1/2 sided), with whom and how (e.g., with how much intensity) do they do the rondos. If the team is spending all it's time doing rondos and they are over 10 years old get out fast (coach does not know what he's doing). The good AYSO kids don't only move onto club but also other sports, which also are pressuring specialization. When my niece was going up the ranks it was 12, when the kid was going up the rank it was 10, so if it's 8 now there's been an acceleration.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I think one needs to define waste.

Will playing rec soccer at age 10 and under likely slow your kid's developmental progress if they continue after age 10 and desire to play competitive soccer? Yes, likely.

Will that difference matter in their life when they are 50 years old? Probably not.

Is that worth the extra money? Only you can figure that out.

I should have defined that.

Waste purely in terms of soccer development vs doing something else related to soccer.

So the question of in terms of ball skills, spatial awareness, off the ball movement, soccer IQ, etc, which paths will yield a better soccer player by the time they're 12 years old (or just before puberty):

1) club soccer from 7-12 years old. $3-5000/year. lots of driving all over socal for league games and tournaments.

2) local futsal program $100/mo. rec or rec+/signature $200-500/year in addition to futsal. maybe play different sport with the time/money "left over" from not having to go to all the club games far away.

 

[Jamisfoes]

The question on the rondos isn't whether they do rondos but which (there are many including 1/4 sided and 1/2 sided), with whom and how (e.g., with how much intensity) do they do the rondos. If the team is spending all it's time doing rondos and they are over 10 years old get out fast (coach does not know what he's doing). The good AYSO kids don't only move onto club but also other sports, which also are pressuring specialization. When my niece was going up the ranks it was 12, when the kid was going up the rank it was 10, so if it's 8 now there's been an acceleration.

We are in a big AYSO that fielded 16 teams/age group in fall. This spring season is the worst I have seen. So many 8 year olds that can't dribble a straight line.

 

[D8958]

We are in a big AYSO that fielded 16 teams/age group in fall. This spring season is the worst I have seen. So many 8 year olds that can't dribble a straight line.

Covid, no doubt about it, same kids that went in to fall 2019 as U6 players, that didn't get any soccer for two years, came in to U8 fall 2021 looking like they were still in U6.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Let's imagine 15 hours per week put into math, music, debate, extra credit in school instead of club soccer and the money put into an account.

I can't speak for how much high level math and debate tutors cost... and costs to attend national competitions and all that...

But for music, there will be no money left over to put into an account when compared to soccer...
Youth music at the highest levels is extremely expensive... (all the private lessons required)